so inspiring

[Bigdaddyeasy]

No, if they meant for you to know for certain what the actual beta ratio is they would state plainly.
FRAM stating it filters 99% at greater than 20, or as these Mann filters I have state, tightly woven fibers capture up to 96% of contaminants, is left uncertain.
Its misleading marketing.
Same with the nominal rating [censored]. They all want to portray that their better than they are. Maybe you should learn to call a snake a snake. FRAM and most the rest are marketers above anything else.

 

[dishdude]

I don't care about the filtering ratings, I doubt they mean much in the real world. I want quality construction!

IMO Wix wins because you can use any filter they make with confidence.

With Fram I'd only use the Ultra

Purolator, well we know the challenges they have with the tears

E-cores look like a third grade art project.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I don't care about the filtering ratings, I doubt they mean much in the real world. I want quality construction!

IMO Wix wins because you can use any filter they make with confidence.

With Fram I'd only use the Ultra

Purolator, well we know the challenges they have with the tears

E-cores look like a third grade art project.

+1. Very well said!

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I don't care about the filtering ratings, I doubt they mean much in the real world. I want quality construction!

IMO Wix wins because you can use any filter they make with confidence.

With Fram I'd only use the Ultra

Purolator, well we know the challenges they have with the tears

E-cores look like a third grade art project.

+2 their not gonna let us know their real beta ratios any how.

 

[Nate1979]

When Wix publishes a real beta ratio with documented Iso test standard I will trust them. Until then it is pure marketing. Sure they can make a filter with straight pleats but tell me what is their real beta ratio then I will consider them. Until then I will run the Fram Ultra which Wix can't touch in terms of performance.

 

[ZeeOSix]

WIX shows all their filters to now be 95% @ 20 microns - except for the low performing XP that is 50% @ 20 microns.

But WIX won't say what test spec their efficiency claims are based on. That shouldn't be 'secret' information IMO, unless there is some funny business going on.

WIX is a decent product, but WIX isn't a very transparent company.

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
When Wix publishes a real beta ratio with documented Iso test standard I will trust them. Until then it is pure marketing. Sure they can make a filter with straight pleats but tell me what is their real beta ratio then I will consider them. Until then I will run the Fram Ultra which Wix can't touch in terms of performance.


You do that then.
Its funny you go by the word of a FRAM sales man. You believe all he claims although FRAM doesn't truly list their beta ratio.
In the flick o posted wix claimed they test their filters according to the ISO tests. Standards but you don't take their word for it. You and your biddy zio mist enjoy the perks your given to advertise for FRAM. I'd rather use a wix and pay for it as I'm not for sale.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ LoL ... yeah, which ISO test? If they say it in the video, then why is it such a big secret when asked directly on the phone?

And BTW, Fram does give efficiency info, people just need to know how to understand it (which is quite easy to do). Maybe WIX is paying you since you seem to be a big WIX "promoter". See how that works?

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ LoL ... yeah, which ISO test? If they say it in the video, then why is it such a big secret when asked directly on the phone?

And BTW, Fram does give efficiency info, people just need to know how to understand it (which is quite easy to do). Maybe WIX is paying you since you seem to be a big WIX "promoter". See how that works?

It always comes back to your lack of discernment regarding the language FRAM uses with their claim at greater than 20. Your never gonna get it. Ofcourse with all the freebies you don't want to.

 

[ZeeOSix]

What's so hard about understanding "99% filtration efficiency for particles >20 microns"?

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Exactly, that's where your just blatantly ignoring the fact. It means greater than 20 not all greater than 20. Could be 99 @ 30 Therefore FRAM is misleading people like you that cannot muster the sense to get that.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Exactly, that's where your just blatantly ignoring the fact. It means greater than 20 not all greater than 20. Could be 99 @ 30 Therefore FRAM is misleading people like you that cannot muster the sense to get that.


Not a good enough explanation - what you say can't make sense if they say all particles greater than 20 microns. So you really think that 21 microns isn't larger than 20 microns?

As I and others have explained, it means for all particles greater than 20 microns (and 20.001 microns is >20), it filters out 99 out of 100 of all those particles on the greater side of 20 microns. Just like the graph I linked to trying to show the non-understanding a pictorial representation. For those who get it, it's essentially the same as saying "99% @ 20 microns", which then inherently means all particles also greater than 20 microns.

Please give a detailed explanation on what you think Fram means, since you are so sure they are trying to fool people.

 

[Triton_330]

For all of whom say that Wix doesn't say which ISO tests they use, listen up.

Currently, Oreilly house-brand Microgard filters are made by Wix, and are essentially equivalent to the Napa Silver. For the record, most Wix (Napa Gold) filters use the red silicon ADBV, whereas most Microgard (Napa Silver) filters use nitrile.

Looking at Oreilly's website, let's take a look at a widely used filter - the Motorcaft FL1A equivalent Wix 51515:

Now the Microgard MGL51515:

We know that Wix specifies 95% @ 20 microns, but doesn't say which ISO test. However, the Microgard specifies 95% @ 29 microns, and does say that it uses the ISO-4548-12.

If you put two and two together, would it not make sense to presume that the same ISO test used for the Microgard filters to find 29u @ 95% is the same ISO test used for the Wix filters to find 20u @ 95%?

I think it makes perfect sense, IMO.

And of course to re-clarify, the Microgard is 29u (and the Wix is 20u) because the Napa Silver uses a different media than the Napa Gold.

