So What's A Bargain Car Now?

[Drew99GT]

I didn't even mention V-8...

The cars I mentioned in fact provide an EPA hgwy mpg of 31. 32 for the Monte Carlo. That's quite close to the 2.2L Ecotec.

Not everyone wants to scoot around in a pack of gum, and doing a 1500 mile highway trip with 4 people like we do yearly, with a car that has 105 hp and 1 cm of rear leg room (my bro is 6'5 and is pushin 300 lbs.) would be downright painful. Can you envision a Yaris sedan with an automatic trying to do 70 across KS with 4 suitcases and 900 lbs worth of person, with the A/C on? I'd bet dollars to donuts our Impala would get pretty close fuel mileage to a Yaris Sedan in that situation cause the Yaris would be floored, while the big V-6 has barely any throttle.

And just like you indicate how Yaris owners that hypermile them - people get the same increase in fuel mileage with bigger V-6 sedans - mid 20s in town and low to mid 30s highway.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I didn't even mention V-8...

The cars I mentioned in fact provide an EPA hgwy mpg of 31. 32 for the Monte Carlo. That's quite close to the 2.2L Ecotec.

Not everyone wants to scoot around in a pack of gum, and doing a 1500 mile highway trip with 4 people like we do yearly, with a car that has 105 hp and 1 cm of rear leg room (my bro is 6'5 and is pushin 300 lbs.) would be downright painful. Can you envision a Yaris sedan with an automatic trying to do 70 across KS with 4 suitcases and 900 lbs worth of person, with the A/C on? I'd bet dollars to donuts our Impala would get pretty close fuel mileage to a Yaris Sedan in that situation cause the Yaris would be floored, while the big V-6 has barely any throttle.

And just like you indicate how Yaris owners that hypermile them - people get the same increase in fuel mileage with bigger V-6 sedans - mid 20s in town and low to mid 30s highway.


For your annual roadtrip, you could rent a car bigger car ;-) Yes, the Yaris would suck MPG-wise if you loaded it as you say. As to hypermiling, I believe that one will get more results from a small car then a big car in regard to hypermiling.

My sister wants to keep their guzzling Chevy Tahoe so that the family of 4 can "take their annual trip to June Lake 300 miles north"...and for the other 51 weeks each year, she drives it all over town in stop and go traffic, sucking up big, big dollars in gas, many times more then it would cost them to rent a large vehicle for their annual trip. It's just this type of thinking that makes financial planners all over American to shreek in frustration. The problem with Americans is that they've yet to upgrade their perceiption of "good milage". All those V6 cars you mention suck in regard to gas milage. In today's prices for gas, 24, 26, 30 MPG is no longer considered "good milage" even if it was a few years ago.

 

[firemachine69]

lovcom:

You are absolutely correct, but the mentality is to 'own' said Tahoe, as 'renting' equates 'borrowing' to many typical N.A. minds, and that won't do, they want to be able to tow their boats at a whims noticed... Even though they have their weekend of fishing circled on the calendar weeks ahead of the actual event.

 

[sciphi]

I have a 1999 Buick LeSabre with the 3800 Series II, and low 30's highway occur fairly regularly. Around 20 around town, which will hopefully go up as I figure out what dose of 2-cycle oil to use in the gas. I also paid a song for it, so it's been a decent "bargain" car for me, especially considering how mine was driven to church every Sunday by a retiree, so the mileage is really low.

Those 96-99 Bonnevilles and LeSabres can be had for reasonably cheap, parts are readily available and not exorbitantly priced, and they often have years left in them if you find them with low miles.

 

[smokey1]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
older subcompact imprts drop like bricks the old Ford Fiestiva and Feista's, the older Hyundai and Kia's and the really old Toyota's like Tercels,Echo's,Carolla's,Starlets etc.....
we had the FESTIVA's ( MAZDA 121 ) and enjoyed them very much . Those 1.3 ltr. engines were very hard to kill . Seen an '88 suffer , fiances' friend and family abused the cr*p out of it . Think that car had about 5 oil changes in over 150,000 miles . I kid you not .

