Snowblower bites the dust/ Oil ratios for 2 cycles

[Tdbo]

[
tdbo, my BIL has the same little gray Craftsman single stage machine with the little Tecumseh 2cycle. I've used it a few times. It's very light and easy to fling around, but sure doesn't toss snow like a Toro.

Joel[/quote]

To compare the two would be like comparing a Lexus to a Hyundai. When I bought the Craftsman, I had a 22 year old Toro that still ran. It needed some work plus I really wanted electric start. Like everything else, at the time I had about six broken things around the house and the budget was strained. I couldn't (at the time ) justify the extra $200 for the Toro with everything else that was going on. So budget harmony won. The Craftsman was a good little machine for what it was, went through some stuff it probably wasn't designed for and in 12 years needed no additional parts other than 1 spark plug. It was a good value and a good decision for the time. In thinking about it, I will probably hang on to it for my retirement project (taking a course and learning to work on small engines) However, the Toro IMO is a better quality piece of equipment at a higher price point and I hope to get comparable years out of it like I did my first Toro. So far, so good.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Lots of good advise, especially this!

Originally Posted By: boraticus

DO NOT run your equipment at 100:1. That's simply bad advice for an air cooled engine. I don't care what kind of oil is used.




Are you saying this because you know what you are talking about or you just agree with things that go against Amsoil as usual?


Did I mention Amsoil? I've worked on enough small TC engines to know that under oiling them causes problems. I was agreeing with boraticus. Lets not go down that road. If I wanted to mention Amsoil I would have.

 

[boraticus]

"tdbo, my BIL has the same little gray Craftsman single stage machine with the little Tecumseh 2cycle. I've used it a few times. It's very light and easy to fling around, but sure doesn't toss snow like a Toro."

I have a 1997 Craftsman SS that I bought used just to play with.
I put a piece of string on the governor lever and drilled a hole through the side of the plastic housing to route the string out and up the handle. I have it secured at the top and left it a bit slack. When I'm using the machine, I can put my finger under the string and pull it like a trigger which actuates the governor over-ride. I can spin the engine close to 7000 rpm if need be. However, I usually keep the engine between 5000 and 6000 rpm when throwing snow. Let me say this: At those speeds, that thing can throw snow impressively. Not quite in the same class as the Toro 221Q but not too far off.

Don't forget that the Craftsman is fourteen years old with lots of miles on it compared to a fresh new Toro. It's actually a lot of fun to use with the throttle.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Panzerman, a TCW3 oil in an air-cooled engine? Even in hot weather? I can see them being used in the winter ... but in hot weather, I think you'd need that extra protection metallic adds provide (not available in TCW3).
That is what I was saying, Boraticus said use a TCW3 oil, I agree with everything he said BUT that, I would opt for a TC rated oil in a air cooled engine. Before I knew better I was using a TCW3 oil in my little Yamaha DT175, that I ride on the road, it sounded loud,pingy and clanky. I switched to a Kawasaki 2 stroke oil, low ash, TC rated oil and it runs so much smoother and quieter, its unbelievable.


I think you may have mis-read what I had written. I didn't say to use TCW-3. That's what Toro recommends. I use conventional TC3 in everything but my outboards.

 

[Warstud]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
DO NOT run your equipment at 100:1. That's simply bad advice for an air cooled engine. I don't care what kind of oil is used.


FYI: Amsoil has been selling 100:1 - 2 cycle oil for close to 40 years.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: Warstud
Originally Posted By: boraticus
DO NOT run your equipment at 100:1. That's simply bad advice for an air cooled engine. I don't care what kind of oil is used.


FYI: Amsoil has been selling 100:1 - 2 cycle oil for close to 40 years.


Go for it.

 

[Panzerman]

Boraticus, I could probably drink beer with you. You give good advice. I agree TCW3 is alot of that biodegradable enviro-friendly garbage and thats why they all claim to use it. The only thing, I seen from tear downs from TCW3 rated marine oil use(in Polaris two stroke atvs) it leaves very hard crusty deposits, on the exhaust ports and piston. Where Motorcycle labeled oils such a Yamalube 2R and Spectro dont, they ussually spooge.

