SpectraSyn, SpectraSyn Plus & SpectraSyn Elite
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Industrial gear oils for one
MolaKule
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In addition to gear lubes, the higher viscosity PAO's are often used to increase film strength in finished PCMO's.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by buster
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Only oil I've known to have mPAO is Driven: "A common thread with Driven Racing Oil products is use of a new type of premium synthetic base stock developed in 2013 by ExxonMobil. Called "SpectraSyn Elite 150" and known by lubricant chemists as metallocene polyalphaolefin (mPAO), it uses metallocene catalyst technology. Driven Racing Oil's mPAO base offers an improved viscosity index, better shear stability and enhanced low temperature performance, none of which are available with PAO-based synthetic or petroleum based lubricants. The cost of an mPAO base stock is higher than conventional PAO base stocks and that's why ExxonMobil doesn't use an mPAO base in its own, Mobil 1 product line."
--- --- http://www.corvettemagazine.com/tec...um-synthetic-oil-line-driven-racing-oil/
Originally Posted by sloinker
Good reading. Looks like they support the use of PAO/mPao/AN in their recommended formulations and while they sell esters, with the exception of AN's, they don't show them as being used in any formulation for motor oil. Wonder why?
Page 20, the Esterex:
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Only oil I've known to have mPAO is Driven: "A common thread with Driven Racing Oil products is use of a new type of premium synthetic base stock developed in 2013 by ExxonMobil. Called "SpectraSyn Elite 150" and known by lubricant chemists as metallocene polyalphaolefin (mPAO), it uses metallocene catalyst technology. Driven Racing Oil's mPAO base offers an improved viscosity index, better shear stability and enhanced low temperature performance, none of which are available with PAO-based synthetic or petroleum based lubricants. The cost of an mPAO base stock is higher than conventional PAO base stocks and that's why ExxonMobil doesn't use an mPAO base in its own, Mobil 1 product line."
--- --- http://www.corvettemagazine.com/tec...um-synthetic-oil-line-driven-racing-oil/
Originally Posted by sloinker
Good reading. Looks like they support the use of PAO/mPao/AN in their recommended formulations and while they sell esters, with the exception of AN's, they don't show them as being used in any formulation for motor oil. Wonder why?
Page 20, the Esterex:
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by buster
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Only oil I've known to have mPAO is Driven: "A common thread with Driven Racing Oil products is use of a new type of premium synthetic base stock developed in 2013 by ExxonMobil. Called "SpectraSyn Elite 150" and known by lubricant chemists as metallocene polyalphaolefin (mPAO), it uses metallocene catalyst technology. Driven Racing Oil's mPAO base offers an improved viscosity index, better shear stability and enhanced low temperature performance, none of which are available with PAO-based synthetic or petroleum based lubricants. The cost of an mPAO base stock is higher than conventional PAO base stocks and that's why ExxonMobil doesn't use an mPAO base in its own, Mobil 1 product line."
--- --- http://www.corvettemagazine.com/tec...um-synthetic-oil-line-driven-racing-oil/
Originally Posted by sloinker
Good reading. Looks like they support the use of PAO/mPao/AN in their recommended formulations and while they sell esters, with the exception of AN's, they don't show them as being used in any formulation for motor oil. Wonder why?
Page 20, the Esterex:
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if Mobil 1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
Originally Posted by buster
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Only oil I've known to have mPAO is Driven: "A common thread with Driven Racing Oil products is use of a new type of premium synthetic base stock developed in 2013 by ExxonMobil. Called "SpectraSyn Elite 150" and known by lubricant chemists as metallocene polyalphaolefin (mPAO), it uses metallocene catalyst technology. Driven Racing Oil's mPAO base offers an improved viscosity index, better shear stability and enhanced low temperature performance, none of which are available with PAO-based synthetic or petroleum based lubricants. The cost of an mPAO base stock is higher than conventional PAO base stocks and that's why ExxonMobil doesn't use an mPAO base in its own, Mobil 1 product line."
--- --- http://www.corvettemagazine.com/tec...um-synthetic-oil-line-driven-racing-oil/
Originally Posted by sloinker
Good reading. Looks like they support the use of PAO/mPao/AN in their recommended formulations and while they sell esters, with the exception of AN's, they don't show them as being used in any formulation for motor oil. Wonder why?
Page 20, the Esterex:
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if Mobil 1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
Originally Posted by sloinker
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
So would 3% be better, or 4%?
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
So would 3% be better, or 4%?
Originally Posted by sloinker
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by sloinker
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
So would 3% be better, or 4%?
Don't know.
Sometimes you need more. ... Tell me if this would make a great racing oil: .......
