Originally Posted by Rat407
What is sad is people will follow his recommendation.
And it won't hurt a thing ... !
What is sad is people will follow his recommendation.
And it won't hurt a thing ... !
Stay away from 0W16 & 0W20 in one mechanic's opinion.
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even today engine tolerances vary! girlfriends new 13 malibu 2.5L DI sucked a qt of spec 5-20 semi syn in 2 thou when new, enter synthetic 10-30 end of consumption almost, then passing 50 thou it gets worse so 5-40 synthetic is used until trading as its taking a qt on a thou, warranty long gone as is the crapy GM product!!
Originally Posted by David1
I listen to the magic mechanic show and he is always talking about how the new thinner oils cause tremendous wear on engines. He says it's not the manufacturer's fault. That engine will get like 4 to 10 miles extra out of tank of gas. using thinner oil . So car companies are being forced to tell people to use these super-thin oils that cant takes the heat and if you live in a very hot area it's even worse.
He says 0W30 is perfect...
He also says if you use the 0w16 your engine will be worn out at 100K miles. Compared if you used 0W30 or 5W30 and get 300K or even 400k and yes he likes Amsoil. He is dead set against 0w20 and this new 0w16 is just crazy according to the magic mechanic
So what do you all think about this?
Id say - show me- don't tell me.
Take a look at the UOA's on auto engines running both grades and you will find that there is no appreciable iron/FE PPM difference in the 2 if factory OCI is followed.
There are hundreds of sample to look at.
The thinner grade 20 typically contains a higher amount of superior quality base stock and better additive packs to compensate.
UD
I listen to the magic mechanic show and he is always talking about how the new thinner oils cause tremendous wear on engines. He says it's not the manufacturer's fault. That engine will get like 4 to 10 miles extra out of tank of gas. using thinner oil . So car companies are being forced to tell people to use these super-thin oils that cant takes the heat and if you live in a very hot area it's even worse.
He says 0W30 is perfect...
He also says if you use the 0w16 your engine will be worn out at 100K miles. Compared if you used 0W30 or 5W30 and get 300K or even 400k and yes he likes Amsoil. He is dead set against 0w20 and this new 0w16 is just crazy according to the magic mechanic
So what do you all think about this?
Id say - show me- don't tell me.
Take a look at the UOA's on auto engines running both grades and you will find that there is no appreciable iron/FE PPM difference in the 2 if factory OCI is followed.
There are hundreds of sample to look at.
The thinner grade 20 typically contains a higher amount of superior quality base stock and better additive packs to compensate.
UD
I used to put synthetic 5W30 in a Honda K24 spec'd for 0W20 after seeing how thin 0W20 got after a few hard stoplight runs. Ran 2 intervals on 5W30 and the CEL came on for a valve sensor. My mechanic said it was most likely caused by running thicker oil and throwing the engine off. Put 0w20 in and no issues since.
So yeah, it may cause it to wear out quicker, but it isn't helping the engine run any better. I've been sticking to OEM specs since.
So yeah, it may cause it to wear out quicker, but it isn't helping the engine run any better. I've been sticking to OEM specs since.
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by glock19
It's tough to know who to listen to.
On one hand, we have the "magic" mechanic who hosts a small-time radio show in Florida. On the other, we have professional engineers who went spent years studying engineering, got degrees, and have spent years working for a major auto manufacturer designing engines that have been put into millions of vehicles.
You mean the same engineers that put 3 threads in the head for plugs, un hardened 4th gear input shafts, the 4-6-8, Honda VCM, the sludge prone engines or the ones that designed every other automotive engineering failure?
You have this all backwards, engineers have little input into the oil oil spec other than the engine wont blow up during warranty or they start having failures.
Oil specs mostly come from protecting multi billion dollar carbon credits USA or today emissions per km (Europe) or other bogus money making schemes some paper pusher can gin up.
There are very very few engines that only spec one grade worldwide, most engines can run on almost anything you can think of.
Here we go-the underground theories come out........by a mechanic never the less.
Originally Posted by glock19
It's tough to know who to listen to.