 

[wolfc70]

I have a Toro power clear that I use at work for clearing foreclosed properties. It runs great. I use the Stihl HP ultra. The Toro Rtek engine likes to plug its exhaust ports if cheap oil is used. No way would I run 40:1, 50:1 or higher, unless you like taking the muffler apart once a month to clean it to get the power back. Granted this thing is used hard, every time it snows it runs for about 6 hours. After 3 years of that kind of use compression is still 125 psi, same as new. My preference is the Stihl HP Ultra, or the Amsoil Saber. Both work great and burn very clean.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
I have a Toro power clear that I use at work for clearing foreclosed properties. It runs great. I use the Stihl HP ultra. The Toro Rtek engine likes to plug its exhaust ports if cheap oil is used. No way would I run 40:1, 50:1 or higher, unless you like taking the muffler apart once a month to clean it to get the power back. Granted this thing is used hard, every time it snows it runs for about 6 hours. After 3 years of that kind of use compression is still 125 psi, same as new. My preference is the Stihl HP Ultra, or the Amsoil Saber. Both work great and burn very clean.


What fuel to oil ratio do you use?

 

[wolfc70]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
I have a Toro power clear that I use at work for clearing foreclosed properties. It runs great. I use the Stihl HP ultra. The Toro Rtek engine likes to plug its exhaust ports if cheap oil is used. No way would I run 40:1, 50:1 or higher, unless you like taking the muffler apart once a month to clean it to get the power back. Granted this thing is used hard, every time it snows it runs for about 6 hours. After 3 years of that kind of use compression is still 125 psi, same as new. My preference is the Stihl HP Ultra, or the Amsoil Saber. Both work great and burn very clean.


What fuel to oil ratio do you use?


I run the Stihl HP Ultra at around 50:1, seems to burn very clean. I run the Amsoil Saber around 80:1, hardly ever have exhaust port carbon build up. And the nice thing is neither smoke very much. If you are worried about warranty, run the Stihl HP oil, at the manufacturer recommended ratio, which on the Toro Rtek engines is 50:1.

I initially used the Toro oil, mainly because the dealer gave me a six pack of the small bottles. There was lots of oil blowing out the muffler, and by the time I used up all of the Toro oil, there was a noticeable loss in power. Taking the muffler off and cleaning it out restored the power.

 

[occity79]

Hey;

I think the reason for the TC-W3 being recommended is that the lawn boy (mower ) or Rtek engine runs at a single rpm, and has an iron bore. TC-W3 gives good corrosion protection, unlike certain air-cooled oils. Also TC-W3 is ashless, and should work better in a constant rpm application as there is no change in rpm to shake out the ash from a low-ash oil.

As I usually do, I like the new Mystik Ultimate HP 2 cycle oil, despite being a Citgo product, do any of the oils we get come from a friendly country anyway? I don't like Chavez either, but that's not Citgo's fault?

 

[boraticus]

"Taking the muffler off and cleaning it out restored the power."

I'm having a problem getting my head around that statement.

I bet the volume of an R-tek muffler is close to one litre. It would take a huge amount of deposit to restrict it to the point of causing power loss.

I bought a well used 1997 Craftsman SS machine with a Tecumseh two cycle engine in it. This thing had seen a great deal of hard work. So much so that the rear motor mount had cracked and was almost completely severed. When I bought it, the guy gave me his left over 2 cycle oil which was the same CTC brand Motomaster conventional stuff that I use. He said that's all he had used in it. I took the machine apart and went thoroughly over it. Compression was very good, carb needed cleaning and motor mount repaired.

Inspection of the piston/cylinder through the exhaust/intake ports showed them to be in excellent condition. There was virtually NO carbon build up on the exhaust port and other than a thin film of carbon on the interior, the muffler was completely clean. That's after fourteen years of hard use!

You must have been using some very poor quality 2 cycle oil and/or mixing it at exorbitant ratios to experience that kind of carbon build up.

I've never had a 2 cycle machine accumulate excessive carbon in a muffler to cause power loss or even restriction and I own probably twenty two cycle machines, some of which are over thirty years old.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: boraticus

I've never had a 2 cycle machine accumulate excessive carbon in a muffler to cause power loss or even restriction and I own probably twenty two cycle machines, some of which are over thirty years old.


Totally agree. I've never owned nor come across one either and I tend to err on the 'oily' side.

To me you've got other issues if the muffler is plugging with anything.

