Subwoofer recommendation <$400

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My wife and I are considering a subwoofer for our apartment. Tight, clean bass, ideally with decent extension below 30 Hz, are the goals; what I don't need is volume, since it rarely (if ever) will see very high volume levels. It will be used in a 17' x 17' x 12' room. We need it to cost no more than $400; ideally less.

So far, I've narrowed it down to the Wharfedale SW250 and the HSU Research STF-1:

The SW250 has a 10" driver and a sealed enclosure, whereas the STF-1 has an 8" driver and a ported enclosure. If that's all I had to go on, I'd pick the SW250. On the other hand, the STF-1's spec sheet seems more honest about its frequency response (it lists a +/- db value), it has been more thoroughly reviewed, and it has a longer warranty, which make much more confidence-inspiring.

Any thoughts are welcome.
 
I've personally had success with Velodyne product. I have had a CHT-10 for the last 7 years, and it is still going strong.

One note with regard to the warranty - keep in mind that the longer portion of the warranty is on the driver, not the electronics which are more likely to fail under normal conditions. In the case of the HSU STF-1, it has 2 years on the electronics, and 7 on the driver.
 
I bought my father a PSW10 Polk Audio 10" woofer and he is very happy with it. Can be found for under $100, read the reviews on Amazon and Newegg.com If you don't need lots of bass, I know of no better sub for the price.

I personally own the PSW505, which is Polk's 12" Woofer. It can be had on sales for $199 at Newegg normally. Clean, tight bass and more than your heart could ever take. I love bass in my movies, my music, and in my sports. It has never let me down. Again, you can read many reviews of these models online. The bang for the buck is unmatched, IMO.
 
I don't think your neighbors are going to like you!

I wouldn't buy a ported sub, no matter what the specs. They seem to provide extra volume at certain frequency ranges at the expense of other frequencies. I've never heard a sub in a ported box that sounded good in either a car or home application, and I found it impossible to get the ported home sub I owned to sound decent across an entire room or throughout different types of music. I suppose I'd consider buying one and sealing the port if it's the best option otherwise though.

My first home sub was a ported Paradigm PDR-10. It never sounded great, so I changed the driver to an Alpine S10 and sealed the box. It has a very nice sound now; I still use it for my bedroom stereo. I'm using a sealed band-pass Paradigm PS-1200 on my main stereo. It sounded better and more consistent than their more expensive, ported PW-2200. Three of my good buddies are equally passionate about their stereos, and all three use sealed enclosures for all their home and car subs.
 
My 2c's worth calls for the following ( I have a Yamaha ported sub and I'm well familiar with most ported/sealed subwoofer designs (I design speakers in addition to tube amps)

subwoofers technically should be called "bass augmenter": while it does it's job to fill some of the missing part of the bass region, unfortunately, owing to the nature of the design and room accoustics, etc. it ended up being very uneven, with lots of peaks and troughs....

While I'm good for virtually anything, I'm leaning towards Velodyne, Hsu Research and/or the good ole Entec sub (80s).

Good luck.

Q.
 
Thanks for the responses, everyone. It's really nice to hear people addressing the topic competently from a variety of angles.

rpn453, I tend to agree with you about ported vs. sealed boxes in general. The Hsu Research STF-1 made it on the list only because it seems to have been designed with exactly my priorities in mind and, like all Hsu Research products, is reviewed very favorably. The Wharfedale looks better to me on paper, but I can only find one review on it from a credible source (although it was overwhelmingly positive).

Oddly, I found one website that says the SW250 has a 20 Hz high-pass filter. Not sure how much I like that...
 
Here would be my suggestion:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

As far as sealed versus unsealed, you're asking a 10" cone to duplicate frequencies played by 15" AND 18" speakers. That's a lot to ask from a sealed box. Unless you want a huge cabinet, this is the trade-off you're going to have to make, IMO.

Unless you're going to build a horn-loaded cabinet, the bigger driver is really going to help. The driver in the Dayton sub is fine--I have one in my car and it's held up well.
 
I used to own the STF-1. It's a great little sub and does well in small rooms, but your room isn't exactly small (over 3000 cubic feet). When I moved mine to a larger room (similar size to yours), the bass was just too weak, almost nonexistent). I ended up selling it at that point.

If you want to stay with Hsu, then I would recommend you at least get the STF-2 - it's still within your budget.


From all I've read, Wharfedale isn't particularly well known for their subs. And like you noticed, it's really hard to find any reviews...

As far as good bang for the buck subs that should work well in your room, take a look at BIC F12 or at Premier Acoustic PA120 (around $200-$250).

Elemental Designs A2-300 is also supposedly very capable, but a hair over your budget ($415).
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I used to own the STF-1. It's a great little sub and does well in small rooms, but your room isn't exactly small (over 3000 cubic feet). When I moved mine to a larger room (similar size to yours), the bass was just too weak, almost nonexistent). I ended up selling it at that point.

If you want to stay with Hsu, then I would recommend you at least get the STF-2 - it's still within your budget.


From all I've read, Wharfedale isn't particularly well known for their subs. And like you noticed, it's really hard to find any reviews...

As far as good bang for the buck subs that should work well in your room, take a look at BIC F12 or at Premier Acoustic PA120 (around $200-$250).

Elemental Designs A2-300 is also supposedly very capable, but a hair over your budget ($415).



The BIC's used to be built and designed by HSU, is that still the case? I have heard they are great subs for the relative cheap price.

Good info on the STF-1 and I agree, and might even say he should step up to a VTF-3, slightly above budget but worth the jump in $$$ IMO.