On one hand, we have the "magic" mechanic who hosts a small-time radio show in Florida. On the other, we have professional engineers who went spent years studying engineering, got degrees, and have spent years working for a major auto manufacturer designing engines that have been put into millions of vehicles.
You mean the same engineers that put 3 threads in the head for plugs, un hardened 4th gear input shafts, the 4-6-8, Honda VCM, the sludge prone engines or the ones that designed every other automotive engineering failure?
You have this all backwards, engineers have little input into the oil oil spec other than the engine wont blow up during warranty or they start having failures.
Oil specs mostly come from protecting multi billion dollar carbon credits USA or today emissions per km (Europe) or other bogus money making schemes some paper pusher can gin up.
There are very very few engines that only spec one grade worldwide, most engines can run on almost anything you can think of.
Here we go-the underground theories come out........by a mechanic never the less.
Last edited:
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Originally Posted by avacado11
My mechanic said it was most likely caused by running thicker oil and throwing the engine off.
That mechanic could not be more wrong. I've been running 10W30 in my Accord for a couple of years. Runs like a dream. The actual Honda oem manuals from other parts of the world spec W30 oils for the Accord.
My mechanic said it was most likely caused by running thicker oil and throwing the engine off.
That mechanic could not be more wrong. I've been running 10W30 in my Accord for a couple of years. Runs like a dream. The actual Honda oem manuals from other parts of the world spec W30 oils for the Accord.
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by glock19
It's tough to know who to listen to.
On one hand, we have the "magic" mechanic who hosts a small-time radio show in Florida. On the other, we have professional engineers who went spent years studying engineering, got degrees, and have spent years working for a major auto manufacturer designing engines that have been put into millions of vehicles.
You mean the same engineers that put 3 threads in the head for plugs, un hardened 4th gear input shafts, the 4-6-8, Honda VCM, the sludge prone engines or the ones that designed every other automotive engineering failure?
You have this all backwards, engineers have little input into the oil oil spec other than the engine wont blow up during warranty or they start having failures.
Oil specs mostly come from protecting multi billion dollar carbon credits USA or today emissions per km (Europe) or other bogus money making schemes some paper pusher can gin up.
There are very very few engines that only spec one grade worldwide, most engines can run on almost anything you can think of.
Here we go-the underground theories come out........by a mechanic never the less.
No underground theory but fact. Years ago Honda came right out and said the reason for light oils and long OCI was to "appear green" in the US market. Fact, carbon credits are worth billions and can be sold and traded to other companies.
Sure some engines do fine with lighter oils I don't see anyone here claiming they don't but many engines do not, it is also true that some engines "spec'd" for lighter oils do better on heavier oils.
Mobil actually gives their thicker oils a better wear rating.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/07/full-14074-34111-2019_07_04_9_11_25.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by glock19
It's tough to know who to listen to.
On one hand, we have the "magic" mechanic who hosts a small-time radio show in Florida. On the other, we have professional engineers who went spent years studying engineering, got degrees, and have spent years working for a major auto manufacturer designing engines that have been put into millions of vehicles.
You mean the same engineers that put 3 threads in the head for plugs, un hardened 4th gear input shafts, the 4-6-8, Honda VCM, the sludge prone engines or the ones that designed every other automotive engineering failure?
You have this all backwards, engineers have little input into the oil oil spec other than the engine wont blow up during warranty or they start having failures.
Oil specs mostly come from protecting multi billion dollar carbon credits USA or today emissions per km (Europe) or other bogus money making schemes some paper pusher can gin up.
There are very very few engines that only spec one grade worldwide, most engines can run on almost anything you can think of.
Here we go-the underground theories come out........by a mechanic never the less.
No underground theory but fact. Years ago Honda came right out and said the reason for light oils and long OCI was to "appear green" in the US market. Fact, carbon credits are worth billions and can be sold and traded to other companies.
Sure some engines do fine with lighter oils I don't see anyone here claiming they don't but many engines do not, it is also true that some engines "spec'd" for lighter oils do better on heavier oils.
Mobil actually gives their thicker oils a better wear rating.
