Subaru Head Gasket Options

[MRC01]

Our 2004 Forester has 100k miles, almost time to replace the timing belt. I suspect the head gaskets have a tiny pin-hole leak, because it's been gradually consuming coolant for the past 5 years or so. No bubbles in the radiator, no contamination in the overflow tank, no funky exhaust smell, or other obvious symptoms. So it must be a tiny leak. I always check and stay on top of it, so it's never gone low or overheated.

Other than this, it still runs like new. Good power, fuel economy, etc. Burns about 1 qt. of oil per 2k to 3k miles, and always has since new. And I've owned it since new, so I know its condition and history. If the timing belt & head gaskets were replaced, it's got a good chance to do another 100k miles.

Normally I'd do the timing belt myself, but since it needs new head gaskets I'll probably take it to the shop. They're quoting about $4k out the door: labor, parts, tax, etc. for the timing belt & head gaskets, including new pulleys, tensioner, water pump, t-stat etc. That's expensive enough I'm wondering if it's worth getting an overhauled crate engine. The shop says they used to do that, but the crate engines had so many problems they stopped doing this.

Any advice, or other options I should consider?

 

[slacktide_bitog]

LS swap?

I thought you'd be able to do head gaskets if you can do a timing belt yourself.

Supposedly, Fel-Pro makes a good head gasket that actually eliminates the Subaru head gasket problems for good.

You could always replace the timing belt now and junk the car when the head gasket problem finally gets even worse.

 

[CarLuver]

you have the 2.5 sohc . pull the engine, put it on a stand and tear it apart. its really not that hard to do as the sohc does not even need the cams removed. you should be able to do it all for less than $1k .

felpro makes a great head gasket for subaru. multi layered steel.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Do you use the Subaru Coolant Conditioner when you change antifreeze? It's designed to help deal with some of those pinhole leaks. As far as replacement, I too like the LS swap idea, but likely not an option for you. Use either the SixStar MLS gaskets, or Cometic MLS. BTW, in 2004, timing belts were recommended for every 105k or ~9 years, so in reality it's due no matter the mileage SOHC Timing Belt swap

Subaru full rebuilds are stupid expensive for no good reason (that I've seen... you can build a 500HP LS for less than the cost of a 400HP EJ25)... so IMO if you're handy and have some room, grab a cherry picker and go for it. It's not too difficult to pull engine & heads, get them resurfaced, and then slap it back together. SOHC is fairly straightforward to get everything back, and you shouldn't have to pull cams for the resurfacing. Get a new set of head bolts, and use ARP Ultra-Torque lube on them. Take pics! GL

 

[Cujet]

That's on the high side for gaskets and belt. There are Subaru specialty shops that do it for far less.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

You really don’t even need to pull the motor, just jack it up. At the dealership we did pull motors to do head gaskets but just for the simple reason we had the equipment and were able to totally reseal everything while we were there.

On personal vehicles, or side jobs, our Subaru nerd techs (we had a couple that LOVED Subaru’s) would use the gasket called for the turbo motors because we didn’t have issues with them leaking.

 

[MRC01]

Thanks for all the info...

The shop uses SixStar gaskets and does a lot of them, swears by them and warrants their work for 3 years / 36k miles.

Replacing the head gaskets also involves other work like checking the valve guides and replacing as necessary, sending the heads to a machine shop to get resurfaced. Labor intensive to do it right, and the price I mentioned above is on the high side because it includes all of that.

 

[bdcardinal]

Do the ARP studs help at all on these like other engines?

 

[Pelican]

Our 2004 Forester has 100k miles, almost time to replace the timing belt. I suspect the head gaskets have a tiny pin-hole leak, because it's been gradually consuming coolant for the past 5 years or so. No bubbles in the radiator, no contamination in the overflow tank, no funky exhaust smell, or other obvious symptoms. So it must be a tiny leak. I always check and stay on top of it, so it's never gone low or overheated.

Other than this, it still runs like new. Good power, fuel economy, etc. Burns about 1 qt. of oil per 2k to 3k miles, and always has since new. And I've owned it since new, so I know its condition and history. If the timing belt & head gaskets were replaced, it's got a good chance to do another 100k miles.

Normally I'd do the timing belt myself, but since it needs new head gaskets I'll probably take it to the shop. They're quoting about $4k out the door: labor, parts, tax, etc. for the timing belt & head gaskets, including new pulleys, tensioner, water pump, t-stat etc. That's expensive enough I'm wondering if it's worth getting an overhauled crate engine. The shop says they used to do that, but the crate engines had so many problems they stopped doing this.

Any advice, or other options I should consider?

You are way overdue on your timing belt as it does have a mileage factor, but also a time factor, I can't remember exactly the time lapse but if memory serves it 5 or 6 years, the spec is given in # weeks. Ask you dealer for the precise time lapse.

