Subaru Outback vs Forester

[edyvw]

I can only offer my experience with my 2003 Outback and my 2021 Ascent. The Outback wagon was very versatile lots of cargo space. I had 27 bags of wet heavy mulch in it probably not my best idea. Issues I had with that car are not applicable to you and newer generations. I will say my current Ascent and some current fa24 engines are experiencing leaking oil pans. Dealer tried to blame it on my Fumoto not being torqued enough…which is a joke. My Ascent’s brakes are horrendous for vibration because of pad buildup. Three dealer brake jobs in 36k. May not pertain to Outbacks but very annoying

I am not sure that is pad build up.
Generally Japanese vehicles come with undersized rotors and quality is really not that great. They are not high carbon rotors and if vehicle is heavy, they can’t sustain that much heat. Same happened on my Sienna and EBC rotors were definitive solution. There was same talk about pad buildup, but it was rotor issue.
European vehicles don’t have that issue. So, I was surprised that my Atlas started to behave same, although rotors are definitely sized properly. However, VW went same route for the US market on these appliance vehicles. So I had vibration issues and bought OE rotors, which had Brembo stamped on them. They very very light in color, which indicates low carbon content, but whatever. It took them 6k miles to start vibrating. I brake with engine all the time, but I do drive hard to the limit. Also, I put OE pads. They have phenomenal bite force. On Atlas forums it general consensus is pad buildup. I wasn’t convinced.
Anyway, aftermarket rotors are not common for Atlas like for other VW’s like GTI or R where you have cottage industry of aftermarket parts (talking about good stuff). But, ATE (which is my go to brand for anything brakes) just released aftermarket rotors. So I ordered and they are clearly darker. Left old pads (to see if they will cause buildup).
23k later they work like a charm!
I don’t think ATE makes aftermarket parts for Subaru, so I would try EBC rotors in your case.

 

[edyvw]

Oh, and it's the easiest DIY oil change on the planet. The oil filter is on top in the front for that NA 2.5L.

Filter on the top of the engine has been on many vehicles for like 35 years.

 

[dlundblad]

The CVT and the boxer engine are major turn-offs for me, with the CVT being the biggest issue.

Stellantis dealers seem pretty desperate these days, and I wouldn't be surprised if they start throwing in perks like chauffeuring you around for the first two weeks after you buy a car. If you're in the market for a Jeep, the Grand Cherokee with the 8-speed ZF 8HP50 transmission and AWD is a solid choice. It's got a planetary differential in the transfer case which is a nice touch. Also, the Pentastar engine is reliable, especially if you swap out the standard oil filter housing for an aluminum one early on. Oh, and you can safely tow with it up to 7,500 lbs. It has the same power train they install in the RAM 1500 full size pickups.

If you're really into Subaru, that's totally fine too. Out of their lineup, I'd probably go with the Outback.

Would the chauffeur service be available because the Jeep broke down shorty after purchase?

 

[The Lube Guy]

Would the chauffeur service be available because the Jeep broke down shorty after purchase?

What would be the cause of the breakdown?

 

[dlundblad]

What would be the cause of the breakdown?

Poor qc, reliability etc.?

Why else would a car dealer offer a chauffeur service after they sold someone a new vehicle?

 

[The Lube Guy]

Poor qc, reliability etc.?

You ever owned a Jeep?

Why else would a car dealer offer a chauffeur service after they sold someone a new vehicle?

Obviously you didn't get the joke.

 

[Nmr1981]

I am not sure that is pad build up.
Generally Japanese vehicles come with undersized rotors and quality is really not that great. They are not high carbon rotors and if vehicle is heavy, they can’t sustain that much heat. Same happened on my Sienna and EBC rotors were definitive solution. There was same talk about pad buildup, but it was rotor issue.
European vehicles don’t have that issue. So, I was surprised that my Atlas started to behave same, although rotors are definitely sized properly. However, VW went same route for the US market on these appliance vehicles. So I had vibration issues and bought OE rotors, which had Brembo stamped on them. They very very light in color, which indicates low carbon content, but whatever. It took them 6k miles to start vibrating. I brake with engine all the time, but I do drive hard to the limit. Also, I put OE pads. They have phenomenal bite force. On Atlas forums it general consensus is pad buildup. I wasn’t convinced.
Anyway, aftermarket rotors are not common for Atlas like for other VW’s like GTI or R where you have cottage industry of aftermarket parts (talking about good stuff). But, ATE (which is my go to brand for anything brakes) just released aftermarket rotors. So I ordered and they are clearly darker. Left old pads (to see if they will cause buildup).
23k later they work like a charm!
I don’t think ATE makes aftermarket parts for Subaru, so I would try EBC rotors in your case.