~ Triton

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

We know that Wix specifies 95% @ 20 microns, but doesn't say which ISO test. However, the Microgard specifies 95% @ 29 microns, and does say that it uses the ISO-4548-12.

If you put two and two together, would it not make sense to presume that the same ISO test used for the Microgard filters to find 29u @ 95% is the same ISO test used for the Wix filters to find 20u @ 95%?

I think it makes perfect sense, IMO.


One would "[censored]-u-me" so, but then why when you call WIX customer service tech dept (aka Area 51) it's a big "secret" that can't be divulged?

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
One would "[censored]-u-me" so, but then why when you call WIX customer service tech dept (aka Area 51) it's a big "secret" that can't be divulged?

No.

Assumptions are without any evidence or basis to support it.
Presumptions use evidence, or some basis of probability to support it.

An assumption is a supposition, a baseless guess; a presumption is a supported estimation.

That is why I said:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
If you put two and two together, would it not make sense to presume that the same ISO test used for the Microgard filters to find 29u @ 95% is the same ISO test used for the Wix filters to find 20u @ 95%?


Anywho, let me break this down...

I have previously asked a NAPA rep in a live chat on their website about the Wix, Microgard, and Napa filters, and their equivalencies. He/She told me that the Microgard Filters are the same exact thing (internally) as the Napa Silver filters, and the Wix filters are the same as Napa Gold filters.

Since Oreilly lists the ISO-4548-12 test on the Microgard filters, we know for certain that the Napa Silver filters are 29u @ 95% from the ISO-4548-12 test.

If that test is used on the Silver lineup, then it would be a well-founded presumption to think that the Wix/Napa Gold filters use the same ISO-4548-12 test to find the 20u @ 95% rating.

~ Triton

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
One would "[censored]-u-me" so, but then why when you call WIX customer service tech dept (aka Area 51) it's a big "secret" that can't be divulged?

No.

Assumptions are without any evidence or basis to support it.
Presumptions use evidence, or some basis of probability to support it.

An assumption is a supposition, a baseless guess; a presumption is a supported estimation.

That is why I said:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
If you put two and two together, would it not make sense to presume that the same ISO test used for the Microgard filters to find 29u @ 95% is the same ISO test used for the Wix filters to find 20u @ 95%?


Anywho, let me break this down...

I have previously asked a NAPA rep in a live chat on their website about the Wix, Microgard, and Napa filters, and their equivalencies. He/She told me that the Microgard Filters are the same exact thing (internally) as the Napa Silver filters, and the Wix filters are the same as Napa Gold filters.

Since Oreilly lists the ISO-4548-12 test on the Microgard filters, we know for certain that the Napa Silver filters are 29u @ 95% from the ISO-4548-12 test.

If that test is used on the Silver lineup, then it would be a well-founded presumption to think that the Wix/Napa Gold filters use the same ISO-4548-12 test to find the 20u @ 95% rating.

~ Triton


I would suggest you inform Wix about this. They will be surprised to learn what Iso test they actually use

.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I would suggest you inform Wix about this. They will be surprised to learn what Iso test they actually use

.


Exactly ...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Since Oreilly lists the ISO-4548-12 test on the Microgard filters, we know for certain that the Napa Silver filters are 29u @ 95% from the ISO-4548-12 test.

If that test is used on the Silver lineup, then it would be a well-founded presumption to think that the Wix/Napa Gold filters use the same ISO-4548-12 test to find the 20u @ 95% rating.

~ Triton


And just how do you know what O'Reilly says is 100% fact? Where did they get that information? Is that an assume or a presume on your part?

Fact is, if WIX Tech Dept will not give the info out on the phone, then why would they give it out to O'Reilly. Heck, for all we know O'Reilly is just falsely parroting the latest ISO spec because others do. People think Fram lies ... so why can't anyone else then.

Also, if WIX won't even say on the phone what test spec they use, that means they could use any test, even one of their own made up tests, and play all kinds of games with the test procedure to give good numbers. They can't have anyone hold them up to a test spec if they never divulge a test spec.

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Since Oreilly lists the ISO-4548-12 test on the Microgard filters, we know for certain that the Napa Silver filters are 29u @ 95% from the ISO-4548-12 test.

If that test is used on the Silver lineup, then it would be a well-founded presumption to think that the Wix/Napa Gold filters use the same ISO-4548-12 test to find the 20u @ 95% rating.

~ Triton


And just how do you know what O'Reilly says is 100% fact? Where did they get that information? Is that an assume or a presume on your part?

Fact is, if WIX Tech Dept will not give the info out on the phone, then why would they give it out to O'Reilly. Heck, for all we know O'Reilly is just falsely parroting the latest ISO spec because others do. People think Fram lies ... so why can't anyone else then.

Also, if WIX won't even say on the phone what test spec they use, that means they could use any test, even one of their own made up tests, and play all kinds of games with the test procedure to give good numbers. They can't have anyone hold them up to a test spec if they never divulge a test spec.

I guess we just need to get motorking to say it and that will somehow make it factual. He sure has convinced you that greater than means all particals greater than 20 and not at somewhere greater than 20. If that were the case they would state @20.
Yes 21is greater than 20 but 99% at greater than 20 doesn't necessarily mean 99% at 21. Just 99% of particles greater than 20. Boulders included.

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

By the way motorking never answered a single one of my questions. That's disappointing