So, Fram filters...why the bad rap?

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979

Can you describe better what you are seeing? When I look at the second pic I do not see collapsing media??


Look at the center tube at 6:00. You see a shiny line. that is where the end cap has dropped below the top of the center tube. The end cap is not acting as the gasket between the center tube and corresponding end piece. It will be bypassing unfiltered oil in that area if that is the bypass end, and likely bypassing if the ADBV end.

Ed

 

[KCJeep]

Both the ADBV and bypass assembly overlap the endcap by more than an eighth of an inch all the way around, creating a seal IMO. If they were bypassing oil I don't see how Fram could get such high efficiency ratings for it's filters. JMO.

 

[abycat]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Your second picture down shows why I will not use a fiber end cap Fram. At the 4:30 position you can see that the center tube is misaligned. This compromises the seal at that point. I've seen pictures and had one personally where the pleats had buckled and the end caps pulled down enough to show a definite leak at the bypass end. Some off center tubes don't seem to cause a problem and the marks from the ADBV or bypass piece show the seal may have been OK, some show the seal clearly compromised....

Excellent points. And this why when I see post use orange can or TG pics, the view(s) I want to see most is end caps from dome and adbv side with leaf spring/bypass and adbv removed, like the second pic. Many times those views are not shown.

Same as folks now want to see the Puro's at the seam pleat area.

FU in a different class with different construction.


Here's another example from a recently posted TG. Again, the 2nd picture shows exactly what I was talking about, with the media collapsing below the center tube. The design of the filter is that the end cap cover the center tube and serve as the gasket for the bypass/spring assembly and the ADBV.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3470963/Fram_TG3506_Cut_Open#Post3470963

Lots of "looks good", "great filter" comments in that thread. If you bought a head gasket and 20% was missing, would you think "great gasket"?

Ed


bro you are wrong. Read the part where the op said he hit it with a hacksaw. I'm sick of framhaters hating fram and don't really have a leg to stand on in their argument. fram is a great filter and I'm going to use their benefits and buy them and feel good about it. loyal fram user. for actual reasons.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: abycat

bro you are wrong. Read the part where the op said he hit it with a hacksaw. I'm sick of framhaters hating fram and don't really have a leg to stand on in their argument. fram is a great filter and I'm going to use their benefits and buy them and feel good about it. loyal fram user. for actual reasons.


He's not talking about the scuff on the end-cap, rather the fact that part of the centre tube is above the end-cap, which he is postulating could be a source of leakage. Instead of calling him "bro" and labelling him a "FRAM hater" (he hasn't been in here ripping on them, just making a few observations of things that caught his attention.... nothing like the true "FRAM haters" that post on here with baseless assertions about cardboard and the like) perhaps further examine what he's talking about, mull it over in your own head and figure out why his theory might be wrong. That's the appropriate manner of approaching somebody who seems to be trying to have a civil discussion here.

Food for thought.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Koolaid drinkers never get it, they just parrot the mantra.


Not a Fram user - I use MC's. But have questions.

Quote:
- A leaf spring instead of a coil spring


Why is that bad? Leaf springs can be just as tough or tougher than coil springs. It's why trucks still use them.

Quote:
- Fiber end caps


Why is using end cap material the same as the filter material a bad thing?

So why are these bad? And no, "it isn't what I want to see" is not a valid answer. Solid engineering responses or data only.

 

[dlundblad]

The Fram haters more than likely have little to no experience with their products anyways. Let them think what they want.. More for me.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The Fram haters more than likely have little to no experience with their products anyways. Let them think what they want.. More for me.

Be careful who you stereotype. I used Fram OCOD filters for years up until a couple years ago when I switched to Purolators and Royal Purples, and I will still use the higher end frams, but lowered end garbage filters, all yours bud.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The Fram haters more than likely have little to no experience with their products anyways. Let them think what they want.. More for me.

Be careful who you stereotype. I used Fram OCOD filters for years up until a couple years ago when I switched to Purolators and Royal Purples, and I will still use the higher end frams, but lowered end garbage filters, all yours bud.


What made you switch anyways? Does Purolator give you the warm fuzzies?

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Koolaid drinkers never get it, they just parrot the mantra.


Not a Fram user - I use MC's. But have questions.

Quote:
- A leaf spring instead of a coil spring


Why is that bad? Leaf springs can be just as tough or tougher than coil springs. It's why trucks still use them.

Quote:
- Fiber end caps


Why is using end cap material the same as the filter material a bad thing?

So why are these bad? And no, "it isn't what I want to see" is not a valid answer. Solid engineering responses or data only.



I'll pass on your assignment.