Also, look into SVS, a little more high end, but like HSU, built here in the States and great value imo.
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS

Also, look into SVS, a little more high end, but like HSU, built here in the States and great value imo.

SVS subs are awesome. I have one of their cylinder subs in my living room. It certainly delivers when asked to. It was close to $600 though, if memory saves me right.

Quote:
he should step up to a VTF-3, slightly above budget but worth the jump in $$$ IMO.

Nice sub, but isn't it around $800 including shipping? I know they do go on sale once in a while...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Elemental Designs A2-300 is also supposedly very capable, but a hair over your budget ($415).


I spent a couple of evenings listening to one of their subs. My buddy had just purchased an Elemental Designs A7S - 450 (18") the last time I visited. It sounded great. After hearing that, I'd be willing to try the A3S - 250 (10",$350) or the A5S-300 (12",$550).
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
rpn453, I tend to agree with you about ported vs. sealed boxes in general. The Hsu Research STF-1 made it on the list only because it seems to have been designed with exactly my priorities in mind and, like all Hsu Research products, is reviewed very favorably. The Wharfedale looks better to me on paper, but I can only find one review on it from a credible source (although it was overwhelmingly positive).


With so many manufacturers out there now, I don't know much about most of them. Really, my experience with ported subs is limited to the Paradigm lineup from the late '90s to the mid 2000s, a few cheaper subs, and a few car stereo sub boxes. It's possible that other manufacturers can make a good sounding ported sub. They're too common to be completely flawed! If you do get a ported sub, you can always seal it anyway if you end up wanting to modify the sound.

I don't regret buying my PDR-10. It sounds good now and it was a learning experience. I originally had it in an apartment and it was nice to have some bass at first. But when my car got upgraded to an Alpine R10 in a 0.5 cubic foot sealed box, I realized my Paradigm was lacking in the low range and wasn't very clean so I installed an Alpine S10 driver, which I knew sounded good in a 1 cubic foot sealed box as that was another sub I had sampled in my car before deciding on the R10 for the extra power handling. It was also appropriate for the 1.5 cubic foot ported PDR-10 enclosure. The S10 cured the lack of low range, but the sound still wasn't great on certain types of music and in many parts of the room. When I moved my system into my father's basement for another year of university, I couldn't get it to sound consistent enough to even be worth using and loaned it to my buddy - the same one who now owns the Elemental Designs 18" sub - since we were spending far more time there than at my father's place anyway. He didn't like the sound though, so he sealed it up, siliconed all the mating surfaces, and duct-taped a phone book into the bottom to reduce the volume. It sounded great after that, but his neighbors complained shortly after and he gave it back. I'd be content with that 110W RMS unit as my main sub, but I got an itch to buy the PS-1200 after another buddy got one. We had spent an afternoon sampling Paradigm speakers and subs for his co-worker, and he ended up unexpectedly walking out with a pair of Monitor 9s and a PS-1200, while the co-worker took home some Monitor 7s. I bought a PS-1200 the next week. Both of my subs still have some peaks and valleys in their respective rooms, but nothing like when the PDR was ported.
 
I'm fond to my Klipsch speakers.
On one of my systems (bedroom), I run the RT-8s and usually don't run the sub. I like the clean base and tight highs, plus the efficiency dB/w/m of Klipsch. I run them from a tube valve amp which is fed from a sound shaper 33 w/spec. Just clean.
 
Originally Posted By: rpn453
It's possible that other manufacturers can make a good sounding ported sub. They're too common to be completely flawed! If you do get a ported sub, you can always seal it anyway if you end up wanting to modify the sound.

Well said, and good points.

The more I read, the more it seems that no sealed sub within reach of my budget is going to be sufficiently likely to do what I want anyway. I also should mention that I doubt my speakers are good enough to warrant much quibbling over any poorness of musicality in a decent ported subwoofer. Probably time to bite the bullet.

The Elemental Designs A2-300 is looking better and better. I spoke with Alex at ED a little bit ago and was almost ready to buy just because of how helpful he was. Plus, the fact that they post a real frequency response chart on their website is a huge plus -- not to mention that the curve seems pretty close to ideal for my purposes.

Any thoughts on their room EQ? http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_123&products_id=657
 
Originally Posted By: Errtt
I'm fond to my Klipsch speakers.
On one of my systems (bedroom), I run the RT-8s and usually don't run the sub. I like the clean base and tight highs, plus the efficiency dB/w/m of Klipsch. I run them from a tube valve amp which is fed from a sound shaper 33 w/spec. Just clean.



I recently picked up a McIntosh single 12" sub. large walnut box, I have it in a corner fed from my Harman-Kardon. I'm thinking of getting a separate amp for it. I like the clean bass too, something my Bravox woofers didn't do as well as this does.
 
Originally Posted By: BBuzecky
I bought my father a PSW10 Polk Audio 10" woofer and he is very happy with it. Can be found for under $100, read the reviews on Amazon and Newegg.com If you don't need lots of bass, I know of no better sub for the price.



I had this sub at my old place and wasn't too happy with it. At normal volumes watching TV it sounds decent, but as soon as you put in a movie and turn up the volume a bit more, it shows it's weaknesses and distorts like crazy.
 
SVS would be my choice, running the SVS 20-39PC++ tube in my living room with awesome results, living in an apt. I wouldn't even bother with a sub
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Apologies to those who recommended SVS. I have heard you but kept forgetting to respond. I'd love to consider SVS, but it looks like the PB10-NSD and PB12-NSD are not currently available; the next cheapest thing they have is the SB-12, which is out of my price range.
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