Softer brake pedal after bleeding brakes?

[Cooper]

Okay, so I changed the front pads and rotors on my 2001 Toyota RAV4, and inspected the rear shoes and drums, which looked fine. I changed the rotors and pads to Raybestos PG Plus, which sound and feel great. I flushed the m/c and brake lines with Valvoline Synpower brake fluid, and that went fine. I used a one man brake bleeder that you just connect to the bleeder valve on the caliper, and I didn't see any bubbles while bleeding.

The issue is that the brake pedal seems softer than it did before the bleeding. Is this something with the Valvoline fluid? I know that softer brakes maybe air in the line. Braking seems to be just fine, it just seems a little softer.

 

[meep]

did you use dot 3 or 4 fluid? Every time I've used dot4, the pedal has been just slightly softer. Switching back to dot3 firms it back up. Just my experiences...

mike

 

[Trucku]

I think you should bleed it again for good measure. Flush it out completely, since you don't know if and where a air bubble is.

 

[Quest]

I would check for air bubbles in the system and also let the new brake pads/shoes break in a bit to get the proper "bite" before determining it's status.

 

[unDummy]

Did you bleed the rear brakes 1st? do you have ABS?

Rebleed again. Use a pressure bleeder, or a 2nd man to open/close bleeder.

 

[Cooper]

Okay, to answer all relivant questions so far....

I used Valvoline Synpower which says it exceeds DOT 3 and DOT 4. I do not believe any air bubbles are in the line because I didn't see any at all. The procedure that I used was fill the master cylinder, bled the front left, then front right, then rear right, then rear left. Are you saying I should do rear first? What would make a difference? I assumed since the front is closer to what is being pushed out, you should start from the front and work your way back, is this not correct? Why?

 

[Cooper]

Oh yeah, I do not have ABS.

 

[Ramblin Fever]

Had this same issue on the last set of brakes we did on a truck, took us over 20-30 minutes of bleeding the brakes to get them to firm back up. They were not horribly soft, but after driving that truck for 7yrs prior, I knew that something wasn't right.

I would bleed for several more minutes, personally - you'd hate to find out on the road that there is an airbubble.

 

[unDummy]

I own a Camry. Straight from my Toyota's FSM: Bleed air of the rear brake first. If front brake is bled first, rear brake air cannot be bled.

No ABS to worry about cycling or bleeding which is good.

Rebleed your brakes. Give it the ol' fashion Z-bleed rotation starting at the RR, LR, RF, LF.
Don't let the the master cylinder drop below half full to prevent air ingestion oops.

 

[Junior]

Yes, the correct bleeding proceedure is the start at the farthest from the master cylinder and work your way closer.

Also, did you loosen the adjuster wheel on the rear brake shoes? If you did, that will cause more pedal travel (softer feel). You will need to adjust it back to where it was.

 

[Steve S]

The wheel cyls and calipers seal by the pressure of the fluid ,using suction will not always give the best results .

 

[Cooper]

Quote:

---

I own a Camry. Straight from my Toyota's FSM: Bleed air of the rear brake first. If front brake is bled first, rear brake air cannot be bled.

No ABS to worry about cycling or bleeding which is good.

Rebleed your brakes. Give it the ol' fashion Z-bleed rotation starting at the RR, LR, RF, LF.
Don't let the the master cylinder drop below half full to prevent air ingestion oops.

---

Thanks for your input, this is why I should have just come here and asked first. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I should have just asked before I did the brakes. Do you know about how many complete pumps of the brake pedal are needed to clear the lines? Because the new fluid will look the same as the fluid that is in there.

 

[unDummy]

Use as much as needed. Grab a quart and divide it among the 4 bleeders and see if that solves the problem.

 

[Tosh]

One cannot arbitrarily give the brake bleeding order as a function of distance away from the MC or brand of car. It depends on how the system is designed, and not all are the same. Use the order specified by the manufacturer for that car. It is possible that by coincidence going farther to closer away is correct for some cars.

Anyhow, the proper order of bleeding only prevents cross-contamination of old and new fluid, not prevention of air bubbles, which come from the outside (MC or bleed nipples). Draw a little diagram of the relative positions of MC primary and secondary and individual brake lines and run a little thought experiment to prove this to yourself.

 

[Tosh]

To be clear, I should say the proper bleeding order does matter if the lines already have air in them, like for installing new lines or other problems with leaking connections.

 

[Big Jim]

Something to be aware of is that you will have a slightly softer pedal with new pads until they seat into the rotors. It may not be a fluid problem.

 

[Cooper]

Well, I bled my brakes on this car again. Did the Z method from rear to front. I didn't get any air out of any lines, and the brakes still feel the same. I am going to just attribute the softer brake pedal to the Valvoline fluid. It brakes just fine, just a little softer.

This post is done for me. Thanks for all the help.

Blame

 

[ThirdeYe]

I noticed that my pedal seems a bit soft after I just had my brakes bled and refilled as well, maybe that's just the way it is

I don't know what fluid the mechanic used. I gave him Prestone to use but he took it upon himself to use what he had in the shop already without asking me..