suggested oil for new Honda

[fdcg27]

I'd use the 0W-20 that Honda recommends.
Honda has recommended twenty grades for years, so I'm sure that they've established that a 0W-20 will work just fine in this DI engine based on the proven K24.
You can register your car for both the QS and Pennzoil warranties and get a twenty dollar MIR each on Quaker State Ultimate Durability and Pennzoil Platinum 0w20.
The warranties mean nothing, but the rebates are nice.
I plan on running my '12 by the MM on 0W-20, although it is of course not a DI engine.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
My opinion is that you should run what Honda recommends at least until the warranty is up especially on a "new" engine design.

Isn't the 11 back specked to 0w20 as well?

No. The '11 was originally spec'd 0W-20, and that's what I run in my Accord VCM V6.I've told my tale in great detail, so anyone should be able to learn a lot about 0W-20 in this engine should they be interested in searching the used oil analysis section.

Bottom line is that my engine is performing as intended on 0W-20 with no consumption. It has seen only HG Full Synthetic since the FF. That said, I'd have no qualms whatsoever running xW-30 in it if I felt like it.

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: harrydog
I have also heard that Honda wants you to leave the factory fill in until oil life is down to about 15%.

Regardless of what viscosity I end up using, it will be a synthetic. I'm using Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 in my wife's Honda and was thinking about using that.

Hondas do tend to be fairly easy on oil I guess but then this is their first DI engine so I expect it to be a little tougher on the oil.


Fair concern about DI. Volk's DI Ecobeast tears up oil at about the 6K level, and the OLM doesn't seem to track it very well. Volk did a series of three UOA and learned something about his new car. So now he knows. A pretty good expenditure of $90 I would say. Why don't you order up a couple of used oil analysis at the 6K mark of your first change, then a second and then recalibrate? Three-to-one your new DI Honda trundles along just fine with 7K-8K oil changes. Its worth $60 or $90 not to worry about it over the life of the car.

I was impressed by the Honda break in oil approach. Ford doesn't explicitly endorse that, but they do suggest not changing the factory fill early. I have to think they build their engines similarly. I figure the "break in oil" old wive's tail is actually slightly more plausible than the "get the iron filings out of your new engine!" old wives tail. So I ended up compromising: I changed the oil about 500 miles after I "felt" the break-in which in my car was 4K of city driving. 40% on OLM. Probably still too early.

 

[harrydog]

I plan on keeping this car for a long time so I want to do what's best for the engine but I can't help thinking that better MPG is the main reason that Honda specifies 0w-20.

On the other hand, I hear some of you saying that the 0w oils tend to use better base stocks than 5w oils. If that's true then the data sheets should bear that out. I haven't checked any other data sheets but the Amsoil Signature Series 5w-20 does better in the NOACK volatility test compared to their 0w-20.

I used 0w30 GC for a long time in my Subarus with good results but I don't know if that would be too thick of an oil for the Honda? I'd really like to use something with the ACEA A3 rating but again, that may be too thick of an oil for a modern Honda engine.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: harrydog
I plan on keeping this car for a long time so I want to do what's best for the engine but I can't help thinking that better MPG is the main reason that Honda specifies 0w-20.

Granted, the four is a much different engine from my VCM V6 but I wonder why you think you know what's better for your engine than the Honda engineers who designed it?

The whole Honda break-in\OCI program was foreign to me as well. In addition, I was seeing too many reports of excessive oil consumption, fouling plugs and even complete failures in the VCM engine. So, I decided to follow the factory recommendations to a 'T' , use only Honda Genuine Full Synthetic and do used oil analysis at each change to learn as much as I could about what is happening in this engine. I learned a lot.

For starters, the myth of a super break-in oil from the Honda factory is just that, a myth. The fact is, the FF does not have as good an add pack as the aftermarket COP-made Honda brand oil I'm using now. The one difference is that Honda has a process whereby their piston skirts are impregnated with moly that slowing dissolves into the oil. So FF used oil analysis will show elevated moly and Honda wants it in there for a full cycle because their engineers have determined that it is beneficial for the long term performance of their engines.

Secondly, I have proven to myself by testing used oil that Honda's MM. Does a very good job of predicting oil deg. We hit 15% at 6300 on FF and 6400 on the first load of HG. Based on the used oil analysis which showed some oil life left (as well as improving metals and fuel dilution) I will be taking future OCIs to 0% or about 8000 miles.

The car now has about 15,000 miles on it, runs great and burns zero oil. Bottom line? This old 3000 mile OCI guy has proven to himself that Honda knows what they're doing (big surprise, right?).

 

[harrydog]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: harrydog
I plan on keeping this car for a long time so I want to do what's best for the engine but I can't help thinking that better MPG is the main reason that Honda specifies 0w-20.

Granted, the four is a much different engine from my VCM V6 but I wonder why you think you know what's better for your engine than the Honda engineers who designed it?

The whole Honda break-in\OCI program was foreign to me as well. In addition, I was seeing too many reports of excessive oil consumption, fouling plugs and even complete failures in the VCM engine. So, I decided to follow the factory recommendations to a 'T' , use only Honda Genuine Full Synthetic and do used oil analysis at each change to learn as much as I could about what is happening in this engine. I learned a lot.

For starters, the myth of a super break-in oil from the Honda factory is just that, a myth. The fact is, the FF does not have as good an add pack as the aftermarket COP-made Honda brand oil I'm using now. The one difference is that Honda has a process whereby their piston skirts are impregnated with moly that slowing dissolves into the oil. So FF used oil analysis will show elevated moly and Honda wants it in there for a full cycle because their engineers have determined that it is beneficial for the long term performance of their engines.

