Started a big job on the Carrera

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RooflessVW

RooflessVW

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New IMS bearing going in, partly for my own piece of mind, partly because I know every potential buyer and tire kicker will ask about it if/when it comes time to sell.

I got it up in the air and got my first good news today, a sump with no chain guide pieces, babbit/steel shavings, or bits of IMS bearing seal material. Was pleased to see the pickup screen had nothing in it, especially since someone has been in here before and was heavy-handed with the Drei-Bond.

All clean so far:
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
 
Greetings Roofless-
In my opinion, this IMS bearing issue is internet hysteria. I replaced mine when I was in there doing the clutch. Since most of the work to R&R the bearing was already done- why not?
My IMS bearing was absolutely like new, as if it just left the factory. Super smooth and no play. In my opinion again, lots of these bearings are replaced for no reason but for "just in case someone asks".
A Porsche rep told me the cause of failure is infrequent oil changes and acid eats these bearings. Perhaps Porsche could have avoided all this if 15K mile oil changes were not specified in the maintenance schedule? I did mine every 2.6K mile.
Anyway, get a ceramic bearing. The Porsche factory replacement is ceramic. That OE bearing was a common off the shelf industrial ball bearing used in electric motors, alternators, etc. and costs about $18. If you go the OE route, get the NSK (OE) and remove the rear seal for additional lubrication.
I think you maybe surprised to see how good that bearing looks after you remove it judging from the internal appearance of your engine. Keep us posted on your progress.
 
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
Do you have to drop the motor for this job? Split the cases?

Scott


Depends on the year. Up to 2004, no. 2005 to 2008 yes
 
Willbur, I agree. I purchased an NSK bearing and updated center stud kit from Pelican Parts and it is going in without the clutch-side seal. At 174k miles on my Carrera, I think if the bearing was going to pop it would have by now, but - I figured it would be a selling point when it comes time and, well, I'm bored. After seeing the condition of the sump plate and pickup screen, I have no doubt that I'm replacing a serviceable bearing.

Scott, I have an M96/03, and as far as I know it is original to the car. Factory rebuilds (with the larger, non-serviceable bearing) should have an "AT" in the he serial number. I really won't know until I pull the flywheel - it may have been replaced at some point.
 
Agree, overblown issue. You will have peace of mind though and it is an expensive proposition if you lose the gamble. I have two perfectly fine IMS bearings on my shelf of memories...

What replacement are you using?


Never mind, you answered as I was typing the question:)
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Trav
Looks great but if you don't mind me asking, was there a reason you didn't go with the IMS kit and pressure feed mod?

Because that one part easily exceeds 10% (possibly 15%) of the entire value of my car.

I'm not putting an $1800 part (more with labor because there's no warranty on a part installed by a home gamer) into a 174k mile M96.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Looks great but if you don't mind me asking, was there a reason you didn't go with the IMS kit and pressure feed mod?



No need for oil pressure feed kit. That IMS bearing is 1/3 submerged in oil anyway. It gets all the oil it could ever want. One old remedy was to simply remove the clutch side seal and get even more oil.
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Willbur, I agree. I purchased an NSK bearing and updated center stud kit from Pelican Parts and it is going in without the clutch-side seal. At 174k miles on my Carrera, I think if the bearing was going to pop it would have by now, but - I figured it would be a selling point when it comes time and, well, I'm bored. After seeing the condition of the sump plate and pickup screen, I have no doubt that I'm replacing a serviceable bearing.

Scott, I have an M96/03, and as far as I know it is original to the car. Factory rebuilds (with the larger, non-serviceable bearing) should have an "AT" in the he serial number. I really won't know until I pull the flywheel - it may have been replaced at some point.


I think you are probably ok even @174K miles. These failures typically happen 35-60. After that you're most likely safe LOL


This is a big job and need special tools to hold camshafts and crank in position (but you know that)
 
It's interesting, the Pelican Parts method has you use set screws to hold the IMS shaft from turning, only locking bank 1-3 and removing the tensioners for the bank 1-3 and IMS chains.

Saves me the trouble of trying to lock the 4-6 cams which is a huge pain with the engine installed.
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Trav
Looks great but if you don't mind me asking, was there a reason you didn't go with the IMS kit and pressure feed mod?

Because that one part easily exceeds 10% (possibly 15%) of the entire value of my car.

I'm not putting an $1800 part (more with labor because there's no warranty on a part installed by a home gamer) into a 174k mile M96.


I understand your point, I was thinking this one.

https://www.europeanpartssolution.com/ims-bearing-upgrade-kit
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Trav
Looks great but if you don't mind me asking, was there a reason you didn't go with the IMS kit and pressure feed mod?

Because that one part easily exceeds 10% (possibly 15%) of the entire value of my car.

I'm not putting an $1800 part (more with labor because there's no warranty on a part installed by a home gamer) into a 174k mile M96.

I understand your point, I was thinking this one.

https://www.europeanpartssolution.com/ims-bearing-upgrade-kit

The EPS bearing is a rehash of the first Flat 6 Innovations design - that was moved on from. I don't care for their method of oiling either. Siphoning unfiltered oil from the oil pump through the drive key and filling the IMS with oil while it spins at high RPM doesn't sit well with me as a good design.

The only legitimate IMS designs, in my opinion, are offered by LN and Pelican Parts. LN has a range of thoroughly engineered options, and Pelican Parts offers a new NSK bearing with an updated seal and center stud. As Willbur said, the IMS bearing is partially submerged in oil and surrounded by chains throwing oil everywhere. The only IMS design that needs an oil feed is the plain bearing IMS Solution, and it gets fresh filtered oil from a sandwich plate.
 
The oil pressure kit from EPS is actually unnecessary (if I recall correctly in my conversations with them). Its optional to install and is included for those people that believe the cause of the failures is lack of lubrication. A suspenders and belt solution. You are correct regarding the unfiltered oil but the greater concern is the marginal oil pump capacity. It will be diverting part of the oil supply to the IMS and may be unable to keep up with engine requirements.
 
Thanks for that info, I didn't realize they were feeding directly off the pump. That does not sound like the greatest of ideas to me either, I guess you could say all oil in the sump is filtered and the bearing is as hard as the oil pump components but that another discussion.
Personally I like the pressure roller bearing with reinforced cage design better than the partially submerged ball bearing which just by the fact there are many reported failures of the ball bearing design that wasn't their best idea either the plain bearing with filtered pressure feed would probably be the best of all.

Looking forward to seeing what condition yours is in, hope it goes well and you find nothing wrong, at least then there is no worry about when the thing will go out.
 
Willbur do they use any sort of restriction in that line to prevent it scavenging off too much flow and lowering the oil pressure? If not you are spot on that sounds like a possible problem.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Willbur do they use any sort of restriction in that line to prevent it scavenging off too much flow and lowering the oil pressure? If not you are spot on that sounds like a possible problem.

The metering device is the size of the orifice machined into the supplied oil pump drive shaft, and I suppose the size of the hole you punch into the case.

Not a fan of the design.
 
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