Spark Knock/Pinging

[ShortBuSX]

I own an 03 Suzuki Aerio thats had spark knock/pinging since it had 18,000 miles on it. Ive taken it in for warranty on this atleast 4 times. First they blame my gas, I used only Shell for the first year, then switch to Chevron and later to no avail. Then they suggested I decarbonize and gave me a product called "Engine Fog" and told me this would fix it...but they didnt do it...so everytime Ive gone back they say I need to decarbonize...I say ** to this, as its been done 4 times! Its clean! Ive used Seafoam, it only masks the problem though and returns soon after. Ive tried pulling it through the PCV and vacume line and yet it still comes back. Ive tried 1 heat range colder plugs...Ive tried copper, platinum and back to iridiums and the stock heat range. My coolant is fresh and oil is always changed at 7500k with 5w30 M1. I switched back and forth between my K&N short ram to the stock airbox...still pings.
After months of battling with the dealership, the Suzuki district rep and corperate headquaters they finally agreed to take another look...but I cant imagine what they could possibly do to remedy the situation/pinging. Would cleaning the EGR help/work? Or what???? Id really like to know what to expect or even the next step to getting rid of this noise!?

 

[unDummy]

Check EGR function.
Check/reset engine timing.
Replace the thermostat.
Check the fuel pressure.
What octane are you using?

 

[Dark Jedi]

If using 87 octane. I would try either mid grade or top grade. what does the engine call for in your manual.

 

[-Clayton-]

Must not have a knock sensor. I would say check timing.
That pinging has probably took a lot of life from your engine, Keep that in mind
What did the plugs look like you took out?

 

[ShortBuSX]

The manual perscribes 87 octane, I tried premium, both the car and I hated it...yeah it didnt ping but it drove sluggishly and cost too much.

And yes, its knock sensor equipt. And all plugs look good.

 

[-Clayton-]

Does it have a distributor?
The knock sensor should cut down the timing before you ever hear it pinging.
Try resetting the computer.

 

[robbobster]

Could be excessive backpressure in your exhaust. Check this as well as what undummy said above.

I'm chasing detonation in my truck right now as well, but its heavily modified.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Not much backpreasure as I have a straight through aftermarket muffler, although I have been wanting to try out a track pipe to replace the second cat.

BTW took the car to the dealership, and of course 62* and breezy today! My mechanic couldnt make it ping, although hed heard it previously. He checked the timing, said it was set perfectly. He hooked up his OBDII tool, tested the EGR and it was working properlly...after all of that he was "stumped" and basiclly gave me back the car with appologies that he couldnt fix it.

So now Im leaning more towards the thermostat, he said the stock one was 190* and I could try a 180*, but others in the past have warned me against this as the ECU wont like the change.

 

[robbobster]

Backpressure can result from a shot cat, which is before your aftermarket exhaust system.

But a bad cat often throws a code (won't always, as in the case of my truck).

With so few miles, a bad cat is unlikely, but not an impossibility.

 

[-Clayton-]

I would advise against a 180* thermostat. That would just be masking the real problem and not to mention the risk of increased fuel dillution, engine wear & consumption.
Although you could try a 180* until you figured out the real problem. Probably couldnt hurt no worse than pinging all the time.
You could sling a rod through the side of it that would take care of the problem all together.

 

[ShortBuSX]

So without throwing alot of money at this problem...now what? What and how do I test next?

 

[-Clayton-]

If it was me and I had another vehicle to drive I would leave it until it was fixed, assuming it was still under warranty.
How long have you driven it like that?
I would be more worried about the long term effects of the pinging/detination. Like more problems down the road. If it keeps up you may soon find out, Like a hole in the piston.

 

[ShortBuSX]

I dont have another vehicle...but I am persistant, theyve tried to brush me off and glaze over this issue for over 20k miles now...I need to make another call to corperate, but Id almost rather have an outside source fix the problem and be done with the headaches.

 

[andyd]

tried an exhaust analysis? find some place to test for NOx. Document your communications with the dlr and service reps. They are basicly hoping that you will give up and go away. Next time you fill it up, use 87 octane. That will make sure it pings when you drive it to the dlr.

 

[robbobster]

How does it run using mid-grade, 89 octane?

Also, if premium fuel quiets the pinging, I'd run it (or 89 if it works) until the problem is fixed.

A few bucks extra (that car's gotta have a small tank) is a lot less than fixing a hole in a piston.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Give me the hole! Seems a new motor is the only thing thats going to get Suzuki to fix it under warranty...but Id still rather find a real solution, otherwise the car drove better on a few onces of Seafoam than it did premium. But Im really just over the band-aid fix.

 

[unDummy]

Skip the seafoam. Give it a full bottle of Gumout Regane, Redline Si-1, Chevron Techron, and Amsoil PI, over your next several tanks of fuel.

Stick with the 89 octane. Not too much more expensive and shouldn't hurt performance.

10 degrees cooler shouldn't be a problem with thermostats. I'd definitely give a cooler thermostat a try.
A simple coolant flush could also help.

Use a PCV catch can to collect any blowby oily moisture which could by a long term cause.

Amsoil powerfoam or seafoam deepcreep the intake after adding the PCV filter.

 

[GoldenRod]

A cooler T-stat is not the answer. Have you determined that the pre-detonation is the result of high operating temperature ? Or are you just assuming ? What is the coolant temperature ? Are there any codes set ? Also, timing is not adjustible on present day cars except for reflashing the PCM. If your coolant sensor is reading cooler than actual, the PCM will advance the timing further than optimal.

 

[ShortBuSX]

Currently I have no way of measuring the coolant temp...I need a scanguage!

Although I did buy a bottle of Gumout Regane and finally found DeepCreep...so I'll give these a try this weekend...but Im not convenced this is the answer either, we will see.

 

[yugrus]

I have the same, but newer car, with 2.3L engine (vs. 2.0L that is in SB’s car).
Same problem when the ambient temp gets over 25C. I have ScanGauge, the timing @ idle is perfect; the operational coolant temp (reported by ECU) is 92C. No codes.
When the intake air temperature gets above 20-25C, the pinging begins. When it is 30-35C, it pings on every moderate throttle. When heat soaked to 50+C (traffic jam), no matter how gentle you press the gas, it rattles like crazy.
The car has knock sensor.

Many owners experience this, so does it sound like wrong fuel maps or inadequate knock sensor behavior because of the software?