!@#$ spark plug doen't want to come out!!!

[mva]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Reduce torque 20% that all. No need for the angle rigmarole.


20% reduction may not be enough - try 50% if you get the antiseize on the mating surfaces.

Here is some food for thought:

The use of anti-seize can significantly increase the tension in a bolt at a given torque.

This paper has some examples at 135 ftlb where the actual bolt tension increased from 25,000 lb to 43,000 lb going from untreated to cleaned and fully coated with antiseize:

http://www.eng.tau.ac.il/~neliaz/Papers_Files/C27.pdf


Bolt Tension = Torque/Kd

Note the "K" factor for various antiseize compounds can be from 0.11 to 0.15. A plain bolt "K" is about 0.3.

Going from K=0.3 to K=0.15 will double the bolt tension at a given torque.

Neverseez lists some "K" values:

http://www.neverseezproducts.com/antiseize.htm

Sparkplugs come precoated with a special plating to prevent seizing and torque specs do not consider adding antiseize or any other additional lubricant. If you insist on using antisieze then it is best to put the torque wrench aside and follow the instructions on the spark plug for how far to turn past hand tight.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Blanket warning statements to protect them from law suits by folks who lather up the plugs and cause misfires nothing more.
Quote:
From Champion:
Quote:
Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.


http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/15797

Nuff said!

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Loobed


Just a FYI:
Buy some dielectric grease and fill each boot. It will help prevent the boot from sticking to the plug the next time you have to change them.



Don't fill each boot. Dielectric grease is non-conductive. Just a light smear around the bottom inside edge of the boot is quite sufficient. Keeps the boot from sticking to the insulator and should help prevent corrosion and voltage leaks. Stuff it full and you get a mess and you might insulate the wire from the plug.

Same goes for anti-seize. A tiny bit goes a long way. I usually just dab a little onto the bottommost plug threads.

Never had a problem with this technique

 

[MetalSlug]

Originally Posted By: mrichards
Originally Posted By: MetalSlug
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
So, where are the guys that say not to use antisieze?

Seriously though, I think the socket is not even engaging the plug. I think OP is bottoming out the rubber grommet on the spark plug end, but the socket is too short to grab the head. T


me ! i never use neversieze, because i change out often , so no need for neversieze ,some peoples wait til 100k miles to change, that when the plug is glue to the head, most ford engine having these plug glue to the head.


So what happens to the yuppie I sell the car to? He doesn't have a clue what spark plugs even do let alone know they have to be changed. He has to pay the price of me being to lazy to put a dab of anti seize on it?

Its just a good practice that saves many hours of frustration and lots of money. If you've ever bought a used car and have one snap off in the back of the head you know exactly what I'm talking about.


keep on read and you will see peoples on this thread agree not use neverseize too.

 

[antiqueshell]

I think it comes down to common sense and judicious use.

If the vehicle has difficult access to plugs and you want to not have to service it as often I say use the anti-sieze, if the job is easy to do and can be done more often go without.

I also say that just putting a little bit of fresh motor oil on the threads may be wise as well.

Just back off of the torque spec to compensate for the lube.

 

[mechtech2]

I have often heard how we should never remove plugs from a hot aluminum head, but experience shows me that taking plugs out of a warm head relaxes the pressure [the aluminum is expanded], and they come out easier.
Temperatures that make aluminum fatigue are not reached in an engine.

 

[Trav]

Thats true, i take them out warm too.
Quote:
Aluminum expands at a rate of 2.8 times more than steel.


http://www.locknstitch.com/sparkpluginserts.htm

 

[Boss302fan]

I just replaced the plugs on a 2004 Impala SS and will not do it again. What a bit** getting the back plugs out, especially the back drivers side plug. My hands bled for a few hours. LOL.... The car will be traded before those plugs get changed again.

I don't even know why I changed them, because the car only has 10K miles on it. I thought because it sits a lot and is 8 years old, the plugs should get replaced. NEVER again. Ha ha ha.

 

[ltslimjim]

How about re-insertion temp?

 

[andyd]

I only take plugs out of a cold engine. I squirt clean oil on the plug and run it in hand tight. Then I give the ratchet a quarter turn. You just need to squeeze the washer, not flatten it.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
How about re-insertion temp?

Take the plugs out when the engine is cold. Start the engine and let it run for 5 minutes, then reinstall the new plugs.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Loobed


Just a FYI:
Buy some dielectric grease and fill each boot. It will help prevent the boot from sticking to the plug the next time you have to change them.



Don't fill each boot. Dielectric grease is non-conductive. Just a light smear around the bottom inside edge of the boot is quite sufficient. Keeps the boot from sticking to the insulator and should help prevent corrosion and voltage leaks. Stuff it full and you get a mess and you might insulate the wire from the plug.

Same goes for anti-seize. A tiny bit goes a long way. I usually just dab a little onto the bottommost plug threads.

Never had a problem with this technique



I exaggerated a little when I said fill up the boot, but for my GMC I had to put a lot int he boot. The first time I only coated the surface a little and the boots stuck after a few thousand miles.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: Loobed


I exaggerated a little when I said fill up the boot, but for my GMC I had to put a lot int he boot. The first time I only coated the surface a little and the boots stuck after a few thousand miles.


Even a very tiny amount of decent tune up grease should do the job if you give a little back and forth twist to spread it once it's in place.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
How about re-insertion temp?

Take the plugs out when the engine is cold. Start the engine and let it run for 5 minutes, then reinstall the new plugs.



Let me know how that works out for ya.

 

[Lyman]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
How about re-insertion temp?

Take the plugs out when the engine is cold. Start the engine and let it run for 5 minutes, then reinstall the new plugs.

Ha Ha Ha that's going to work real well. I would love to see a motor run with no plugs.

 

[boxcartommie22]

i never remove plugs from a hot alum. engine!! the fact is the plug itself expands into the threads.my plugs been in there for 11 years and the lincoln has 61.000 miles on the original plugs..i soaked the wells with pb blaster over night and the plugs came right out really easy. that stuff just soaked right down into the threads.awesome stuff.

 

[Vikas]

What with the guys who ask question and then disappear??

Paging Dave! Paging Dave!!

- Vikas

 

[Trav]

By warm i mean running from cold about two min if its 100f out i wouldn't bother. Basically if the metal feels cold to the touch i just warm it a little.
I remove all plugs then do my compression/leak down test or whatever i am going to do then reinsert the plugs.
The metal is never hot to the touch.

If i get some plugs that feel really scary tight that have seized in the head and may pull the threads then yes i get it hot to pull them then let the cool down to ambient before reinstalling.

Penetrating oils may or may not help, they may help on tapered seat plugs where corrosion has gotten between the plug taper and the head, on plugs with crush washers forget it.
The penetrant will not get past the washer and down those threads enough to help.

Quote:
the fact is the plug itself expands into the threads

The fact is steel (the plug threads) expand 2.8 times less than aluminium. so if you have an aluminium head the threads will expand away from the plug.
This maybe helpful in removing seized plugs in an aluminium head by having the same effect as heating a part around a rusted bolt with a torch to remove it without breaking.

Plugs in iron heads don't make any difference because the steel and iron have similar expansion and contraction rates so unless you could heat one and not the other there will be no difference.
Reinsertion is only done at with both the plug and the head are at ambient temps in aluminium or iron.

 

[ltslimjim]

^Thanks Trav. I like your approach there.

 

[daves66nova]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
What with the guys who ask question and then disappear??

Paging Dave! Paging Dave!!

- Vikas
HAHAHAH,still here,just can't find a good time when the engine is dead cold.I was waiting to have another chance to do it again,then post results.