can't speak about the Outback but according to many, it handles more like a "car" and more comfortable on long road trips compared to the Forester. And Outback has more power because it has FI whereas the Forester has no turbo option. I chose the Forester because I plan to keep it for long term, no turbo means less complicated and less maintenance down the road. You can also feel that you sit higher on the Forester. Our Forester Wilderness on our third camping trip this year. Plenty of space for me, my wife and two kids plus a dog crate at the back. Just added a roof box for more cargo capacity. Very useful for the camping chairs and some firewoods. Turning one year with 20k kms and no complaints so far. Easy to do the oil change because the oil filter is at the top. Serpentine belt, alternator is easily accessible. Sparkplugs, not that easy but doable. Another maintenance item is front and rear differential oil.
Subaru Outback vs Forester
- Thread starter burbguy82
- Start date
Best color ! If i decide to get the Forester Wilderness, its going to be Autumn Green.
I just purchased a new Crosstrek last week 250 miles so far. A "premium" with the option 14 package, which was inclusive of the safety equipment that should be standard. This car is not going to satisfy my need for speed, but I have my Corvette for thatJust got a 2024 ONYX XT Outback. 800 miles so far..great car. Plenty of power, smooth ride and no complaints about the CVT and this is from a guy who has bought only manual transmission cars since 1964*
The dealers lot was FULL of cars…$2700 of of sticker.
*The wife has had a couple of automatics
Yes, the dealership had a nice selection and I received an excellent deal inclusive of my trade in. I typically keep a car for a long time, lets see what happens.
Outback is larger, so a little more cargo space and a slightly higher towing capacity.
It's a bit heavier and I can tell the difference in acceleration between my wife's Outback and my Forester.
The longer length needs a little more room to park. We're only talking a few inches though, not like a foot or more.
The Forester has a taller body with larger windows and it's like being in an air traffic control tower. It's very easy to see out. Even my co-worker who is like 6'7" and 350 decided to go with a Forester (Wilderness... I'm a bit jealous now) instead of the Outback.
If you do any light off roading ("soft roading") the Forester has better aprroach, breakover, and departure angles, though the Wilderness edition is much improved.
Engines and the CVT transaxle are the same.
Both are very, very safe.... I know how thick the rollover bars in a 2015 Forest is after having someone hit us and roll us. The sheet metal and some of the roof rail and even windshield were ground away exposing part of the protective cage.
Both are great in slippery road conditions. Just get better tires than what come stock (unless they've recently changed). The factory tires are usually put on for longevity and to help fuel economy, not for the best traction. In the previous generation the Foresters were doing to poorly in snow people began to question the quality of the car. It was the tires though. Take any car and put junk tires and it will do poorly. A top end Jeep with 150k in mods and crap tires will do worse in the snow than a rusted out Geo/Chevy Metro with good winter tires.
I've driving the hills in Seattle and other areas here in the snow and ice without an issue. But I have good tires. My wife's car has tires that are better in the rain, not as good in the snow, but she only has a couple hills to deal with and still hasn't had any issues.
Basically for normal driving, it comes down to the storage space, and a little bit of visibility.
If you can't tell I really like Subaru. I'm debating right now between a Crosstrek Wilderness (especially if they ever put the front camera on it) because it's smaller so more nimble, lighter, and better fuel economy and a modes like a lift, skid plates, etc, or something like the Toyota Tacoma overland edition (I forget what it's called).
It can't be too bad. My wife hasn't complained about it and (checks over shoulder) she is a total wimp about the heat. Like if it's 76, she wants the AC maxed in the house. If it's 80, I can't just put the windows down because she doesn't like the "hot" air blowing on her.
It's been getting to be over 90 and hits 100 in the summers now, and other than after first getting in her (black) car it is ok once it's moving and the hot air is exhausted.
