why is fram really so bad?
- Thread starter ram_man
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Some people have experienced failures and defects,just like any other manufactured product.
When a manufacturer produces as many filters as fram does there are bound to be issues however if we really looked at their failure rate I doubt that frams failure rate is any higher than any other manufacturer.
That being said they cost more than they are worth. If they were cheaper I'd buy them,except the ultra. They are likely the most cost effective premium filter available.
When a manufacturer produces as many filters as fram does there are bound to be issues however if we really looked at their failure rate I doubt that frams failure rate is any higher than any other manufacturer.
That being said they cost more than they are worth. If they were cheaper I'd buy them,except the ultra. They are likely the most cost effective premium filter available.
IMO Fram gets a bad rep for being a bit more expensive and also no metal end caps.
Next thing you know: these info perpetuates the internet and the "bad rep" goes along...
Still, there are 100s if not 100s of thousands of avg joes out there using Fram orange can on a daily basis...and no ka-boom (engine failures) that manage to catch public's notice (media)
Q.
Next thing you know: these info perpetuates the internet and the "bad rep" goes along...
Still, there are 100s if not 100s of thousands of avg joes out there using Fram orange can on a daily basis...and no ka-boom (engine failures) that manage to catch public's notice (media)
Q.
It isn't that FRAM oil filters are bad, it's that they are overpriced for what you get. There are better-made filters out there for less money.
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Why are frams noted as being so bad?...So why is it so bad?
Because they don't meet the factory specs.
They don't match the factory blue color and ACDELCO label as used originally on my cars.
____________
1999 OLD GLS
1987 Toronado
Why are frams noted as being so bad?...So why is it so bad?
Because they don't meet the factory specs.
____________
1999 OLD GLS
1987 Toronado
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Why are frams noted as being so bad?...So why is it so bad?
Because they don't meet the factory specs.
They don't match the factory blue color and ACDELCO label as used originally on my cars.
____________
1999 OLD GLS
1987 Toronado
Love the source of the smilie image
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Why are frams noted as being so bad?...So why is it so bad?
Because they don't meet the factory specs.
____________
1999 OLD GLS
1987 Toronado
Love the source of the smilie image
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Originally Posted By: carwreck
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Why are frams noted as being so bad?...So why is it so bad?
Because they don't meet the factory specs.
They don't match the factory blue color and ACDELCO label as used originally on my cars.
____________
1999 OLD GLS
1987 Toronado
Is your Toronado the Trofeo model? I had an 87 Trofeo FE-3. I LOVED that car!!
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Why are frams noted as being so bad?...So why is it so bad?
Because they don't meet the factory specs.
____________
1999 OLD GLS
1987 Toronado
Is your Toronado the Trofeo model? I had an 87 Trofeo FE-3. I LOVED that car!!
I have changed filters om cars where fram where fitted on the car before change many times. And i have never seen any problems with them. On the other hand i have never cut one open.
Myself i always use genuine filters. Here the price is often the same.
Myself i always use genuine filters. Here the price is often the same.
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i cut open a fram that was on my S2000 when i bought it. i was surprised. it wasn't nearly as bad as the haters make it out to be. the end caps were sturdy and the media in good shape.
there are much better filters for the price. i wouldn't be afraid to run a fram 3-5k if its all i could get.
the previous owner of my S ran a fram 6607 at every oci for the 56k miles he owned the car. at 73k now it runs perfect, and in the last 3k hasn't burned a drop. my guess is the fram was never and issue on the S2k which specs its own unique honda filter application. I was scared to keep running the fram because of internet stories so i took it off and put a factory honda filter on it. when i cut open the fram and saw how good it still looked i regretted wasting it and the previous owners M1 that only had 4k miles on it...
in short frams are fine, just not economical.
there are much better filters for the price. i wouldn't be afraid to run a fram 3-5k if its all i could get.
the previous owner of my S ran a fram 6607 at every oci for the 56k miles he owned the car. at 73k now it runs perfect, and in the last 3k hasn't burned a drop. my guess is the fram was never and issue on the S2k which specs its own unique honda filter application. I was scared to keep running the fram because of internet stories so i took it off and put a factory honda filter on it. when i cut open the fram and saw how good it still looked i regretted wasting it and the previous owners M1 that only had 4k miles on it...
in short frams are fine, just not economical.
