So, Fram filters...why the bad rap?

Status
Not open for further replies.
^^^ The link referenced in a few of the previous posts in this thread do no show a center tube protruding above the end caps.
Photos we are talking about in this discussion

The one I just cut open for a buddy at work didn't have any center tube protrusion above the end caps, and there was obvious signs of sealing impressions in the end caps around the center tube hole.

Of course, IF the filter was manufactured for some reason with a center tube too short or too long, then I agree there could be sealing issues at the end caps. I really don't recall any photos ever being posted that specifically showed a center tube length issue.
 
Thanks for clarifying Overkill, I finally have a better understanding of what some people are worried about.

With that said, I'm not worried about this one bit. To me this is a lot like the purolator tear discussion. Some people felt that was a big deal, a miniscule amount of oil passing through the tear not getting filtered. I was on the side that said it's not a big deal, oil isn't as dirty as people think and since most of the oil is getting filtered, that unfiltered oil will go through the media on another pass through the filter.

This is all assuming that the right circumstances allow this to happened, as Overkill mentioned in #1 and #2.

I think it all depends on the filter. I think that in the pictures I posted earlier, and the additional pictures posted below, the subaru filter media is so short and rigid that this will likely never be a problem with that particular filter.

 
^^^ Nothing wrong with the length of that metal center tube.

If someone actually has photos of a center tube that is grossly too short or too long, post them up. I don't recall ever seeing a problem with center tube lengths on any of the photos posted here over the last few years.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But as mentioned earlier, the only seal that matters is between the end cap material and the ADBV and bypass valve assy. The end caps don't even really have to cover the center tube to seal around the hole in the end caps. If media itself was strong enough to take all the flow force and the compression from the spring in the dome end of the filter, you wouldn't even need a center tube.


I will try to clarify what I believe is being said:

If the centre tube protrudes past the media end caps, which form the seal, the ADBV will be sealing against the metal of the tube, NOT the media of the end-cap. Obviously the centre tube lacks filtering ability, so if this is the case, there will be unfiltered oil passing through the gap between the ADBV and the top of the filter, which it is supposed to be sealing against.

Now of course if the centre tube was not present and the media had enough rigidity to not require it, this would not be an issue, but as you already noted, this isn't the case.

I can see two sources of this "issue":

1. The media is short in the first place/centre tube too long
2. The media compresses/distorts/twists, making it shorter, exposing a bit of the centre tube

I've seen #2 in person with the TG that came off my sister's Explorer. End caps were severely deformed and the media was extremely twisted/wavy. There was no way the ADBV was sealing against the end cap on that filter.


This may be a stupid thought but were you able to see the deformed end caps before cutting? Is it possible that once the pressure is relieved by cutting open the end caps deform? In other words they are not deformed inside the filter, only when allowed to expand.


No, the ADBV is in the way, you can't see it.

That said, I'm talking serious waves in both end caps, perhaps due to moisture? I believe that's what has been posited causes the deformed media, so to extend that to applying to the fibre end caps isn't much of a stretch. It was used on a winter OCI, which is where we see most of the distorted media.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ The link referenced in a few of the previous posts in this thread do no show a center tube protruding above the end caps.
Photos we are talking about in this discussion

The one I just cut open for a buddy at work didn't have any center tube protrusion above the end caps, and there was obvious signs of sealing impressions in the end caps around the center tube hole.

Of course, IF the filter was manufactured for some reason with a center tube too short or too long, then I agree there could be sealing issues at the end caps. I really don't recall any photos ever being posted that specifically showed a center tube length issue.


I think the 2nd pic is the one in question. On the side where the media was hit with the cutter, you can see a bit of the centre tube, given the angle, if it was below the end cap, you wouldn't. That's what I believe was being referenced. I could be wrong however
smile.gif
You'll note that when taken at the same angle from the other side (picture 3), there is not the same thing visible.
 