Joel

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: boraticus

I've never had a 2 cycle machine accumulate excessive carbon in a muffler to cause power loss or even restriction and I own probably twenty two cycle machines, some of which are over thirty years old.


Totally agree. I've never owned nor come across one either and I tend to err on the 'oily' side.

To me you've got other issues if the muffler is plugging with anything.

Joel


Maybe a mouse nest built in it during the off season. It would take something that large to constrict the flow in a muffler that size.

 

[wolfc70]

Wow, major skepticism here. Just because a muffler is large does not mean all passages are large also. In the Toro service manual, they recommend de-carbonizing the muffler and exhaust port every 200 hours. Talk to any snow removal company with these engines, exhaust port and muffler plugging are pretty common with long run times. Remember, this snowblower gets more use in one day than most get in an entire season. In a typical winter we go through two or three paddles and scraper bars. Most home owner owned units may go through that in 3-5 years. How many gallons of gas does the average homeowner use in a season? Between 2 Power clear 221Q's we have gone through over 5 gallons in a week. We usually replace them at 5 years old, not due to engine failure (which in my time here has never happened)but usually vibration/use fatigue. Granted, some of the people are not very gentle when lifting them in and out of the truck.

I am not knocking these engines/snowblowers. In fact I can not praise them enough. We use them much harder than they were designed for, and they hold up very well in my opinion. If cared for, they would last a homeowner close to his lifetime.

 

[Cujet]

Tests conclusively show that 32 to 1 provides all the protection you will need. That's 4 ounces per gallon.

I've posted test info in the past, but I can't keep writing the same thing all the time.

50 to 1 wears slightly more rapidly under high load conditions.
100 to 1 wears quickly.
16 to 1 produces more power.
Kart engines require 16 to 1 or 20 to 1 due to high stresses.
Oil type is less important than many think for general use.

Bottom line: 32 to 1 works.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Wow, major skepticism here. Just because a muffler is large does not mean all passages are large also. In the Toro service manual, they recommend de-carbonizing the muffler and exhaust port every 200 hours.


Oh I hear you and agree 100%, every 2-stroke pc of equipment I've owned recommends the 'decarbing' procedure somewhere in it's Ops and/or service manual. I've just never needed to do it (and I've checked).

Joel

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Wow, major skepticism here. Just because a muffler is large does not mean all passages are large also. In the Toro service manual, they recommend de-carbonizing the muffler and exhaust port every 200 hours.


Oh I hear you and agree 100%, every 2-stroke pc of equipment I've owned recommends the 'decarbing' procedure somewhere in it's Ops and/or service manual. I've just never needed to do it (and I've checked).

Joel


Same here but I don't run five gallons of fuel every two days through one piece of equipment.

Nonetheless, when I opened up the fourteen year old Tecumseh SS machine, I was surprised how healthy and clean everything was on it. The recommended ratio for it is 40:1 which the previous owner ran it with.

That to me is testament enough to run conventional oil at/or a bit richer than manufacturer's recommendation.

 

[Mamala Bay]

Proper maintenance for any 2 cycle hand held equipment is the KEY as the 2 cycle engine by nature is a dirty engine LONG term. In the US emission control(noise and air), the EPA has enforced their position to tighten and improve conditions with 2 cycle engines.

Environmental such as in Florida with the total ban on fast release fertilizers due to run off that set off algae growth in the Florida Keys because of the low line geographic nature of Florida. A new type of slow release fertilizer was developed for this reason in Florida. It's a new advance fertilizer that doesn't degrade as easily from heat and moisture. PS in an ideal world organic would have no affect with algae growth...

If 2 cycle synthetic oil is trending with the EPA for emission control in the US well you see the pressure for new designs and improvements in 2 cycle engines...

 

[Barkleymut]

I owned a commercial landscaping company for over 8 years. In that time I used only Amsoil at 80:1.

During that time I owned:

5 weedeaters (echo, shindaiwa)
1 hedgetrimmer (echo)
3 backpack blowers (echo, stihl, shindaiwa)
1 Lawnboy 2 stroke

Never once did any of them break down. Not once, used multiple times per day during growing season. I still have a BP blower and weedeater, both over 10 years old, still using Amsoil at 80:1. Argue all you want about 50:1, 32:1, 100:1 all I hear is "my dealer told me to use 50:1 because that is what is on his shelf"