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
It isn't that FRAM oil filters are bad, it's that they are overpriced for what you get. There are better-made filters out there for less money.
+1
It isn't that FRAM oil filters are bad, it's that they are overpriced for what you get. There are better-made filters out there for less money.
+1
I don't think they're bad, they just weren't made for,intended for, or built to handle anymore than your average minivan mile pampering American would throw at it. I personally go with amsoil filters to complement the amsoil 0-30, I enjoy hearing my engine scream everyday so I use the best stuff I can possibly get to back up the driving condition. If you don't do any hard runs and change it every 3k, then a farm provides adequate filtration. No reason for you to buy more than you need, but it certainly won't hurt to at least use the step up glass/cellulose media Fram.
here people would probertly go 30.000 or 40.000 km. And still dont experience any faults on a fram. I promise one thing, a regular fram won't filter down to no 14 microns like an amsoil filter does, if it did it would come at the cost of restriction. Much like a Mobil 1 filter. I like to do about 12,000 on my oil (UOA says my tbn is at 0.1 after 12k). Going that long I'd prefer a filter that's guaranteed for 15k(amsoil). Before anyone says I should change it before tbn gets that low, I do 12k in about 3-4 months so the acids just don't have anytime to work before it's changed.
I agree with the statements made about the fram filters.
There are better filters (media and construction) for the same or even less money.
I used to run fram until they put the black grip stuff on that flaked off and got annoying. I never experienced a bad filter from them, but have heard and seen results of running the OCOD. Usually valve train noise, which was cured with changing just the filter to another brand.
I have carpal tunnel'd hands & wrists. My bad hands can put a dent in a fram OCOD can. I didn't think anything of it until I got a Purolator one time and I wasn't able to dent it. The purolator can seemed better constructed and weighed more, and to me it was a better quality filter because of it.
later on when I began to cut the filters open, the fram guts discusted me. cheaply built media, not many pleats, thin metal can, none of it really sat to well.
I use a strap wrench, the bar with the seatbelt material to loosen filters. I literally crushed the fram filter can with that strap wrench. the wix & purolator, I barely dent them.
I've never been able to put a dent in a K&N though!
So can construction would be a moot point, but IMHO, it's all about quality. I don't want to be the one person who gets a bad fram filter and have to deal with whatever consequences that will forthcome.
I don't care what a fram rep or engineer will tell me.
I don't care what the mass public thinks or buys. shops don't use fram, they use the cheapo Defense (which IMHO are better built than the fram, even though it's the same filter).
rarely an independant shop would use a name brand filter, it's all about profit, and they use whitebox whenever possible).
I shouldn't have to pay double for the extended guard when I can get the equivalent for half. AND in the back of my mind.. whatif fram shortcutted something in THIS filter that I have?
I won't know till I cut it open and I can't until I use it!
Now.. the canister cartridge filters.. I'd have no problem using a fram. However, I can still get another filter for the same price, and I'd be staying loyal to Wix or Purolator.
There are better filters (media and construction) for the same or even less money.
I used to run fram until they put the black grip stuff on that flaked off and got annoying. I never experienced a bad filter from them, but have heard and seen results of running the OCOD. Usually valve train noise, which was cured with changing just the filter to another brand.
I have carpal tunnel'd hands & wrists. My bad hands can put a dent in a fram OCOD can. I didn't think anything of it until I got a Purolator one time and I wasn't able to dent it. The purolator can seemed better constructed and weighed more, and to me it was a better quality filter because of it.
later on when I began to cut the filters open, the fram guts discusted me. cheaply built media, not many pleats, thin metal can, none of it really sat to well.
