Super tech full synthetic HM versus Mobil1 HM 5w-30

[Starving Electrician]

Hydrocracked Group III bases are not "highly refined crude oil", they are synthesized all day. You are the one who knows little about chemistry and compounds, and are falling for Internet lore and misconceptions.

Blatantly cool story though.

Look I realize now I came at you guns hot in my last response. Probably a bit too harsh. Many people including myself believe incorrect things, but end of the day according to the API and sound reasoning group 3 oils are highly refined crude oil.

Since the API defines the categories they are the ones to go with. Groups 1, 2, and 3 are all refined crude with increasing levels of refinement. That is point blank there is no arguing.

 

[tblt44]

I do/will not use Mobil 1 HM anymore.
I choose Supertech

 

[kschachn]

Ohh cool so if a take crude oil refine it to a state in which all the molecules are the same size despite all the hydrocarbons in the oil being directly from crude it isn't just highly refined crude. Thats fascinating I guess if I pull all the impurities and let's say deuterium oxide out of water its now no longer water but some special synthetic water? Simply because I pulled out everything in the water that I didn't want?

Does that sound right? No it doesn't because it isn't. Group 3 oils are just that. It has all the bigger or smaller unwanted hydrocarbons and impurities pulled out and what's left is still a refined oil not a synthetic one. Like in the highly purified water example sure the impurities and heavy water is removed but it wasn't synthesized it was just refined.

It's not like the API classifies group 3 oils as mineral oil. Oh no they do. So the authority on the subject calls them mineral oil. Hmm I guess they have to be wrong too because you're obviously right random guy on a forum.

When your primary source of technical knowledge is the Internet, you need to be careful that it is accurate. Just because multiple websites make the same claim and include the same cool illustrations of oil molecules being ball bearings, that doesn't make it an accurate notion. There's no such thing here as "bigger or smaller unwanted hydrocarbons and impurities", this is not the definition of a synthetic stock. Hydrocracking is clearly synthesis, whether you wish to avail yourself of this information or not is up to you. But those scenic diagrams of uniform molecules has nothing to do with that.

API does not classify mineral or synthetic. In fact the Group designations are specifically agnostic towards method of production. It has been this way for decades, and rightly so. They are about performance not production method. Please show me where the API classifies any of the Groups as "mineral oil".

 

[Urshurak776]

For your use, doesn't matter to be honest. Pretty low useage. For the Honda (GDI Engine), best thing is frequent oil changes, which you're doing, so, save your money and go Kirkland/Supertech.

 

[Glenda W.]

Mobil offers 2 lower tiers between Supertech and Mobil 1. Then within the Mobil 1 lineup there’s many more higher tiers.

 

[Starving Electrician]

When your primary source of technical knowledge is the Internet, you need to be careful that it is accurate. Just because multiple websites make the same claim and include the same cool illustrations of oil molecules being ball bearings, that doesn't make it an accurate notion. There's no such thing here as "bigger or smaller unwanted hydrocarbons and impurities", this is not the definition of a synthetic stock. Hydrocracking is clearly synthesis, whether you wish to avail yourself of this information or not is up to you. But those scenic diagrams of uniform molecules has nothing to do with that.

API does not classify mineral or synthetic. In fact the Group designations are specifically agnostic towards method of production. It has been this way for decades, and rightly so. They are about performance not production method. Please show me where the API classifies any of the Groups as "mineral oil".

Fair I will admit they don't specifically say this is a mineral oil this isn't, but how specific does it need to be for you to say refined crude is still refined crude. Group 3 oils are not lab created like group 4 which are synthesized in a lab from ethylene gas i.e. not crude oil its generally from natural gas. Ethylene is one of the most simple hydrocarbons (might be the most simple) so its great for this.

Now you might say well they can get ethylene gas from crude oil. Which you can but here is the difference. Group 3 oils use hydrocracking to break down large hydrocarbons to smaller ones but never rearranging them. Group 4 oil processing makes new molecules by rejoining the molecules which is synthesizing. If I take water and purify it I have pure water. If I take water break it down to oxygen and hydrogen and then make hydrozene thats synthesized, because I end up with something new that was never in the base.