Quirky things like this annoy me. Wife's Forester has been decent. Wheel bearings before 100k, lug studs could just as well be made from pretzel sticks the way we've broken them, recall on AC condenser but you have to run it on at least fan speed of 3-4 to keep the car cool when it's 85 degrees or more
Overall have been happy, but with a Honda and Toyota in my past with almost zero issues in 200k and over 100k in miles, definitely not that level of amazing in my opinion. But overall nothing too horrible. The AWD is great on for cars you can get for about 30k for base models. I'd buy another, I just don't understand the people that drool over them and have nothing bad to say about them.
I thought I was the only one or it needed a charge. Then after the condenser recall and charge it was still awful. My Toyota, after getting going down the freeway, can run the fan on speed 1 or 2 and keep you decently cool. With the Forester you crank the fan near full to keep it cool if it's into the 90s.
Subarus are Junk.
I've had a 07 and a 2011 outback 3.6r. Both have had massive engine problems and drivetrain issues.
Father has a 2023 or 2024 outback wilderness Nothing but problems. He has had his battery replaced at the dealer at least 3 times...now the solution is for him to keep it hooked up to a battery tender if he is not driving it every 7 days.
I can let my 2003 Toyota Camry sit for a Month or Two and it will fire right up.
2003 Toyota Camry, never a problem. 2007 and 2011 Outback. Both disabled. Engine issues, misfires, drivetrain wear.
All subarus, new and old have Engine problems. Excessive drive train problems. The new ones are even more junk. 4 cylinder turbo charged engines guaranteed to blow sooner than later. CVT transmissions just waiting to fail..again, for the benefit of what...2mph better fuel? and the excessive tesla screens with no analogue controls. This and other bad design decisions create parasitic drain on the batteries and you'll find yourself not being able to simply start your car when needed.
I'm sure there are many engineering reasons why they are unreliable and don't last for long term.
Also...the 4th gen and newer subarus look pretty stupid honestly.
All that said....my 3rd gen outback I had was in Gold color and was beautiful
...4 cylinder, automatic.it was superlight and had sporty handling and so great in snow as I could drive it like a baja mobile in snow.
I would still have it if the engine didn't go junk on me. Just tough and durable.
Do yourself a favor and get a Toyota / Honda / Mazda...something with an Automatic Transmission vs CVS and something without a turbocharged engine.
I've had a 07 and a 2011 outback 3.6r. Both have had massive engine problems and drivetrain issues.
Father has a 2023 or 2024 outback wilderness Nothing but problems. He has had his battery replaced at the dealer at least 3 times...now the solution is for him to keep it hooked up to a battery tender if he is not driving it every 7 days.
I can let my 2003 Toyota Camry sit for a Month or Two and it will fire right up.
2003 Toyota Camry, never a problem. 2007 and 2011 Outback. Both disabled. Engine issues, misfires, drivetrain wear.
All subarus, new and old have Engine problems. Excessive drive train problems. The new ones are even more junk. 4 cylinder turbo charged engines guaranteed to blow sooner than later. CVT transmissions just waiting to fail..again, for the benefit of what...2mph better fuel? and the excessive tesla screens with no analogue controls. This and other bad design decisions create parasitic drain on the batteries and you'll find yourself not being able to simply start your car when needed.
I'm sure there are many engineering reasons why they are unreliable and don't last for long term.
Also...the 4th gen and newer subarus look pretty stupid honestly.
All that said....my 3rd gen outback I had was in Gold color and was beautiful
...4 cylinder, automatic.it was superlight and had sporty handling and so great in snow as I could drive it like a baja mobile in snow.
I would still have it if the engine didn't go junk on me. Just tough and durable.
Do yourself a favor and get a Toyota / Honda / Mazda...something with an Automatic Transmission vs CVS and something without a turbocharged engine.
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Funny. 5 subarus.. Over 600K miles and we certainly disagree.
I will say that the HG issue that existed for 15 years in many engines. Was for sure an issue. But when you repaired it and replaced it with MLS gaskets. You got another 100K, 200K or more miles. HG problems are a thing of the distant past.
No one over the years has replicated the Subaru Symetrical AWD system and inherent safety of Subarus. But to each his own
Just so we're clear, you don't like Subaru?