I use a strap wrench, the bar with the seatbelt material to loosen filters. I literally crushed the fram filter can with that strap wrench. the wix & purolator, I barely dent them.
I've never been able to put a dent in a K&N though!
So can construction would be a moot point, but IMHO, it's all about quality. I don't want to be the one person who gets a bad fram filter and have to deal with whatever consequences that will forthcome.
I don't care what a fram rep or engineer will tell me.
I don't care what the mass public thinks or buys. shops don't use fram, they use the cheapo Defense (which IMHO are better built than the fram, even though it's the same filter).
rarely an independant shop would use a name brand filter, it's all about profit, and they use whitebox whenever possible).
I shouldn't have to pay double for the extended guard when I can get the equivalent for half. AND in the back of my mind.. whatif fram shortcutted something in THIS filter that I have?
I won't know till I cut it open and I can't until I use it!
Now.. the canister cartridge filters.. I'd have no problem using a fram. However, I can still get another filter for the same price, and I'd be staying loyal to Wix or Purolator.
Originally Posted By: ChemicallyChargd
I promise one thing, a regular fram won't filter down to no 14 microns like an amsoil filter does, if it did it would come at the cost of restriction.
At what percent efficiency are you talking about at 14 microns? Without a beta or % tied to the microns size, the statement means nothing.
The flow restriction is a direct function of the media design and media filtering area (keeping oil flow and viscosity fixed). Full synthetic filters flow very well and typically filter down to around 95~99% @ 20 microns depending on the brand.
I promise one thing, a regular fram won't filter down to no 14 microns like an amsoil filter does, if it did it would come at the cost of restriction.
At what percent efficiency are you talking about at 14 microns? Without a beta or % tied to the microns size, the statement means nothing.
The flow restriction is a direct function of the media design and media filtering area (keeping oil flow and viscosity fixed). Full synthetic filters flow very well and typically filter down to around 95~99% @ 20 microns depending on the brand.
Amsoil states they're filters are ~97% efficient at 14 microns, yes I realize I should've put a claimed percentage in there, your right. its supposed to hold that filtration for 15,000mi. I think the OP was asking why the lowest line of Frams are bad as this is usually what is thought of when anyone mentions farm filters.
-srv
-srv
Given that Fram only uses the cardboard end caps on their OCOD filter, one has to wonder. I have yet to see any of the filters that I cut apart have a cardboard endcap.
But they have great marketing.
The net is while your engine will not fall out with a Fram filter there are better filters for the same or not much more.
But they have great marketing.
The net is while your engine will not fall out with a Fram filter there are better filters for the same or not much more.
Card board end caps!
Look at the OEM BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, and most if not all other drop in filters. They all have fiber end caps. "Card Board End caps",Red Herring if there ever was one. Also, a few highly regarded OEM spin on filters have fiber end caps.
Originally Posted By: ChemicallyChargd
Amsoil states they're filters are ~97% efficient at 14 microns, yes I realize I should've put a claimed percentage in there, your right. its supposed to hold that filtration for 15,000mi. I think the OP was asking why the lowest line of Frams are bad as this is usually what is thought of when anyone mentions farm filters.
-srv
The 'new' version of the FRAM Ultra is essentially rated at 99% @ 20 microns. That may equate close to ~97% @ 14 microns. And the Ultra is rated for up to a 15K OCI. I'd say they are filters on the same tier.
Amsoil states they're filters are ~97% efficient at 14 microns, yes I realize I should've put a claimed percentage in there, your right. its supposed to hold that filtration for 15,000mi. I think the OP was asking why the lowest line of Frams are bad as this is usually what is thought of when anyone mentions farm filters.
-srv
The 'new' version of the FRAM Ultra is essentially rated at 99% @ 20 microns. That may equate close to ~97% @ 14 microns. And the Ultra is rated for up to a 15K OCI. I'd say they are filters on the same tier.
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