It is pretty simple man. Based on your arguments you must be a Castrol fan boy because only Castrol fans argue this hard for group 3 oils.

 

[kschachn]

Fair I will admit they don't specifically say this is a mineral oil this isn't, but how specific does it need to be for you to say refined crude is still refined crude. Group 3 oils are not lab created like group 4 which are synthesized in a lab from ethylene gas i.e. not crude oil its generally from natural gas. Ethylene is one of the most simple hydrocarbons (might be the most simple) so its great for this.

Now you might say well they can get ethylene gas from crude oil. Which you can but here is the difference. Group 3 oils use hydrocracking to break down large hydrocarbons to smaller ones but never rearranging them. Group 4 oil processing makes new molecules by rejoining the molecules which is synthesizing. If I take water and purify it I have pure water. If I take water break it down to oxygen and hydrogen and then make hydrozene thats synthesized, because I end up with something new that was never in the base.

It is pretty simple man. Based on your arguments you must be a Castrol fan boy because only Castrol fans argue this hard for group 3 oils.

You read a lot on the Internet for sure.

Nah, I am not a Castrol fan boy, if anything I tend towards ExxonMobil products because of the available price point of ESP at Walmart. I just try and stick to facts and reality rather than websites that show an oil film as marbles or ball bearings.

 

[Starving Electrician]

You read a lot on the Internet for sure.

Nah, I am not a Castrol fan boy, if anything I tend towards ExxonMobil products because of the available price point of ESP at Walmart. I just try and stick to facts and reality rather than websites that show an oil film as marbles or ball bearings.

First as far as facts go you are doing some Gabby Douglas levels of mental gymnastics to avoid accepting facts. Second no very little "reading on the internet". Well I suppose the API website is on the internet but as they define the base stock groups and are an official source im not going to count it as "reading a lot on the Internet" as that implies I trust unreliable sources. I have read API 1509 appendix E the document that defines what group 3 base stock is.

Which is just mineral oil that is greater than 90 percent saturates, less than .03 percent sulfur and a viscosity index of 120. Which according to you makes it synthetic. Interestingly group 2 oils have the same specs except a viscosity index between 80-120 is acceptable. Oh and group 2 base are generally produced by hydro cracking. So are group 2 oils synthetic? If you believe hydrocracking to be the magic that makes a highly refined crude a synthetic then group 2 should be a synthetic to you as well.

Look I get group 3 oils are allowed to be marketed as synthetic but that is a marketing thing not a reflection of reality. Group 3 base stocks are good solid quality oils, and I have no issues with them, but they are just refined crude oil that is a fact.

 

[OVERKILL]

First as far as facts go you are doing some Gabby Douglas levels of mental gymnastics to avoid accepting facts. Second no very little "reading on the internet". Well I suppose the API website is on the internet but as they define the base stock groups and are an official source im not going to count it as "reading a lot on the Internet" as that implies I trust unreliable sources. I have read API 1509 appendix E the document that defines what group 3 base stock is.

Which is just mineral oil that is greater than 90 percent saturates, less than .03 percent sulfur and a viscosity index of 120. Which according to you makes it synthetic. Interestingly group 2 oils have the same specs except a viscosity index between 80-120 is acceptable. Oh and group 2 base are generally produced by hydro cracking. So are group 2 oils synthetic? If you believe hydrocracking to be the magic that makes a highly refined crude a synthetic then group 2 should be a synthetic to you as well.

Look I get group 3 oils are allowed to be marketed as synthetic but that is a marketing thing not a reflection of reality. Group 3 base stocks are good solid quality oils, and I have no issues with them, but they are just refined crude oil that is a fact.

You are arguing with a chemist, FWIW.

As far as the groups go, recall that Shell's GTL bases, which are produced using the Fischer-Tropsch process and are never "crude", still fall under the Group III umbrella. This is the inherent issue of relying on the API "groups" for classification. Group IV only has PAO in it, that's it, no other base, Group V is "everything else", so that's AN's, Esters...etc. Are these synthetic? Does a base oil made from Canola get to be called synthetic because it's Group V?

 

[perkz]

If the OP is concerned about fuel dilution, wouldn't it be good to avoid thinner 5w30 oils and opt for thicker 5w30 oils?