Originally Posted by David1
I listen to the magic mechanic show and he is always talking about how the new thinner oils cause tremendous wear on engines. He says it's not the manufacturer's fault. That engine will get like 4 to 10 miles extra out of tank of gas. using thinner oil . So car companies are being forced to tell people to use these super-thin oils that cant takes the heat and if you live in a very hot area it's even worse.
He says 0W30 is perfect...
He also says if you use the 0w16 your engine will be worn out at 100K miles. Compared if you used 0W30 or 5W30 and get 300K or even 400k and yes he likes Amsoil. He is dead set against 0w20 and this new 0w16 is just crazy according to the magic mechanic
So what do you all think about this?
He is bloviating, totally unencumbered by anything resembling FACTS or EVIDENCE.
I listen to the magic mechanic show and he is always talking about how the new thinner oils cause tremendous wear on engines. He says it's not the manufacturer's fault. That engine will get like 4 to 10 miles extra out of tank of gas. using thinner oil . So car companies are being forced to tell people to use these super-thin oils that cant takes the heat and if you live in a very hot area it's even worse.
He says 0W30 is perfect...
He also says if you use the 0w16 your engine will be worn out at 100K miles. Compared if you used 0W30 or 5W30 and get 300K or even 400k and yes he likes Amsoil. He is dead set against 0w20 and this new 0w16 is just crazy according to the magic mechanic
So what do you all think about this?
He is bloviating, totally unencumbered by anything resembling FACTS or EVIDENCE.
I think that joe consumer doesn't keep a car long enough to notice a difference in wear between 0w16 and 0w20 and 5w30.
If the goal is to get you to your next trade in at the dealer at 100k, then any oil will do just fine.
The oil is the last thing I would worry about, at 100k people may have ripped seats, or loose suspension parts and just generally ready to dump a car for something new in this disposable society.
Most people think of cars as appliances anyways.
If the goal is to get you to your next trade in at the dealer at 100k, then any oil will do just fine.
The oil is the last thing I would worry about, at 100k people may have ripped seats, or loose suspension parts and just generally ready to dump a car for something new in this disposable society.
Most people think of cars as appliances anyways.
Originally Posted by avacado11
I used to put synthetic 5W30 in a Honda K24 spec'd for 0W20 after seeing how thin 0W20 got after a few hard stoplight runs. Ran 2 intervals on 5W30 and the CEL came on for a valve sensor. My mechanic said it was most likely caused by running thicker oil and throwing the engine off. Put 0w20 in and no issues since.
So yeah, it may cause it to wear out quicker, but it isn't helping the engine run any better. I've been sticking to OEM specs since.
I doubt that's why the valve sensor warning appeared, it's likely just a coincidence. If you check the ROW recommendations for that same engine I bet it would be 0w30 or 5w30 with no problems at all.
I used to put synthetic 5W30 in a Honda K24 spec'd for 0W20 after seeing how thin 0W20 got after a few hard stoplight runs. Ran 2 intervals on 5W30 and the CEL came on for a valve sensor. My mechanic said it was most likely caused by running thicker oil and throwing the engine off. Put 0w20 in and no issues since.
So yeah, it may cause it to wear out quicker, but it isn't helping the engine run any better. I've been sticking to OEM specs since.
I doubt that's why the valve sensor warning appeared, it's likely just a coincidence. If you check the ROW recommendations for that same engine I bet it would be 0w30 or 5w30 with no problems at all.
Originally Posted by Trav
No underground theory but fact. Years ago Honda came right out and said the reason for light oils and long OCI was to "appear green" in the US market. Fact, carbon credits are worth billions and can be sold and traded to other companies.
Sure some engines do fine with lighter oils I don't see anyone here claiming they don't but many engines do not, it is also true that some engines "spec'd" for lighter oils do better on heavier oils.
Mobil actually gives their thicker oils a better wear rating.
If you're going to compare oils, you should probably use the same line of oils and not 2 different ones.
No underground theory but fact. Years ago Honda came right out and said the reason for light oils and long OCI was to "appear green" in the US market. Fact, carbon credits are worth billions and can be sold and traded to other companies.