Everyone on the Ascent forums points to the pads on this model. Subaru has released no less than 4 revisions of the pads (d) to address this issue. The members there swear it’s the user’s fault for not doing a 1000 mile gentle break in. My wife’s commute is very easy and I can assure you that break in was gentle enough. Regardless I will never put stock pads and rotors on this car now since I’m outside the warranty. The brakes, oil leak, interior materials, CVT weirdness and other issues add up to make the car seem cheap. It drives nice enough handles just fine and AWD is nice for the 6” of snow we get each year but I’m kind of underwhelmed. We will see if it can make it to 200k.

 

[edyvw]

Everyone on the Ascent forums points to the pads on this model. Subaru has released no less than 4 revisions of the pads (d) to address this issue. The members there swear it’s the user’s fault for not doing a 1000 mile gentle break in. My wife’s commute is very easy and I can assure you that break in was gentle enough. Regardless I will never put stock pads and rotors on this car now since I’m outside the warranty. The brakes, oil leak, interior materials, CVT weirdness and other issues add up to make the car seem cheap. It drives nice enough handles just fine and AWD is nice for the 6” of snow we get each year but I’m kind of underwhelmed. We will see if it can make it to 200k.

They point that on Toyota and VW forums for Atlas.
Also, no vehicle of that type should need 1000 mile gentle break in. It is an appliance vehicle not Porsche GT3. Even cars like BMW M3 don't have break in time with regular pads. The only time that is required is racing pads or track capable pads. I track my BMW and switch between street pads (absolutely no break-in period on new rotor and pads) and racing pads (they need some time), and I give them a few hundred miles of hardcore braking.
Pads for cars like Ascent, Camry etc. are made ready to go once they are on. If manufacturer requires some break in period on it, that tells a lot about what junk they put on.
Now, when it comes to gentle braking. If she uses brakes a lot, regardless of speed (which I see all the time, like people having love affair with brake pedal) they will overheat rotors if they are already made cheaply.
Get EBC Premium rotors and greenstuff pads. They will dust more, but you will see a dramatic improvement in braking. You could experiment with other brands, but I found those working well on the Toyota Sienna.

 

[dlundblad]

You ever owned a Jeep?


Obviously you didn't get the joke.

I’m kind of thinking the same thing about you.

And yes I do. I have one as do my parents and my brother. They’ve all been reliable. Chrysler and AMC era.

 

[The Lube Guy]

I’m kind of thinking the same thing about you.

And yes I do. I have one as do my parents and my brother. They’ve all been reliable. Chrysler and AMC era.

I was so mad when the oil filter housing failed on our 2022 Jeep GK WK2. It had only 6K miles on it. Instead of having some random tech do a hush job installing the same thing, I took my sweet time, got a Dorman unit that was as close to perfect as possible, installed it, changed the coolant to Rotella OAT, and the oil, upgraded the throttle body to a ported OEM unit, and installed a CAI. Oh, these PUG engines also have issues with the EGR. The EGR will kill the engine under load loads, like slowly backing up out of the driveway. The ported throttle body and CAI took care of that issue. I also replaced all the fluids in the drive line. No other issues with the vehicle. I get though that having to do reliability mods on a brand new vehicle is not desirable. Also, the dealer pretending like "we can't reproduce the issue" speaks volumes about how bad Stellantis dealerships are.

As to pricing, they overpriced them, that's why now they're lowering prices and struggling to sell. Still, I'd take all the work I did on that Jeep over having a CVT in my life. Just my two cents.

 

[dlundblad]

I was so mad when the oil filter housing failed on our 2022 Jeep GK WK2. It had only 6K miles on it. Instead of having some random tech do a hush job installing the same thing, I took my sweet time, got a Dorman unit that was as close to perfect as possible, installed it, changed the coolant to Rotella OAT, and the oil, upgraded the throttle body to a ported OEM unit, and installed a CAI. Oh, these PUG engines also have issues with the EGR. The EGR will kill the engine under load loads, like slowly backing up out of the driveway. The ported throttle body and CAI took care of that issue. I also replaced all the fluids in the drive line. No other issues with the vehicle. I get though that having to do reliability mods on a brand new vehicle is not desirable. Also, the dealer pretending like "we can't reproduce the issue" speaks volumes about how bad Stellantis dealerships are.

