# Snow Tires Without Studs Are Worthless.

#### Ws6

There is difference between road and driveway.
We have some hills well past 18%, but they are short. I will measure the incline of the road leading to my neighborhood in the morning. You have to start it at low speed of course, turning off the highway, and accelerate up it. I am curious what it is.

#### Ws6

Measured the road in to my neighborhood. It has complex contour (banking plus incline) and varied from 4 to 8 degrees (7-14% incline). There are multiple complex hills that I drive on the way to it, which are notably steeper, but you have momentum working for you of course as it's a road, and not the start of one, nor are they a constant grade over say, miles or thousands of feet even, but maybe 300m or so of hill, although one is about 1/2 mile of hill and probably 10-16% grade itself. Regardless, only my 27% gravel driveway with 6-8" of snow was an issue, and apparently that's a significant obstacle that most people use chains for in the snow?

*I am guessing on all grades other than the road and driveway measured, as I did not stop at each hill obviously.

Random hill on my drive, below:

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#### odie

Parts of COLORADO are supposed to get about 4' of snow .

#### edyvw

We have some hills well past 18%, but they are short. I will measure the incline of the road leading to my neighborhood in the morning. You have to start it at low speed of course, turning off the highway, and accelerate up it. I am curious what it is.
When you
Measured the road in to my neighborhood. It has complex contour (banking plus incline) and varied from 4 to 8 degrees (7-14% incline). There are multiple complex hills that I drive on the way to it, which are notably steeper, but you have momentum working for you of course as it's a road, and not the start of one, nor are they a constant grade over say, miles or thousands of feet even, but maybe 300m or so of hill, although one is about 1/2 mile of hill and probably 10-16% grade itself. Regardless, only my 27% gravel driveway with 6-8" of snow was an issue, and apparently that's a significant obstacle that most people use chains for in the snow?

*I am guessing on all grades other than the road and driveway measured, as I did not stop at each hill obviously.

Random hill on my drive, below: View attachment 49158
Street going to my office is steeper than that

#### edyvw

We have some hills well past 18%, but they are short. I will measure the incline of the road leading to my neighborhood in the morning. You have to start it at low speed of course, turning off the highway, and accelerate up it. I am curious what it is.
There is difference between hill and going from 7,500ft altitude and ending up at 11,000ft.

LX25 are nothing special on ice nor are Nokian WR3. You have to get into studless snow tires to notice a difference if ice is involved underneath snow or sheer ice.

#### Ws6

When you

Street going to my office is steeper than that
Glad I don't have to get to your office in a snow storm then, lol!

#### Rand

south central US?
not sure why you wouldnt list at least a state.
Seems a large enough area to still be anon.

Sometimes such as the above posts, a slightly more specific location would be helpful.

#### edyvw

Glad I don't have to get to your office in a snow storm then, lol!
That is not an issue, whatsoever.

#### Ws6

south central US?
not sure why you wouldnt list at least a state.
Seems a large enough area to still be anon.

Sometimes such as the above posts, a slightly more specific location would be helpful.
Missouri. I actually moved since I made this profile several times.

#### Ws6

That is not an issue, whatsoever.
Well, considering I dont run chains or studs, it may be for me, lol

#### edyvw

Well, considering I dont run chains or studs, it may be for me, lol
Yeah, they close down street often bcs. A/S and A/T tires on cars. Often before they shut down, some who would stop while going up would actually slide down.
For snow tires and AWD? not a problem. For snow tires and FWD as long as car is moving (tried with VW CC) not a problem, but not as easy as with AWD obviously.

#### CheezWhiz

anyone who has spent enough time driving in winter conditions with both studless winter tires and all seasons knows the studless winter tires are far superior.

#### Ws6

Yeah, they close down street often bcs. A/S and A/T tires on cars. Often before they shut down, some who would stop while going up would actually slide down.
For snow tires and AWD? not a problem. For snow tires and FWD as long as car is moving (tried with VW CC) not a problem, but not as easy as with AWD obviously.
Yeah, ice I cannot contend with.