I don't know the specs for Supertec HM Syn 5w30. Could someone post them?

Comparison 5w30 viscosity at KV100 (100C or 212F) based on manufacturers' published data:

Valvoline Maxlife Syn 10.7
*Valvoline Maxlife Blend 11
* Valvoline Full Syn EP HM 11
* Pennzoil Platinum HM Syn 11.4
Pennzoil HM Synthetic 10.5
* Pennzoil HM Blend 11.7
Quaker State HM Syn 10.8
*Quaker State HM Blend 11.1
Mobil One HM EP Syn 10 (thin for a 5w30, very thin for a HM 5w30)
*Castrol Edge HM Syn 11.3
Amsoil HM syn?
Supertec HM Syn ?

A 5w30 synthetic with a KV100 viscosity of less than 11 cSt is (IMO) too thin to be ideal for a HM oil. Also too thin if you're concerned about fuel dilution. It's ideal for it to be 11.5 to 12 for HM and/or for fuel dilution. A viscosity of 11 (medium) is ideal for non HM 5w30 oils. For a 5w30 HM oil 11 is less than ideal for syn, but acceptable. For a 5w30 HM Blend 11 is dandy, though higher would be even better. IMO

I'm currently using 5w30 Maxlife Blend with 11 cSt in my 97 Buick 3800, which has 105K miles on it. I'm happy with Maxlife Blend, but am considering using any of those listed above that have cSt above 11.

11 is the middle of grade 30 spec. So less than 11 is thinner than average. Greater than 11 is thicker than average, and that's for non HM 5w30. I think a HM 5w30 should ideally be above 11. IMO

I think a HM oil benefits from being thicker to reduce leaks and compensate for greater tolerances due to wear. A thicker oil would also help compensate for fuel dilution.

Edited in Later: It was just brought to my attention that the OP changed from 0w20 to 5w30 HM oil in a HM Honda CRV that's spec'd for 0w20. I misread the OP because I thought he's looking for 5w30 HM for an old Buick LeSabre 3800.

However, my info above is still (indirectly) relevant because the OP could use my info to choose a thicker 5w20 HM oil or thinner 5w30 HM oil.

SuperTech is 10.91. MAG1 is same Warren oil blend as Supertech and Kirkland . https://mag1.com/products/33/pds/

 

[Carlostrece]

SuperTech is 10.91. MAG1 is same Warren oil blend as Supertech and Kirkland . https://mag1.com/products/33/pds/

OK. 10.9 is a respectable starting viscosity for a Xw30.

 

[perkz]

Late reply, from a fellow LeSabre owner, get the Kirkland oil on sale for about $14 for 5 quarts. It happens twice a year like clockwork. Use OEM oil filter, and short OCI, and you are fine.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

I do/will not use Mobil 1 HM anymore.

Why not?

 

[tblt44]

Why not?

I had an increased oil leak on multiple vehicles after using it. Maybe cleaning to good around older seals.
Maybe not as good seal conditioners.
Not sure but I like Mobil 1 just not on higher milage cars

 

[Carlostrece]

Late reply, from a fellow LeSabre owner, get the Kirkland oil on sale for about $14 for 5 quarts. It happens twice a year like clockwork. Use OEM oil filter, and short OCI, and you are fine.

Is your OCI based on when the Costco sales happen? That isn't meant to be sarcastic. It sounds like some I would do. In fact, you may have just inspired me to do that.

 

[tolian21]

Is your OCI based on when the Costco sales happen? That isn't meant to be sarcastic. It sounds like some I would do. In fact, you may have just inspired me to do that.

You can purchase enough Kirkland when it goes on sales to last you or your family for a year. Cant beat $15 for 5qt when its on sale.

Maybe if you get Mobil1 with rebate it will also be $15

 

[Carlostrece]

You can purchase enough Kirkland when it goes on sales to last you or your family for a year. Cant beat $15 for 5qt when its on sale.

Maybe if you get Mobil1 with rebate it will also be $15

It's fun to imagine you writing the next Costco sale date on your oil change sticker and putting that on upper left of windshield. I'm making fun in a friendly way. It's not meant to be derisive. The idea appeals to me.

Personally, I don't stockpile oil. I buy it within a month of using it.