As to pricing, they overpriced them, that's why now they're lowering prices and struggling to sell. Still, I'd take all the work I did on that Jeep over having a CVT in my life. Just my two cents.

Who was doing the oil changes?

 

[burbguy82]

Drove a '24 Forester today. Not impressed.

The Forester is made in Japan

This is true, says right on the sticker. To me that is important. I would rather go Japanese made, not Indiana made.

The Forester Wilderness really interested me especially with the 3.5k towing capacity.

This is with caviats. Standard towing is 1500 lbs.

You ever owned a Jeep?

I do, but I would argue that Jeep, is no longer Jeep.

Chrysler and AMC era.

This is key.

 

[dlundblad]

OP: Another small AWD that interested me is the Mazda CX5. Learned about it here. Normal transmission and also made in Japan. 32k or so.

Our local dealer made it look massive in the photos. It looks smaller than the Forester in person, but can tow 2000 lbs IIRC.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Who was doing the oil changes?

I do my own oil changes and all the maintenance.

 

[The Lube Guy]

I do, but I would argue that Jeep, is no longer Jeep.

The same can be said about the Big Mac.

 

[bobdoo]

We are replacing my wife's 2021 Outback. We both *hated* the 2024 Forester *and* the Outback. And what the hell is with the giant Ipad nonsense!

I loved my 2000 Outback, and 2012 Impreza was a nice commuter car, but both were tinny and cheap feeling.

Yet to test drive a RAV4, but she loves the Mazda CX-5. I have had one since 2016, she didn't want another, but changed her mind with a test drive.

 

[Al]

I have owned 5 subarus. The last 3- 18' Forester, 19 Crostrek, and '22 Forester were rock solid.

 

[Jdeere562]

I bought the last year of a 2018 Forester production. Before the DI injection models. Gave it to my Granddaughter last year at about 60,000 miles. Only did the routine stuff and had 2 nails in the tires. Been a heck of a good vehicle. I have never driven an Outback. Kind of wish I had, but that would have been a trip to a dealership. I just bought it online, and had never even sat in a Subaru until I owned one. Friend's called me a "high stakes gambler"

But it all worked out and she is a happy 18 year old girl.

 

[AutoMechanic]

I think Subaru has improved a lot over the years. Aside from the Ascent brake problem which they refuse to fix. They are based on a Forester platform but Subaru didn’t realize they needed to make the brake rotors bigger for a bigger SUV and so the brake rotors overheat and maybe last 10-20k which is why you have to do so many brake jobs on them. When I was working on Subaru at my dealership we seen at least 10-20 Ascent brake jobs a week. Other than that there is nothing wrong with them except I can’t stand the looks of the new ones but that’s just me.

 

[burbguy82]

Got a 22 Forester Wilderness. 38k miles.

Not much I don't like. Good price point, for sure...a quality AWD vehicle for under $40k (that was in 22). The Wilderness version is geared a little differently that gives it a little more pep than the other Forester trims, but you take a small mpg hit. Summer blends gets me 27mpg, winter about 24.5mpg. not going to win races but IMO the engine is enough for it and doesn't mind hitting 4-5k rpm.

It's the best vehicle I've ever seen for all-around site lines. It feels like there is so much glass, and you can see everything... virtually zero significant blind spots.

Subaru wrote the book on AWD so no issues there.

I did have some pics taken at 18k miles of the intake valves, and they were already showing deposits. But that's a DI problem and not necessarily a Subaru problem except they stopped using Toyota's D4S...

Interior of the Wilderness is durable. Got a 9 yr old kiddo and a rambunctious mini poodle and it shows no real wear from claws or anything. I did have a period of time with a car seat bc my kiddo is smallish, and there was plenty of room without having to move seats up.

Infotainment is pretty blah, but I didn't really care about that. Huge moon roof is huge.

Anything else, just ask!

i did not drive the wilderness, just a premium. wildwrness has some nice features