Special oil for Chrysler FFV engines?

[GT Mike]

I was browsing the 'net and reading up on E85 fuel at www.e85fuel.com since we have an '04 Stratus FFV (it's the infamous 2.7L V6) at the dealership, and in case a customer had a question I didn't have an answer to, I thought I'd have a little more info on them.

One thing this site mentioned was that DaimlerChrysler flex-fuel vehicles require a special oil. My friendly Dodge dealer didn't have a clue about this.

Any ideas? Right now the car is all set up and lot ready, and has a full crankcase of Citgo 10W30. Should I bring it back in the shop and put something else in it?

 

[Highroller]

My manual says that if i were to use E85, i should use only 5W30.

 

[racer12306]

i have heard that when running e85 to use synthetic oil.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

My 2000 GC 3.3 FFV manual says it requires a special oil when using E85, but doesn't say what it is. I think there is a Chrysler spec number listed though. I'll check it tomorrow.

 

[Ross]

Moparguy, I have the same year and type van. Have you tried the e-85? I have been thinking about trying it. It's about .70/gallon cheaper up here.

 

[Highroller]

My Nissan Titan manual says that using E85 in cold weather below 0 degrees fahrenheit, you will experience hard startup/hesitation until car is fully warmed up. Also, because of the characteristics of ethanol, it says you will also see fuel consumption vs regular gasoline. In other words, E85 is a hassle in my honest opinion. Not many ethanol stations around, plus even though it's cheaper, it consumes more of it therefore, eliminating the mpg advantages over using just regular gas.

 

[blupupher]

Highroller, I have always wonderd why people don't see that. I can understand doing it for the environment and such, but there is really no cost savings.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

I'd like to try a tankful, but I'd have to drive over 30 miles, way down to S/W Clt. to get it. Not worth the expense. Try not to drive anymore then necessary these days. Gas is back up over $2.40 again.

 

[MNgopher]

The cold weather start problem is part of why in the winter time in cold weather states E85 belnds are dialed back from 85% ethanol to a lower percentage.

 

[Highroller]

So.. you have to mix/blend the gas everytime you want to fill up with E85 eh... im not sure about how this works, so you have to calculate about certain percentages like 85% ethanol and then get some regular unleaded or whatever gas for the other 15% ? Does the ethanol gas stations have gas in their underground tanks also to help blend in ?? Or do we have to drive to another gas station to ge the other percentages?

 

[LC]

I run E85 in my 99 ranger. It has been since new.
It sits outside 24/7 and I have never had a start up problem even at -25, it pops right off.
As for oil I have used TropArtic synblend 5w30 for most of it life and I am now coming to the end of my 2nd run of Mobil 1EP. I will be sending the oil in to Blackstone to see how it fairs with E85 it will have been run 15,000 miles. So far no oil consumption and the truck has been problem free. The truck as of today has 71,400 miles. I run E-85 because it saves me $3.00 or more with each fill up. But if the price is not at least 40 cents less than Reg.Unleaded than it would not be worth it. To offset the 2 to 3 miles less per gallon. And for the past year I have been putting on 600 to 900 miles per week. So that little bit I save adds up.As for this 10% ethonal blend. It really bites my backside that you pay the same as Reg Unleaded with the incentives that the gas companies get from the states and the fedral goverment for blending the price should be lower than reg unleaded.

 

[LC]

I have seen it 2 ways.
1. It comes pre-blend from distributor to the station.
2. The station has straight ethanol brought in and the will blend it with there own station regular unleaded gas.
So no you don't have to blend your own or anything like that. Just pull up to the pump marked E85 and pump just like any other fuel.
They sell it right a long side the reg unleaded and diesel.

