Still Not Convinced by Lubegard’s Kool-It Compatibility Reply

[StarCaller]

I sent an email to Lubegard regarding the compatibility of 'Kool-It' Supreme Coolant Treatment /
The response is not really what I expected....


"Subject: Compatibility of Lubegard Kool-It with Toyota, Subaru, and GM Coolants

To whom it may concern,

I’m looking for clear technical confirmation about the compatibility of Lubegard Kool-It Supreme Coolant Treatment with the coolant in my 2014 Toyota Prius. The car uses Toyota Super Long Life Coolant (pink).

According to your SDS, the product contains Hexanoic Acid, 2-ethyl-, sodium salt. Toyota’s coolant does not use 2-ethylhexanoic acid or related salts. It relies on phosphate and specific organic acids and excludes nitrites, borates, and 2-EHA chemistry. I want to know whether adding Kool-It alters the inhibitor balance or creates any long-term material compatibility issues in this system. Please confirm whether Kool-It has been tested with Toyota SLLC or is considered compatible in its original concentration.

I also need clarification for my other vehicles: a 2009 Subaru Forester and a 2005 Pontiac GTO. Subaru’s coolant is an OAT formula without 2-EHA. GM’s Dex-Cool systems do use 2-EHA. Please state whether Kool-It is compatible with each of these coolant families and whether the concentration of 2-ethylhexanoate in your formulation falls within acceptable limits for both.

I would appreciate direct technical specifics based on your formulation data and any internal testing rather than a general compatibility statement.


Regards, .... "




Their response:

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Must be such a small amount of 2-eha that it doesn’t affect the multiple quarts of coolant?

 

[JHZR2]

Must be such a small amount of 2-eha that it doesn’t affect the multiple quarts of coolant?

That would be my initial thought.

We know that topping up dexcool (which contains 2-EHA), with with traditional coolants, was known to create silicate sludge.

However, Im not sure that the 2-EHA is the actual cause of additive dropout. I believe most consideration of 2-EHA was related to incompatibility with gasket materials and silicones.

To be frank, OPs question is written borderline rude and has high expectations for something not likely to be confirmable. While they could blend the products at the right ratios and observe what happens, this may not be the case over long durations under heat and pressure. It’s hard to imagine that the manufacturer would test every single combination, and even then, what are they looking for? Additive dropout? Reactions? What exactly is an inhibitor balance and what mechanism would cause it to be problematic over the short or long term, and in what engine variants? Is there something else? When it’s a few ounces in a few gallons?

I recall the few times I used redline water wetter I got what looked like oil droplets in the degas bottle. Stop using it, no more droplets. Was that an incompatibility? An issue? A problem? An inhibitor balance matter?

What 2-EHA issue is OP trying to prosecute here at minimal dilutions? Something real or imaginary? I get it that in theory anything could happen, and being absolutely definite is the best feeling. But absolutely definite is using OE coolant and clean water only, as the factory prescribed. Is kool it going to solve a specific problem? Is it the only fix? Would climate allow for a lower coolant to water ratio so the system works better overall?

 

[StarCaller]

That would be my initial thought.

We know that topping up dexcool (which contains 2-EHA), with with traditional coolants, was known to create silicate sludge.

However, Im not sure that the 2-EHA is the actual cause of additive dropout. I believe most consideration of 2-EHA was related to incompatibility with gasket materials and silicones.

To be frank, OPs question is written borderline rude and has high expectations for something not likely to be confirmable. While they could blend the products at the right ratios and observe what happens, this may not be the case over long durations under heat and pressure. It’s hard to imagine that the manufacturer would test every single combination, and even then, what are they looking for? Additive dropout? Reactions? What exactly is an inhibitor balance and what mechanism would cause it to be problematic over the short or long term, and in what engine variants? Is there something else? When it’s a few ounces in a few gallons?

I recall the few times I used redline water wetter I got what looked like oil droplets in the degas bottle. Stop using it, no more droplets. Was that an incompatibility? An issue? A problem? An inhibitor balance matter?

What 2-EHA issue is OP trying to prosecute here at minimal dilutions? Something real or imaginary? I get it that in theory anything could happen, and being absolutely definite is the best feeling. But absolutely definite is using OE coolant and clean water only, as the factory prescribed. Is kool it going to solve a specific problem? Is it the only fix? Would climate allow for a lower coolant to water ratio so the system works better overall?

I get it that 16 oz in 7.5 qt is tiny and risk is low /
I was just looking for technical clarity on long-term compatibility with Toyota SLLC, Subaru, and GM coolants before adding anything /
The droplet comment on water-wetter stuff shows why it’s worth watching, even if the effect is minor /
I didn’t mean to come across as rude; just trying to be thorough /

 

[JHZR2]

I get it that 16 oz in 7.5 qt is tiny and risk is low /
I was just looking for technical clarity on long-term compatibility with Toyota SLLC, Subaru, and GM coolants before adding anything /
The droplet comment on water-wetter stuff shows why it’s worth watching, even if the effect is minor /
I didn’t mean to come across as rude; just trying to be thorough /

Yeah but your anticipated technical clarity is murky. What test, what objective quality data do you expect? What phenomena do you think might happen? What is the burden of proof that you expect from the company? A lab test? A 10 year, 100k mile test? What scenario would close the technical knowledge gap?

 

[StarCaller]

.

 

[StarCaller]

Yeah but your anticipated technical clarity is murky. What test, what objective quality data do you expect? What phenomena do you think might happen? What is the burden of proof that you expect from the company? A lab test? A 10 year, 100k mile test? What scenario would close the technical knowledge gap?

I’m not expecting a decade-long lab program. I just wanted to know whether their additive chemistry had been evaluated with the major coolant families I’m using, or if there were any known incompatibilities. Even a simple statement like “we’ve mixed it with Toyota SLLC and haven’t seen precipitation, gel formation, or material-compatibility issues at normal dosages” would have been enough.
I’m not assuming a failure mechanism. I just try to avoid mixing chemistries blindly, especially in systems that stay in service for years. That’s all I was aiming for.

 

[Stimp]

I’ve mixed it with Toyota SLLC and didn’t see precipitation, gel formation, or any issues. Ran it in the engine and hybrid system of a 2004 Prius.

 

[Revving2Redline]

I used it at only 75% of the additive needed as I was doing one part hillbilly math and one part "close enough for govt work" mentality. I have more faith in the pink stuff than I do the Biotech; its viscosity teeters extremely low and unless I was running a 10w30 Pennzoil Platinum in a 5w20 specification car, Its a bit to close for comfort. Buy a quart of Redline 5w30 HP and use it at three ounces per quart.