There is a very interesting patented oil out now that uses about half ester in its base oil, along with other base oils that have a high aniline point, all for piston carbon dissolving action. Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10w30:
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2018/06/full-74451-26987-capture11111.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Code
20% PAO
50% polyol ester (POE)
10% alkylated naphthalene (AN)
0% viscosity-index improver (VII)
20% additive package
(Likely formulation according to the patent)
Polyol ester (POE) and alkylated naphthalene (AN) are base stocks with high solvency, which perform the engine cleaning.
The additive package is the standard used in other Valvoline oils.
Note the absence of viscosity-index improver (VII). It's technically a monograde oil.
It's a SAE 10w30 HDEO with KV100 = 12.0 cSt and HTHSV = 3.9 cP. However, since it has no VII, it can also be legally labeled as a SAE 30.
NOACK = 5.4%
If you think you need it, give it a try. It should work. Don't neglect to get an oversized (if possible), high-capacity fully synthetic oil filter.
Valvoline US patent US20170029734A1... deposits in internal combustion engines
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by sloinker
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
So would 3% be better, or 4%?
Don't know.
Sometimes you need more. ... Tell me if this would make a great racing oil: .......
There is a very interesting patented oil out now that uses about half ester in its base oil, along with other base oils that have a high aniline point, all for piston carbon dissolving action. Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10w30:
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Code
20% PAO
50% polyol ester (POE)
10% alkylated naphthalene (AN)
0% viscosity-index improver (VII)
20% additive package
(Likely formulation according to the patent)
Polyol ester (POE) and alkylated naphthalene (AN) are base stocks with high solvency, which perform the engine cleaning.
The additive package is the standard used in other Valvoline oils.
Note the absence of viscosity-index improver (VII). It's technically a monograde oil.
It's a SAE 10w30 HDEO with KV100 = 12.0 cSt and HTHSV = 3.9 cP. However, since it has no VII, it can also be legally labeled as a SAE 30.
NOACK = 5.4%
If you think you need it, give it a try. It should work. Don't neglect to get an oversized (if possible), high-capacity fully synthetic oil filter.
Valvoline US patent US20170029734A1... deposits in internal combustion engines
Originally Posted by sloinker
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
Oh, no, you are looking at the generic Exxon Mobil synthetic base-stock formulation guide, not at actual commercial oils such as Mobil 1.
You can determine the Group V base-stock content using Fourier-transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy.
Only the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) have ester (POE). Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) do not have any ester (POE). Ester (POE) is good for cleaning but increases wear.
Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) have alkylated naphthalene (AN) instead of ester (POE). The amount is unknown but probably at least about 5 - 10% and possibly up to 20% or so. AN is also good for cleaning but it is not as effective as ester (POE). However, AN does not increase wear as ester (POE) does.
The amount of ester (POE) in the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) is about 5 - 7%. It's not 2% as in the formulation guide. You need at least 5 - 7% so that these Euro oils are effective in cleaning the piston carbon deposits in diesel engines.
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
Oh, no, you are looking at the generic Exxon Mobil synthetic base-stock formulation guide, not at actual commercial oils such as Mobil 1.
You can determine the Group V base-stock content using Fourier-transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy.
Only the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) have ester (POE). Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) do not have any ester (POE). Ester (POE) is good for cleaning but increases wear.
Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) have alkylated naphthalene (AN) instead of ester (POE). The amount is unknown but probably at least about 5 - 10% and possibly up to 20% or so. AN is also good for cleaning but it is not as effective as ester (POE). However, AN does not increase wear as ester (POE) does.
The amount of ester (POE) in the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) is about 5 - 7%. It's not 2% as in the formulation guide. You need at least 5 - 7% so that these Euro oils are effective in cleaning the piston carbon deposits in diesel engines.
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by sloinker
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
Oh, no, you are looking at the generic Exxon Mobil synthetic base-stock formulation guide, not at actual commercial oils such as Mobil 1.
You can determine the Group V base-stock content using Fourier-transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy.
Only the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) have ester (POE). Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) do not have any ester (POE). Ester (POE) is good for cleaning but increases wear.
Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) have alkylated naphthalene (AN) instead of ester (POE). The amount is unknown but probably at least about 5 - 10% and possibly up to 20% or so. AN is also good for cleaning but it is not as effective as ester (POE). However, AN does not increase wear as ester (POE) does.
The amount of ester (POE) in the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) is about 5 - 7%. It's not 2% as in the formulation guide. You need at least 5 - 7% so that these Euro oils are effective in cleaning the piston carbon deposits in diesel engines.
I thought one of the characteristics of ester is lubricity. In my mind I equate more lubricity with less wear. Am I wrong in this assumption?
Originally Posted by sloinker
Ahhh yes. 2% across the board. Wonder if M1 actually sells any of these formulations out of one of their own bottles?
Oh, no, you are looking at the generic Exxon Mobil synthetic base-stock formulation guide, not at actual commercial oils such as Mobil 1.
You can determine the Group V base-stock content using Fourier-transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy.