What were your subarus and how many miles on each?
To each their own and millage may vary but the inherent design of a flat 4 vs an inline 4 makes it less reliable. Head gasket is what people usually say when talking about subaru engine issues but there is much more to in than that and it is simply a talking point that maybe people quote from what they have heard online or in forums.
"Head Gasket Issues where the only engine problem and they fixed that 100 years ago and never had a problem since...."
Subaru actually still requires the use of "Subaru Conditioner" in all new subarus...which is essentially .. or very close to bar leak leak stop which is telling. Additionally, lots of new subaru engines are turbocharged. More compression, less reliability, turbos, less reliability.
Direct injection, more carbon buildup, less reliability
These are simply facts.
Edit: Oh, I forgot the silly electronic rack on the new ones...but to be fair that is not just a subaru thing.
Regarding Subaru Symmetrical AWD replication never being replicated, sure, there are lots of AWD systems
The new subarus are not even that slick anymore as they are using CVTs now
Toyota FJ Cruiser / Ford Raptor / older Volkswagen Tourareg
Audi Quattro is superior.
Regarding Subaru Safety...have you ever heard of Volvo...and again Audi.
I loved my old 2007 Outback and Id honestly rather buy an old one of those, pull and rebuild the engine than buy one of these newer subaru junkers.
The argument for Subaru over a Toyota / Honda / Mazda or Volvo/Audi if you are fancy and got money is never based on fact but simply cult followings.
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No, I loved my old 07 Outback...love the older ones. Beautiful lines. Performed like a little mini-pickup/ralleycar/whatever you want to call it. It kept up with some Landrover LR4s and fully locking jeeps during a snowmegaton 10 years ago
Hate the newer ones and hate the reliability on all of them.
Outback is full wagon experience. Forester is more upright and has much better moonroof. Everything is on the global platform now so the ride and experience is going to be extremely familial. You’ll find that while the maximum cornering limits are nothing noteworthy, the cars are engaging and kind of rewarding to hustle them on dry or wet roads.
Back before VDC and other electronic nannies, one could find a dirt road or snow-covered parking lot and learn rallycross. These days, the watchdogs put an end to that since most soccer moms would lose their minds if the ABS didn’t corral them in.
Absolutely drive both the 2.5NA and the 2.4 turbo… I guarantee you’ll end up with the turbo if you’ve still got a pulse (and the funds available). If you’ve never driven the turbo, the NA will actually make you a better driver because you have to anticipate when you’re going to accelerate & pre-plan the move. However, either engine is fine in its intended ecosystem: soft-roading, wet, or snowy roads. Stick a good set of true winter tires on them and there’s not much a sane person can’t accomplish.
It seems for the most part that Subaru has finally ironed out all its bugs, with a straggler every now and then. 2.5NAs are no longer worrisome for HGs and the base CVT has been upgraded.
The 2.4 turbos have not really had any issues. I run HPL Premium Plus 5w30, but have SuperCar 0w30 on deck. But that’s @OVERKILL (ha ha) and you can “probably” get by on the 0w20 that’s recommended, but if you’re planning on keeping it, I’d recommend something with at least a 3.1 HTHS, if not a hair higher. The Premium Plus is right at 3.16, but SuperCar is at 3.54 HTHS, along with Dave’s other goodies to keep the turbo clean & happy. You can certainly use something like Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0w40 and never worry twice about it.
Leather seats gives heated & cooled options, or cloth still has heated option. Infotainment on my 19 Ascent is still a hair clunky compared to some of the vehicles I rent; it’s the 2020 version of CGA graphics and Visual Studio. But the newer stuff is much better.
Thanks for the write up, very helpful, and thoughtful.
Still have not made a decision on it, as it is for my daughter to drive my wife around in.
100K miles on my '78
270K miles on my 08
42K miles on my '18 so far
36K miles on my '19
36K miles on my '22
Zero problems on the last 3. Traded both in
"Head Gasket Issues where the only engine problem and they fixed that 100 years ago and never had a problem since...."