 

[Highroller]

Ah... i see.. thanks for the info LC. Im curious, have you ever run E85 with dino oil when ambient temps. are below 0 degrees? If so, how was your startup? Since you mentioned that you used synthetic blend, you might have some advantages over just plain old dino juice. I can see how people with straight dino with E85 during freezing temps will have startup problems. There's been numerous reports to alternative fuel problems along with outside temps. And... some people say outside temps. dont mean a darn thing for the engine... WELL YES IT DOES MEAN SOMETHING! shame on those people for that thought... hehe

 

[Highroller]

I'd also would agree with the use of 5w30 for E85 usage. Thinner is definitely better for startup when approaching this method.

 

[LC]

No I have not run plain Dino. If I did I would run 5w20. I have not had any hard starting with the truck. It has sat outside for days at below zero and has always started.
I know a lot of people that use E85 year round. And it gets cold here in the Northwoods. Most of them use dino oil.
They have Chevy, Chrysler,Dodge and Fords and I have not heard of any starting problems.
I think of lot of this comes from past years when people first started using ethanol. With advances in electronics and computers I feel the so called hard starting is a thing of the past.

 

[MNgopher]

LC is correct, although the vast majority have the distributor do the blending for them. The blend in the tank is seasonally adjusted to account for anticipated weather conditions to come over the period the fuel is to be sold.

Thus, when you want E85, just go to the E85 pump, and theblend should be adjusted automatically by the retailer to deal with cold weather.

 

[Highroller]

i guess it's ok to use E85 if you want to. But for people like me who doesnt see any ethanol stations around and are still skeptical and hate hassles.. no problem with sticking to regular gasoline stuff either. The problem i see with E85 is that you have to use thin weighted oils. Where with regular gas, you can have wide range of choices.

 

[LC]

Getting back to the orginal question.
After some research. I have come to the conculsion there is no need for a special oil.
Any modern day dino, syn or synblend will work fine. Back a few years ago they had a concern that if enough ethanol went by the piston rings and into the oil that reg dino oil would be effected. Much like flooding your engine with gasoline. But with todays ignition systems and fuel managment it is not a problem.
As for running like S---t. I can say I have spoken to many others (most were caravan owners) that run E85 say there vehicle runs better. Other don't notice any changes. It is 105 octane.
Your correct the saving are not much on some vehicles. I can say in my ranger I average about 2 miles to gallon less. As of today E-85 is almost a $1.00 less than reg unleaded in my area. That saves me money! Should the time come, and I can't save money running it I will not use it. I am not promoting it's use. Only trying to share with others how it has worked out for me.

 

[GT Mike]

I talked to another Dodge/Chrysler dealer today, and they told me they do require a special oil (that they didn't even stock!), but couldn't tell me what was special about it.

I was told that ethanol tends to be "drier" than gasoline and could possibly be harder on piston rings and valve guides. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen. This may be the reason behind the special oil requirement.

I'd think that any good quality oil would be fine in it. Since it's a 2.7 and they had their sludge issues, I'd probably suggest a full syn like M1, or a very high quality blend like Schaeffer's 7000. Not necessarily for the E85 aspect, but just to ensure long life out of an engine that has earned a reputation for not delivering such.

I'd just hate to scare someone interested in this car by telling them about the problems this engine has been known to have. I'll have to figure out a clever way around the sludge issue and still get them to install quality oil in it.

As for it running like crap on E85...Never had a problem. Our '04 Stratus starts and runs like a champ on it, and seems to have more power than on gas. I've sold several FFVs and my customers have never reported any issues whatsoever. One person who is a bigtime Mopar guy bought a '00 Caravan FFV from me, and he noticed a very negligible decrease in MPG. Less than 1 MPG less on corn vs. gas.

LC, Where in WI are you that E85 is that cheap? Here in the Omro/Oshkosh area E85 is $1.95, and gasoline is $2.39 unless you get E10 from the E85 station, then it's $2.34. www.uticaenergy.com is the local supplier of E85 (and they own the stations) in this area.

 

[LC]

I am in the northwest part of the state.
Gas here is $2.49
Ethanol is 1.89
Most of my driving is taking place in the west central part of the state.Fuel prices there will vary from 2.34 to 2.49 reg unleaded.(this week)
Ethanol I have seen from 1.79 to 1.99(this week)