 

[ondarvr]

The price is high, even with all the other work.

I've had several Subarus, I had the headgaskets done on two of them.

On one the headgaskets, including all the other stuff came to $2,800.

The other one, a turbo, had a radiator failure and that took out the head gaskets. We had it done, plus all the related parts changed because "you're already in there".

The entire job, with radiator, all fluids changed, all in came to just over $4,000

Once these things are done you're good to go until about 250,000 miles, then a few other things may pop up.

I used a highly rated independent Subaru specialty shop for the work.

The radiators do fail, the glue joint between the plastic and aluminum blows apart instantly and dumps all the water sometimes. This happened to my wife on the freeway, it overheated and blew the headgaskets before the warning lights even came on.

The glue joint failed on the other Subaru too, it was after the first headgasket job. This caused the headgaskets to fail again. Since all the other work had already been done, we only had the headgaskets done this time. I think was about $1,800.

 

[MRC01]

It's interesting you all think $4k is expensive including all the work to do it right (replacing pulleys, tensioner, water pump, resurfacing heads, etc.). I wish I could find a lower estimate. Today I got another estimate, $4600. Both from highly rated independent local Subaru shops. One N of Seattle, one S of Seattle.

Most of it is labor, so I'm starting to think maybe I should put in the hours and do it myself. It would save a couple thousand bucks.

 

[MRC01]

... You could always replace the timing belt now and junk the car when the head gasket problem finally gets even worse.

Regarding that option - is it worth doing a UOA to assess whether the head gaskets really are leaking, and if so how much? That is, if the head gasket is leaking will there always be some coolant in the oil? And if so, does the coolant have specific elements that can be differentiated from normal wear metals?

 

[CarLuver]

It's interesting you all think $4k is expensive including all the work to do it right (replacing pulleys, tensioner, water pump, resurfacing heads, etc.). I wish I could find a lower estimate. Today I got another estimate, $4600. Both from highly rated independent local Subaru shops. One N of Seattle, one S of Seattle.

Most of it is labor, so I'm starting to think maybe I should put in the hours and do it myself. It would save a couple thousand bucks.

Do it yourself if that's the price. It's not that hard with the right tools. Timing the sohc is a lot easier than the dohc. Last time I got the whole felpro gasket set for $200 . A OEM timing set is what $300? Resurface the heads maybe $150 to $200.

The first I did a sub head gasket it took me 13 hours. I did not refinish the heads though . It's been about 75k miles with no hg leaks . I bet I could do it in 7 hours if I had to do it again . Lot of the extra time was reading the manual

 

[PimTac]

Regarding that option - is it worth doing a UOA to assess whether the head gaskets really are leaking, and if so how much? That is, if the head gasket is leaking will there always be some coolant in the oil? And if so, does the coolant have specific elements that can be differentiated from normal wear metals?

High sodium and potassium numbers are a sign of coolant intrusion. Does your oil have a milky or chocolate milk look to it?

Sometimes head gaskets leak and don’t get into the oil. That’s a possibility as well.

 

[Langanobob]

Ours started leaking badly at about 110,000 miles. I put a bottle of Barr’s Radiator Stopleak in it. That was 40,000 miles ago and no more leaking.

 

[wdn]

One can find 2011 or newer Forester, 7 years newer than yours that has the chain not a belt in the $6K range so what do you suppose your 2004 is worth right now in its current condition. I would not sink $4,000 into a 2004 Forester for a single repair. That $4000 or $4,600 would go a long ways toward the purchase of a much newer model. I would use the Subaru coolant conditioner and I would add coolant and keep driving it.

 

[ondarvr]

Since you're in the Seattle area, go to Greg's Japanese Auto, thats where mine were done. They did great work.

 

[PimTac]

Since you're in the Seattle area, go to Greg's Japanese Auto, thats where mine were done. They did great work.

That was the first thing I thought of as well, that is if the OP hasn’t gone there.

 

[MRC01]

... does your oil have a milky or chocolate milk look to it?

Nope.

...Sometimes head gaskets leak and don’t get into the oil. ...

In which case, a UOA wouldn't help; a negative (clean) UOA doesn't mean they're not leaking. Then again, I might do a UOA anyway because it could determine whether coolant is getting into the oil which could reduce the oil's ability to protect the engine.

Ours started leaking badly at about 110,000 miles. I put a bottle of Barr’s Radiator Stopleak in it. That was 40,000 miles ago and no more leaking.

I thought about that, but heard that those additives can also clog up the radiator or cooling passages. I could try the Subaru additive, which I've never used before.

Since you're in the Seattle area, go to Greg's Japanese Auto, thats where mine were done. They did great work.

Thanks for the tip, I'll call them. So far, I've talked with Smart Service and InFront Automotive.

 

[Andrew1972]

Drive on. Add Subaru coolant conditioner skip major engine work for a hunch.