Secondly, I have proven to myself by testing used oil that Honda's MM. Does a very good job of predicting oil deg. We hit 15% at 6300 on FF and 6400 on the first load of HG. Based on the used oil analysis which showed some oil life left (as well as improving metals and fuel dilution) I will be taking future OCIs to 0% or about 8000 miles.

The car now has about 15,000 miles on it, runs great and burns zero oil. Bottom line? This old 3000 mile OCI guy has proven to himself that Honda knows what they're doing (big surprise, right?).


I don't profess to know what's better for my engine than the Honda engineers, I'm just questioning the reason why they specify such a light weight oil. Do you really think that the engineers all allowed to design and specify everything without input from marketing and accounting? Everything is a compromise.
With gas prices being what they are these days, fuel efficiency is a major selling point.

I'm not even saying that using 0w-20 would be bad in any way other than possibly not providing as much wear protection in a hot, high revving engine. The HTHS ratings generally are a good indication of how well an oil will perform under those conditions and most 0w-20 oils do not have a particularly high HTHS number.

So, while I don't think I know more than the Honda engineers by any means, I do wonder if there is a better choice than 0w-20 if fuel efficiency is taken out of the equation. What better place to ask about that than here?

 

[fdcg27]

As another member is fond of pointing out, you need to know how hot the oil actually gets in use to determine what grade is appropriate.
The engine in your car has a decently high redline, like most four cylinder Hondas, but the car is also geared to cruise at very low revs.
I would think that the engineering folks have determined that a twenty grade oil provides a sufficient margin for any road operating conditions, and most modern cars have very good control of operating temperatures of both oil and coolant.
Track use would be a different matter, but they're probably aren't very many Accords that actually get tracked.

 

[mikefxu]

http://www.infineum.com/sitecollectiondocuments/notebooks/gf5/J Jetter Honda 042109.pdf

Honda knows what they are doing and invest millions in R&D, there are so many "Internet Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers" that think they know better.

We have a 2012 Civic and I follow the Maintenance Minder. Oil changes come around 10k and I use Bosch Distance Plus oil filters and whatever 0w-20 is on sale with it. Now at 30+k and still getting 35+ mpg city and 41+ mppg highway at 70mph.

I cannot find the pdf but there was a Honda document that indicate they would back date 0w-20 to some vehicles that were spec'ed for 5w-20.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: harrydog
[Do you really think that the engineers all allowed to design and specify everything without input from marketing and accounting?

Most manufacturers are "market driven" companies. In other words, they try to understand and even anticipate what the market wants. If you think marketing and accounting are dictating oil applications for specific engines, I think you're mistaken. But, Marketing may say, "The public wants better fuel economy and we understand lighter oils help. Can you design us a higher mileage engine using light oils without sacrificing the other performance parameters we've established?"

 

[harrydog]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: harrydog
[Do you really think that the engineers all allowed to design and specify everything without input from marketing and accounting?

Most manufacturers are "market driven" companies. In other words, they try to understand and even anticipate what the market wants. If you think marketing and accounting are dictating oil applications for specific engines, I think you're mistaken. But, Marketing may say, "The public wants better fuel economy and we understand lighter oils help. Can you design us a higher mileage engine using light oils without sacrificing the other performance parameters we've established?"

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that marketing and accounting were dictating oil applications. But like I said, everything is a compromise and there is no oil that is best at everything. If marketing wants better fuel economy and accounting is keeping an eye on costs, then choosing a lighter weight oil is one obvious way for the engineers to help achieve that. Long term durability could be affected to some degree. Would that matter to 99% of Honda buyers? Probably not. Very few people drive their cars for 200,000+ miles.
So I admit it's probably more academic than anything else but I still would like to know if an oil with a higher HTHS would provide better bearing protection.

 

[jimbrewer]

Do whatever they want during warranty and avoid very early oil changes. Pay for three straight used oil analysis and then you will know. That's the beauty of testing over speculating.

 

[bro]

Originally Posted By: harrydog
I'm about to buy a 2013 Honda Accord with the 2.4 direct injection engine. I believe Honda specifies 0w20 for all of their engines now but I'm having a hard time convincing myself that an 0w20 will offer the best wear protection.
My wife has a 2010 Accord with the 2.4 engine and Honda specifies 5w20 for that engine. I tend to drive my cars pretty hard and that combined with the the move to direct injection makes me really question the use of 0w20.
I know car manufacturers are trying for the best fuel economy possible as it is a big selling point with lots of people but a few mpg one way or the other makes no difference to me. I'm much more concerned with getting the best wear protection possible.
What do you all think?


In general, you want 0w-X oil for good flow at startup. The operating temperature viscosity (the second number) doesn't depend on whether it is 0w-20 or 5w-20 - it is the same. I think you should follow Honda's specification and use 0w-20. The one wild card is the direct injection. I have heard that some direct injection engines have had some issues with oil life. The prudent thing might be to change the oil at 6k miles intervals.

 

[Tones]

Oil monitor specifies 7.5 to 10k miles. If you intend to follow it, I would use at least a semi-syn to full syn. I've been running the Motorcraft 5W-20 in mine, but will likely switch over to Mobil 1 as thats what I run in my other vehicles. Other suggestions like PP above are also good.

 

[cookieman214]

Here is a link to the 2012 Honda Engine Oil Application guide.
Post #14
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61913

 

[MikeySoft]

Have you looked into the Mazda 0W20 gf5 SL with moly?

There are several threads about it in BITOG including a VOA. The following one is outside of BITOG.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=357910