Sure some engines do fine with lighter oils I don't see anyone here claiming they don't but many engines do not, it is also true that some engines "spec'd" for lighter oils do better on heavier oils.
Mobil actually gives their thicker oils a better wear rating.
If you're going to compare oils, you should probably use the same line of oils and not 2 different ones.
Originally Posted by SevenBizzos
I'll wait here for the published study that supports what he's saying.
You will likely have to pay for the research. It exists in abundance, but very little of it is free. None of the research I've seen shows increased engine life with thin oils.
Shannow posted a very interesting study about oil viscosity, ring+cylinder liner wear and the special (read, more expensive) parts that are used to mitigate the accelerated wear.
The conclusion seemed to be a simple one. Engines life can be engineered to be, within reason, what ever they choose. The only difference is the quality and technology in the parts used. Pistons with advanced coatings, rings with coatings other than chrome, liner coating types and finishes, etc.
Dirt bike/kart engines moved to Nikasil liners to reduce the wear exhibited in cast iron cylinders of 55HP 125cc engines. Cylinder life increased six fold.
My point remains, uber thin oils contaminated with soot, combustion by products and fuel dilution is empirically known to accelerate wear in conventional engines. Choose a quality oil and change it as frequently as necessary. Some high quality engines are very easy on oil. Some engines are not. Short of many years of accumulated data, a safe choice is to change the oil at the severe service schedule.
I'll wait here for the published study that supports what he's saying.
You will likely have to pay for the research. It exists in abundance, but very little of it is free. None of the research I've seen shows increased engine life with thin oils.
Shannow posted a very interesting study about oil viscosity, ring+cylinder liner wear and the special (read, more expensive) parts that are used to mitigate the accelerated wear.
The conclusion seemed to be a simple one. Engines life can be engineered to be, within reason, what ever they choose. The only difference is the quality and technology in the parts used. Pistons with advanced coatings, rings with coatings other than chrome, liner coating types and finishes, etc.
Dirt bike/kart engines moved to Nikasil liners to reduce the wear exhibited in cast iron cylinders of 55HP 125cc engines. Cylinder life increased six fold.
My point remains, uber thin oils contaminated with soot, combustion by products and fuel dilution is empirically known to accelerate wear in conventional engines. Choose a quality oil and change it as frequently as necessary. Some high quality engines are very easy on oil. Some engines are not. Short of many years of accumulated data, a safe choice is to change the oil at the severe service schedule.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
The biggest risk to engine longevity lies solely at the feet of vehicle owners.
A. Never checks oil level.
B. Forgets, and thus extends oci past mfc recommendation.
Most ROW oil recommendations come with much longer OCI. This must also be considered when citing that thicker is recommended in other locations. But if you are a member of this forum, one who's on top of your maintenance, i don't forsee any issues using the recommended viscosity. 20 v 30 will be of little consequence.
A. Never checks oil level.
B. Forgets, and thus extends oci past mfc recommendation.
Most ROW oil recommendations come with much longer OCI. This must also be considered when citing that thicker is recommended in other locations. But if you are a member of this forum, one who's on top of your maintenance, i don't forsee any issues using the recommended viscosity. 20 v 30 will be of little consequence.
I just changed the oil in a 01 Crown Vic cop car I picked up back in January. First time I've ever poured 0w20 in anything. It was a police chief's personal car, I think the engine is barely broken in. First full tank on the new oil was my best mpg so far, 24+.
Exactly.. 0w20 oil is just for better MPG... However, you get more wear... I listen to the magic mechanic show and he will tell people over and over that and he prefers AMSOIL.. that at least in FL the 0w20 and 0W16 oils wil breakdown in the extreme heat and cause engine wear. He says to use 0W30 and you will get more protection...
Now I use 5W30 b.c my car calls for 5W20 and I feel that's to thin...
Also Magic Mechanic says that EPA makes car engineers recommend the thinner oils for better MPG... but they dont think of long term wear.
Now I use 5W30 b.c my car calls for 5W20 and I feel that's to thin...
Also Magic Mechanic says that EPA makes car engineers recommend the thinner oils for better MPG... but they dont think of long term wear.