#### Jetronic

It all depends on the conditions you will encounter. If it's not likely to snow in your area it's very likely a regular all season is actually the best tyre to use in winter. But if you can get some snow occasionally, maybe an all weather with 3pmsf is a better choice. If snow is absolutely going to come, but it won't be a constant for winter you could step up to a european winter tyre and if snow is a fact of life most of winter, a nordic winter tyre with or without studs is the obvious choice. With studs if the law allows and without if they don't.

There's not always a clear performance difference between the different tyre typres, but there's definitely a trend towards worse wet and dry grip and more sloppy steering behaviour as you get more towards the extreme winter tyres. It doesn't make sense to get a tyre with excellent grip on snow and ice if you won't have more than 1 week of that weather, and then only have 60% of the wet and dry grip of an all season for the rest of winter.

#### edyvw

It all depends on the conditions you will encounter. If it's not likely to snow in your area it's very likely a regular all season is actually the best tyre to use in winter. But if you can get some snow occasionally, maybe an all weather with 3pmsf is a better choice. If snow is absolutely going to come, but it won't be a constant for winter you could step up to a european winter tyre and if snow is a fact of life most of winter, a nordic winter tyre with or without studs is the obvious choice. With studs if the law allows and without if they don't.

There's not always a clear performance difference between the different tyre typres, but there's definitely a trend towards worse wet and dry grip and more sloppy steering behaviour as you get more towards the extreme winter tyres. It doesn't make sense to get a tyre with excellent grip on snow and ice if you won't have more than 1 week of that weather, and then only have 60% of the wet and dry grip of an all season for the rest of winter.
Colorado is really difficult when it comes to choice of tires. I just got back from Wal mart and starbucks run. 50-60mph winds, about 1- 1 1/2ft of snow in some parts of the road, other than that, snow, with frozen slush below. They shut down both I25 and I70 as you cannot see a thing in open flat areas without some structures to orient yourself.
Then, we will have probably 60's this week, than again like this, then 60-70's. One day you might drive in conditions where you need hard core snow tire, and another day where summer performance tire would be most appropriate.

#### Jetronic

In colorado, especially going into the mountains I will take the hit on dry and wet and go for good snow and ice performance

#### edyvw

In colorado, especially going into the mountains I will take the hit on dry and wet and go for good snow and ice performance
Absolutely! I have Viking7 in narrowest size allowed on BMW. Capabilities of a car are too much for such tire, but gladly taking hit bcs. when blizzard hits there, you better be ready. Same goes for all my vehicles. Snow tires and narrowest size possible.

#### Ws6

It all depends on the conditions you will encounter. If it's not likely to snow in your area it's very likely a regular all season is actually the best tyre to use in winter. But if you can get some snow occasionally, maybe an all weather with 3pmsf is a better choice. If snow is absolutely going to come, but it won't be a constant for winter you could step up to a european winter tyre and if snow is a fact of life most of winter, a nordic winter tyre with or without studs is the obvious choice. With studs if the law allows and without if they don't.

There's not always a clear performance difference between the different tyre typres, but there's definitely a trend towards worse wet and dry grip and more sloppy steering behaviour as you get more towards the extreme winter tyres. It doesn't make sense to get a tyre with excellent grip on snow and ice if you won't have more than 1 week of that weather, and then only have 60% of the wet and dry grip of an all season for the rest of winter.
The 3PMSF doen't mean much really. For example, the Michelin CrossClimate SUV is a 3PMSF "all weather" tire. It does worse in snow than the LX25 in objective testing.

Colorado is really difficult when it comes to choice of tires.

Not in my opinion.

We are getting dumped on today pretty heavily.
Luckily my wife and I don't need to go anywhere, but the Abarth has WS-80's on it, and the Giulia has WS-90's on it.
The CX-5 that I just gave to my wife's daughter has Yokohama IG-52's on it.

If you're straddling the edge of winter and spring in Colorado, just have the snow tires on.
You're going to need them.

BC.

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