Subaru actually still requires the use of "Subaru Conditioner" in all new subarus...which is essentially .. or very close to bar leak leak stop which is telling. Additionally, lots of new subaru engines are turbocharged. More compression, less reliability, turbos, less reliability.
The problems were fixed in 2011 with the FB series. No conditioner required. Turbos have a 10:1 compression when turbo is used. Turbo is used maybe 15 % of the time and then compression is like 11:1.
Direct injection, more carbon buildup, less reliability
On any subaru boards there is no reliability issue with intake carbon buildup.
These are simply facts.
Edit: Oh, I forgot the silly electronic rack on the new ones...but to be fair that is not just a subaru thing.
Never had any issue with electronics with subaru
Regarding Subaru Symmetrical AWD replication never being replicated, sure, there are lots of AWD systems
The new subarus are not even that slick anymore as they are using CVTs now
Toyota FJ Cruiser / Ford Raptor / older Volkswagen Tourareg
Audi Quattro is superior.
NO one has the low slung boxer engine where the drive shaft is in the center. There is no system clearly better than subaru's. Many are just as good.
Regarding Subaru Safety...have you ever heard of Volvo...and again Audi.
Volvo passed the small overlap test when it came out 9 years ago. Audi did not. But look at those first tests on youtube vs Subaru. All subaru car-lines passed it. Subaru is known for safety. And audi and volvo do not fare any better
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Generally, Asian vehicles come with junk batteries.
The only two cars that ever decided not to start on me, out of nowhere without any previous signs of battery degradation, were Mazda and Toyota.
I get you are a believer in the Subarus...but they are down the list on reliability and there is no real valid arguments.
How many old subarus do you see on the road vs old camrys.
Your last 3 cars with 42k max mileage is irrelevant...for any car. that is still a brand new car at that mileage...but its cool you put 270k on that 08. My 07 died at 170
Conditioner is required
From the 2022 outback warranty and maintenance manual
"To prevent cooling system leaks, always add Genuine Subaru Cooling
System Conditioner whenever the coolant is replaced"
Turbos do wear out and turbos do cause more engine wear. Facts...but turbos are still awesome for power.
For a reliable car....a flat 4 turbo is not.
Reliability order would be
Indirect over direct injectionfor all the below
1) Inline / Natural / Manual
2) V-Type / Natural / Manual
3) Inline / Natural / 4 or 5 Auto
3) V-Type / Natural / 4/5 Auto
4) Inline / Turbo / Manual
5) V-Type / Turbo / Manual
6) Inline / Turbo/ Auto
7) V-Type / Turbo / Auto
8) Any of above adding direct injection.
9) Older Flat 4 Subarus, Naturally aspirated, with manuals...assuming they are indirect injected.
Finally New Subarus
Flat 4 / Turbo / Direct Injected / CVT
of course hybrids and electric after this
Direct Injection does cause carbon buildup and it does cause issues in any and all cars down the road.
Subaru even sells a fancy subaru branded carbon intake cleaning kit...they call it top engine cleaner or something...seafoam basically
Safety:
Are subarus safe? Without question
Are their safer options out there?
Absolutely
Electronics:
I said electronic rack. That meant steering. there are hydraulic steering and electric steering systems. Hydraulic being better.
Regardless...subaru has been involved a class action lawsuit regarding their electronics..which consumers only usually saw as a battery drain
Look, I don't mean to go at it with you but subarus are nice for what they are...but after a certain amount of mileage it simply is what it is.
Should they be recommended to people? if they live in snow yes, if they don't plan on keeping it long term, sure. If they simply like it and don't care about anything we are talking about, ok I guess.
If they want a long term reliable vechile, 100% no.
Working on cars and trucks, doing large repairs and rebuilds,, reading the owners manuals, reading haynes, readint tech bulletins, etc,, watching scotty, chrisfix, and other pros is what make what I'm saying...less of an opinion.
Some people think that because a subaru outback say you can tow 3500lbs you actually can out the lot and stock....the reality however is it tows only 1000lbs
So anyway, "the more you know"