Originally Posted by Spector
evidence, needed, not opinions.
If you delve in, there is some evidence in the Mfg's own words. They say (in so many words) that thins are for CAFE, and provides "adequate" protection. For turbos and severe duty, higher viscosities are recommended.
Why do Mfg's spec a 0-20 or a 5-20 only in the USA, while the rest of the globe for the exact same engine spec a 5-30 or 10-30? .......think......CAFE!
evidence, needed, not opinions.
If you delve in, there is some evidence in the Mfg's own words. They say (in so many words) that thins are for CAFE, and provides "adequate" protection. For turbos and severe duty, higher viscosities are recommended.
Why do Mfg's spec a 0-20 or a 5-20 only in the USA, while the rest of the globe for the exact same engine spec a 5-30 or 10-30? .......think......CAFE!
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by Spector
evidence, needed, not opinions.
If you delve in, there is some evidence in the Mfg's own words. They say (in so many words) that thins are for CAFE, and provides "adequate" protection. For turbos and severe duty, higher viscosities are recommended.
Why do Mfg's spec a 0-20 or a 5-20 only in the USA, while the rest of the globe for the exact same engine spec a 5-30 or 10-30? .......think......CAFE!
Bingo. That's proof positive to me that the thinner oils are generally to satisfy US CAFE laws.
Originally Posted by Spector
evidence, needed, not opinions.
If you delve in, there is some evidence in the Mfg's own words. They say (in so many words) that thins are for CAFE, and provides "adequate" protection. For turbos and severe duty, higher viscosities are recommended.
Why do Mfg's spec a 0-20 or a 5-20 only in the USA, while the rest of the globe for the exact same engine spec a 5-30 or 10-30? .......think......CAFE!
Bingo. That's proof positive to me that the thinner oils are generally to satisfy US CAFE laws.
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by Spector
evidence, needed, not opinions.
If you delve in, there is some evidence in the Mfg's own words. They say (in so many words) that thins are for CAFE, and provides "adequate" protection. For turbos and severe duty, higher viscosities are recommended.
Why do Mfg's spec a 0-20 or a 5-20 only in the USA, while the rest of the globe for the exact same engine spec a 5-30 or 10-30? .......think......CAFE!
Exactly! I bought a 2019 Corolla Hatchback this year. In the USA owners Manual it states 0W-16, The Australian Owners manual states you can use up to 15W-40
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/07/full-61692-34213-k.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by Spector
evidence, needed, not opinions.
If you delve in, there is some evidence in the Mfg's own words. They say (in so many words) that thins are for CAFE, and provides "adequate" protection. For turbos and severe duty, higher viscosities are recommended.
Why do Mfg's spec a 0-20 or a 5-20 only in the USA, while the rest of the globe for the exact same engine spec a 5-30 or 10-30? .......think......CAFE!
Exactly! I bought a 2019 Corolla Hatchback this year. In the USA owners Manual it states 0W-16, The Australian Owners manual states you can use up to 15W-40
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Trav
No underground theory but fact. Years ago Honda came right out and said the reason for light oils and long OCI was to "appear green" in the US market. Fact, carbon credits are worth billions and can be sold and traded to other companies.
Sure some engines do fine with lighter oils I don't see anyone here claiming they don't but many engines do not, it is also true that some engines "spec'd" for lighter oils do better on heavier oils.
Mobil actually gives their thicker oils a better wear rating.
If you're going to compare oils, you should probably use the same line of oils and not 2 different ones.
+1.Charts and statistics can be misleading to suit ones agenda.
Originally Posted by Trav
No underground theory but fact. Years ago Honda came right out and said the reason for light oils and long OCI was to "appear green" in the US market. Fact, carbon credits are worth billions and can be sold and traded to other companies.
Sure some engines do fine with lighter oils I don't see anyone here claiming they don't but many engines do not, it is also true that some engines "spec'd" for lighter oils do better on heavier oils.
Mobil actually gives their thicker oils a better wear rating.
If you're going to compare oils, you should probably use the same line of oils and not 2 different ones.
+1.Charts and statistics can be misleading to suit ones agenda.
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