Just found this pic on Google that looks similar to what the ToughGuard that was on the Explorer looked like:

IMG_0656.JPG


They are from this page:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3072781

And were posted by BlueOvalFitter.

ZeeOSix, you commented in that thread, LOL.


And another thread:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1740781&page=all

With this picture:

collapsiblefram.jpg



And then there is this thread:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2935582

With this pic that shows the phenomena I was speaking about with the tube coming up above the media cap:

WehQjPoh.jpg
 
^^^ Yes, I did make comments in that thread, but mostly about other things like the ADBV operation.

I'm not denying that if the end caps get super warped due to lots of condensation and/or coolant leakage into the oil that there couldn't be ramifications on the sealing at the end caps.

But if you look at those photos closely, you can clearly see where the end cap sealing was going on. Just because the center tube rose up some above the end cap doesn't automatically mean it was leaking past the sealing area. It could have, but IMO the chances are that it was still sealing there better than a torn up Purolator.
grin.gif
 
Well, I don't think you need to look too closely at #2, it was obviously not sealing given the huge gap and you can see the obvious break in sealing pattern at that point. #3 appears to have the same issue. But it is hard to tell, as there is only a small protrusion. The pics from the other thread are too dark to know.

And yes, I'm not denying/making excuses for the Purolator issue, I'm just trying to clarify the issue that was being pointed out earlier that seemed to be getting misconstrued or miscommunicated. I feel my explanation/illustration should get the point across now to others who perhaps misunderstood.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Well, I don't think you need to look too closely at #2, it was obviously not sealing given the huge gap and you can see the obvious break in sealing pattern at that point.


Which photo #2 are you referring to? If it's #2 in this link, I don't know how you can make out anything since it's dark, out of focus and shadows from the flash.

Photo #2 here ... or someplace else?
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Well, I don't think you need to look too closely at #2, it was obviously not sealing given the huge gap and you can see the obvious break in sealing pattern at that point.


Which photo #2 are you referring to? If it's #2 in this link, I don't know how you can make out anything since it's dark, out of focus and shadows from the flash.

Photo #2 here ... or someplace else?


I meant the ones I posted above in this thread, my #2.
 
Go ya ... thanks. Yes, as warped as those filters are, I'd say there was some major moisture in the oil.

The PH30 I cut open two days ago for my work buddy has super straight pleats and end caps, and the center tube was perfect. I was pretty impressed on how good it looked, and it was surprisingly clean. It came off a '87 Camaro with ~240,000 miles on it. Filter was on for ~3500 miles.
 
Look at this! More bad Fram photos! Go away trolls! There is no room for people that dislike the OCOD on this thread!
27.gif


Oh, and Johnny Football is going to Dallas next year. You will be in good shape then. I wish the Texans could get a quarterback...and an offensive line...and a kicker...and a...well you get the idea
smirk.gif
 
He's out for the season. Your safe. I really dont see them putting him back in unless we make it to the playoffs. You dont risk the overall health of your #1 draft pick unless it is absolutely necessary. But then again, Im not the coach, and I dont he will be at the end of the season, unless we get a miracle.
21.gif
 
I know this may be off topic, but we may have just single handedly stopped this thread from being blocked. I saw a lot of personal attacks coming. I started having visions of the MMO thread I was a part of a while back. Didn't end well...
23.gif
Tensions run high around Fram and MMO alike...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

K
  • Locked
Was Fram ever really that bad?
3 4 5
Replies
95
Views
44K
fdcg27
R
  • Locked
why is fram really so bad?
2 3
Replies
58
Views
27K
KCJeep
U
  • Locked
*Fram* making changes?
Replies
18
Views
6K
Drew99GT
A
  • Locked
Why are Fram Oil filters so bad?
Replies
19
Views
13K
AstroVic
W
  • Locked
Fram Tough Guard
2
Replies
30
Views
53K
ZeeOSix
Back
Top Bottom