If a 20 year study was laid in front of you with testing and footnotes, it wouldn't make any difference in your "beliefs".

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6

I'll pass on your assignment.

If a 20 year study was laid in front of you with testing and footnotes, it wouldn't make any difference in your "beliefs".


So you have nothing. That's what I figured. Ok, thanks.

Like I said, I have no dog in this fight as I use Motorcrafts in my Fords.

But there are many things that "seem like a bad idea" and that work out perfectly fine. Conversely there are many things that "seem like a great idea" that work out poorly.

 

[sxg6]

There is no unfiltered oil coming through the gap between the end cap and the center tube, the gap between the center tube and end cap is harmless.

I have a dented subaru oil filter lying around and I decided to cut it open to illustrate this point.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

I'll pass on your assignment.

If a 20 year study was laid in front of you with testing and footnotes, it wouldn't make any difference in your "beliefs".


I use Motorcrafts in my Fords.

But there are many things that "seem like a bad idea" and that work out perfectly fine. Conversely there are many things that "seem like a great idea" that work out poorly.


I can tell you know a lot about bad ideas with that fleet of Fords.

You Ford guys would use a pile of dog [censored] for a filter if it came in a Motorcraft box.

By the way, it's Chevy Truck month.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6


I can tell you know a lot about bad ideas with that fleet of Fords.

You Ford guys would use a pile of dog [censored] for a filter if it came in a Motorcraft box.


So I guess when called out you must attack. The emperor has no clothes I guess. It's OK, I have thick skin so fire away. Fords have served us well for the most part. As they do millions of people in the world. So you need to try harder!

The Motorcrafts have served us well. As did the Nissan OEM when I drove a G35. And before that, a diet of OCOD's worked fine in our vehicles.

For something as simple as an oil filter it doesn't need to be overbuilt but built to last the factory OCI and trap the particle size the OEM specifies. I'd not care how it's built as long as it meets those parameters.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

I'll pass on your assignment.

If a 20 year study was laid in front of you with testing and footnotes, it wouldn't make any difference in your "beliefs".


I use Motorcrafts in my Fords.

But there are many things that "seem like a bad idea" and that work out perfectly fine. Conversely there are many things that "seem like a great idea" that work out poorly.


I can tell you know a lot about bad ideas with that fleet of Fords.

You Ford guys would use a pile of dog [censored] for a filter if it came in a Motorcraft box.

By the way, it's Chevy Truck month.




Ford bashing now? Lol.

You keep rolling along in your guberment funded truck buddy.

 

[SilverC6]

I responded to your dismissive tone and the impossible level of "proof" you demanded.

So I guess you have your engineering studies with reams of data generated for your Motorcraft filters.

Maybe you could share them with us.

And no, they "have served us well" is not a valid answer.

Or maybe you should just reboot and move on.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
I responded to your dismissive tone and the impossible level of "proof" you demanded.


Really? You listed reasons why Frams were/are poorly constructed. Why does that make them poorly constructed? Surely you have proof to back up your claims. Unless they are merely your OPINIONS? Sounds like you got called on your opinion and didn't like that...

Quote:
So I guess you have your engineering studies with reams of data generated for your Motorcraft filters.


Nope. But I trust that since they are built to Ford's specs and Ford made the engine that they know what they are doing. They seem to be a well made filter and no warranty issues from Ford using them (albeit all but 1 of are vehicles are out of warranty).

Then again, I'm not parroting [censored] that Motorcrafts are the best filters out there. I don't think they are. But they are cheap enough and work well enough for the Fords I drive. I'd have no issues if a Motorcraft was built like a Fram of any variety. Matter of fact, I've got Fram Ultra set to go into the F150 for it's next change in October. I want to see what the hype is about.

Same when I drove an Infiniti. I used a Nissan OEM filter. Why? For the same reason.

Quote:
And no, they "have served us well" is not a valid answer.


Nor is your "fiber end caps are bad" or "leaf springs are bad" or whatever nonsense you post. If it's bad, then post studies proving it's bad, post torn media, blown end caps, etc. The fact is if the fiber gets blown apart so will the filter media and that usually means you have bigger issues than filtration. It's your OPINION Fram filters are bad filters and that's fine, just don't think that is fact, cause it's not.

 

[telecat]

Quote:
So, Fram filters...why the bad rap?
Paper end caps.

 

[telecat]

Quote:
...I trust that since they are built to Ford's specs and Ford made the engine that they know what they are doing...
Oh, they know what they're doing all right. But it's not what you think they're doing.

 

[901Memphis]

telecat TROLL!

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: telecat
Quote:
So, Fram filters...why the bad rap?
Paper end caps.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
telecat TROLL!


If a troll is right...is he still a troll?