 

[smokey1]

we're currently getting an overall average of 43 m.p.g. for both the '08 sedan w/ the 4 speed auto and the 5 speed Liftback . The best for the sedan was a bit over 45 m.p.g. and 44.7 ( or so ) for the Liftback . This is without the SCANGUAGE II , have been considering one and use it for both cars . TAKE CARE

 

[MikeR]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: lovcom
...if you drive it with the help of a ScanGaugeII, you will get 47-48 MPG highway. ...


Not a snowball's chance in you-know-where of averaging 47-48 highway with a Yaris, unless MAYBE you're crawling along at 45-50 mph, and even then, I doubt it. New EPA on this car is 29 city, 35 highway.

{forgot I wasn't in the Hybrid thread...

} But the first part still applies. That said, for an ultra-low, up-front cost car, the Yaris is hard to beat, so long as you can live with its tiny size.


You're wrong!

The EPA for a 2007 Yaris is NOT the numbers you wrote of. The numbers you wrote are for the 2008 and NOT the 2007.

Read my post for the correct numbers: 34 city, and 39 highway for the auto-tranny....40 mpg highway for the manual 5-speed.

Go to gassavers.org or CleanMPG.com and you will see many Yaris owners getting near 50 mpg from their cars.

Do the research ;-)


Well heck, nobody buy a 2008 then! /sarcasm.

There's no difference between the 2007 and 2008 cars, just the EPA's testing methods. Note he said "new" EPA.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
I have a 1999 Buick LeSabre with the 3800 Series II, and low 30's highway occur fairly regularly. Around 20 around town, which will hopefully go up as I figure out what dose of 2-cycle oil to use in the gas. I also paid a song for it, so it's been a decent "bargain" car for me, especially considering how mine was driven to church every Sunday by a retiree, so the mileage is really low.

Those 96-99 Bonnevilles and LeSabres can be had for reasonably cheap, parts are readily available and not exorbitantly priced, and they often have years left in them if you find them with low miles.

Sciphi, my '03 Buick Park Avenue with that same engine does superbly for such a big car, around 21-22 in town and near 32 on the open road. I bought it for about what a new Yaris would cost. It's not paid for, but my note is low, so is my insurance, the previous owner took the big depreciation hit, and maintenance and repair have been much much lower than for my much older Mercedes over the last decade!

If the Buick got totalled tomorrow, sure, I'd look into a smaller and more efficient car. (Though I'd be tempted to go for another PA, or a LeSabre like yours, or a Regal.)

Gas costs have *always* figured into my calculations when I buy a car, and when I take a job or move. Always.

 

[firemachine69]

I was up in Sault Ste Marie (Ontario-Canada side) the other day... They actually still have an '08 Prius Hybrid sitting in the lot... I *hate* the hybrid mentality, but shucks, even I'd be tempted to pick it up if I hadn't purchased my Yaris a few months ago - due to a $5k rebate from the dealer!

 

[MrCritical]

Yaris with a 5K rebate?

We'll never see that in the States!

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
I was up in Sault Ste Marie (Ontario-Canada side) the other day... They actually still have an '08 Prius Hybrid sitting in the lot... I *hate* the hybrid mentality, but shucks, even I'd be tempted to pick it up if I hadn't purchased my Yaris a few months ago - due to a $5k rebate from the dealer!

How, exactly, do we define the "hybrid mentality"??? As far as I'm concerned, mine's just a good car that burns a very small amount of fuel for the size and distance traveled.

 

[JustinH]

Just rented a new yaris for a week in orlando.

Car was brand new with 300 miles on it.

First tank got 42mpg, second tank got 38mpg with a ton of idleing with the ac blasting in the orlando traffic.

I'd buy one.

Not great for long trips, but great on gas.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
I was up in Sault Ste Marie (Ontario-Canada side) the other day... They actually still have an '08 Prius Hybrid sitting in the lot... I *hate* the hybrid mentality, but shucks, even I'd be tempted to pick it up if I hadn't purchased my Yaris a few months ago - due to a $5k rebate from the dealer!

You probably saved money with the Yaris purchase over the Prius in regard to 5+ years ownership, cost of ownership and fuel.

I modeled this in an excel spreadsheet for my own situation and I found that I would have to drive 300,000 miles before the Prius started costing less to own then the Yaris. This is based upon $4/gal gas, back in 2007 when I did this calculations.