Only the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) have ester (POE). Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) do not have any ester (POE). Ester (POE) is good for cleaning but increases wear.
Other Mobil 1 flavors (such as vanilla, EP, AP, HM, EP HM, etc.) have alkylated naphthalene (AN) instead of ester (POE). The amount is unknown but probably at least about 5 - 10% and possibly up to 20% or so. AN is also good for cleaning but it is not as effective as ester (POE). However, AN does not increase wear as ester (POE) does.
The amount of ester (POE) in the Mobil 1 Euro flavors (such as FS and ESP) is about 5 - 7%. It's not 2% as in the formulation guide. You need at least 5 - 7% so that these Euro oils are effective in cleaning the piston carbon deposits in diesel engines.
I thought one of the characteristics of ester is lubricity. In my mind I equate more lubricity with less wear. Am I wrong in this assumption?
Originally Posted by sloinker
I thought one of the characteristics of ester is lubricity. In my mind I equate more lubricity with less wear. Am I wrong in this assumption?
Yes and no.
Polyol esters (POE) stick to the surfaces, which reduces wear, but this prevents the AW/EP/FM additives from sticking to the surfaces, which increases wear. The latter effect is more dominant and you get increased wear. In other words, polyol esters (POE) compete with the AW/EP/FM additives for metal surfaces.
![[Linked Image]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0ynI_cwV59nGCeCUh6c6K8wDTF57dsV4vjlm5SxBgSFRUTnGq4Kh0KKxj7_wNazWYPRKKhoqcmOZw_Tdw7sFvaaW_FH9v_ukf9y64fipKqcoXM4oraMBBuCvBkNSx_Oxv_phVmhUdadkyIEIrLUCZwtsk-z08X7DrL1JgxQgsD-_4sRgxOgDhD-UTNeH3V1t9rIBjWL3Yoao1SNVWKksAm3FJeReMf3DU7_bu3ame3sv9ZjUPJzHt_M7MWd9hb8pJTEM9q4aH-N2fHI-NKwJgBu2Xj899SgQXaYYguJjKjucMaZxtZccXpwQyBfB1ZB54ZDVxXTVoc_Ic9FDfsc_lcx2yTe9gjdrBi7jaUiGNqyl9mufsB3T7_4nkF00FyWfPP5RIH_F8IleP0jcva9aqE-xdP46wyx6jyClNEchjMtPf71x7n7H7YJO0cuQRFaLtFxD-LV873Mirs8vjr8AwBNt57LHl9dFrdrZUTzakcUl-BD4P1SG6fSgMCcgTB95rOEswn_R5ywXcGH9jpj6j0-Nk2yX5iGRem5iPjgEMUPWRMR4ntaajsfIDJjKNlrNbHKktk4IrW96dqBhR4Yo-v5XMHEUUI5mxj3BpnwALOGPvGe8RCSVNsPazk8uU1UtFOYlDp-aGtgUsyqmJKDjKH8x24km4Zs6=w800-no?.png "[Linked Image]")
See Page 13:
ExxonMobil Chemical advanced synthetic base stocks
I thought one of the characteristics of ester is lubricity. In my mind I equate more lubricity with less wear. Am I wrong in this assumption?
Yes and no.
Polyol esters (POE) stick to the surfaces, which reduces wear, but this prevents the AW/EP/FM additives from sticking to the surfaces, which increases wear. The latter effect is more dominant and you get increased wear. In other words, polyol esters (POE) compete with the AW/EP/FM additives for metal surfaces.
See Page 13:
ExxonMobil Chemical advanced synthetic base stocks
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by buster
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Thanks for the link, Sir.
Some of us need to know what the [censored] is going on here.
How will it benefit you knowing which PAO component Mobil 1 used?
Originally Posted by buster
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Thanks for the link, Sir.
Some of us need to know what the [censored] is going on here.
How will it benefit you knowing which PAO component Mobil 1 used?
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted by Gokhan
You can determine the Group V base-stock content using Fourier-transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy.
How do you differentiate esterified additive components from that of pure POE's with FTIR?
You can determine the Group V base-stock content using Fourier-transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy.
How do you differentiate esterified additive components from that of pure POE's with FTIR?
Last edited:
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by buster
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Thanks for the link, Sir.
Some of us need to know what the [censored] is going on here.
How will it benefit you knowing which PAO component Mobil 1 used?
There is but one answer, Sir, key word being "need."
I have the sickness, like many others.
And the answer is: "I will sleep better at night."
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
Originally Posted by buster
Link
I guess there is no way to tell which Mobil 1 oils use the SpectraSyn Elite mPAO? Page 29-35
Thanks for the link, Sir.
Some of us need to know what the [censored] is going on here.
How will it benefit you knowing which PAO component Mobil 1 used?
There is but one answer, Sir, key word being "need."
I have the sickness, like many others.
And the answer is: "I will sleep better at night."
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