Often, the cheapest way to go is an all-gasser over a hybred. Most people don't do the math and knee-jerk the purchase of a Hybred, like my neighbor. He opted for the hybred Camry over the 4 banger gasser and after asking him how many miles he drives, and so on, I come to find that he would have to drive his Camry Hybred over 500,000 miles before he broke even over the gasser 4-banger....by the way, he went with the hybred over the gass "to save money"....imagine that!

 

[smokey1]

it's HYBRID . The PRIUS keeps it's book value better than a YARIS . That we know for a fact .

 

[speedyswede]

But the Prius is far from being a bargain.

 

[sciphi]

Don't forget insurance and replacement parts. That's where the domestic V6 and V8 cars have the edge. Lots of them out there means lots of statistics on accidents, and lots of replacement parts around. There's likely a reason why my LeSabre is so cheap to maintain and insure. Let's see, something about GM commanding 25% or more of the entire US car market for years, and producing over 25 MILLION 3800 series V6 engines. The insurance companies can likely predict to the dollar what they'll have to pay out for an older large domestic car in a given accident, since they likely have 10,000 identical accidents already on file for that car. I was stunned to find out how much lower insurance is for the LeSabre than my old Hyundai. Admit it, for every Yaris you see 5 Buicks.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: smokey1
it's HYBRID . The PRIUS keeps it's book value better than a YARIS . That we know for a fact .


But you forget that the Prius costs nearly DOUBLE the cost of the Yaris, AND the cost of ownership of the Prius over 300,000 or 5 years is significantly higher then that of the Yaris.

We bought two Yaris in 2007 for $13,500 out the door, and a 3rd Yaris in March 2008 for $12,800 out the door. You can't touch a 2008 Prius these days for under $25,000 out the door. The $12,000 difference in price (not to mention the much higher maintenence costs of the Prius) in gas is a heck of a lot of gas.

Also, since both cars would be driven through their expected life, resale value is irrelevent, and moot.

This is why I laugh my a$$ off when I hear people say that they traded in their gasser for a Camry Hybrid or Prius to "save $$"...what a load of [censored], although there are exceptions of course.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Don't forget insurance and replacement parts. That's where the domestic V6 and V8 cars have the edge. Lots of them out there means lots of statistics on accidents, and lots of replacement parts around. There's likely a reason why my LeSabre is so cheap to maintain and insure. Let's see, something about GM commanding 25% or more of the entire US car market for years, and producing over 25 MILLION 3800 series V6 engines. The insurance companies can likely predict to the dollar what they'll have to pay out for an older large domestic car in a given accident, since they likely have 10,000 identical accidents already on file for that car. I was stunned to find out how much lower insurance is for the LeSabre than my old Hyundai. Admit it, for every Yaris you see 5 Buicks.



You greatly exaggerate the difference in insurance costs between a Buick V6/V8 and a Yaris. The costs have much more to do with driver age, and driver accident history.

As to more buicks then Yari on the road, well, this metric is irrelevent, and only proves, that like the stock market, and other things in life, going with the crowd means to lose and not to win. If one is going to spend $ on an old Buick V6 or V8, better to spend the same and get a used Honda or Toyota, and save on gas, so doing so, one wins both ways: (1) better car (2) lower operational costs.

 

[cousincletus]

FWIW I have a 2004 Impala that got 34.7 mpg from Richmond, Va to Pittsburgh, PA. The weather was cool enough that I didn't need A/C, and I set my cruise control at the speed limit (no faster than 65 mph on the interstate and no more than 60 on the back roads). And, BTW, the 3.4 Impala gets better mileage than a comparable Accord, costs less, and is a better, more roomy car. I have had no problems with my Impala, although it will need brakes soon.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: cousincletus
FWIW I have a 2004 Impala that got 34.7 mpg from Richmond, Va to Pittsburgh, PA. The weather was cool enough that I didn't need A/C, and I set my cruise control at the speed limit (no faster than 65 mph on the interstate and no more than 60 on the back roads). And, BTW, the 3.4 Impala gets better mileage than a comparable Accord, costs less, and is a better, more roomy car. I have had no problems with my Impala, although it will need brakes soon.


Nope, the Accord is better because it is nearly the same size inside, better gas milage, more dependable too. Did I say, the Accord gets better gas milage? Check Chevy.com and HondaCars.com to confirm what I wrote. Also, the Accord has a bigger interior then the Impala (104.5). The Accord is 106.