This is from the Sebring Convertible Forum I am on. The infamous 2.7 engine.
http://www.sebringclub.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16113
http://www.sebringclub.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=16113
Sludge strikes again!
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Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
I get a kick outa "Your sludge is minor compared to bklynites",
,thats minor????? holy cow i'd hate to see bad,what a POS engine!!!!
WOW....now those are sludge monsters!
Originally Posted By: D189379
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump. Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase. Oil passages were enlarged in 2001 and later years, but I personally don't think it has helped.
These 2.7s are really hard on oil. I see a lot of cars that used this engine for sale with blown engines on Craigslist and Ebay. They claim the problem was fixed in 2001, yet I have seen vehicles as new as 2004 with only 70k miles that had bad 2.7s.
If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I used to drive a lot of Chrysler products, but after seeing how they stuck customers to foot the repair bill with these pieces of [censored], I don't think I will ever buy another one (at least not any time soon. The company is under new ownership and reorganization so maybe in the future - I try to keep an open mind). It is sad, I did have good luck with and enjoyed the dozen or so that my family has owned through 1983-2002. I briefly owned a 1999 Intrepid with the 2.7 that I bought used, and after learning about the disaster that they are I ditched it.
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump. Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase. Oil passages were enlarged in 2001 and later years, but I personally don't think it has helped.
These 2.7s are really hard on oil. I see a lot of cars that used this engine for sale with blown engines on Craigslist and Ebay. They claim the problem was fixed in 2001, yet I have seen vehicles as new as 2004 with only 70k miles that had bad 2.7s.
If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I used to drive a lot of Chrysler products, but after seeing how they stuck customers to foot the repair bill with these pieces of [censored], I don't think I will ever buy another one (at least not any time soon. The company is under new ownership and reorganization so maybe in the future - I try to keep an open mind). It is sad, I did have good luck with and enjoyed the dozen or so that my family has owned through 1983-2002. I briefly owned a 1999 Intrepid with the 2.7 that I bought used, and after learning about the disaster that they are I ditched it.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: D189379
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump. Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase. Oil passages were enlarged in 2001 and later years, but I personally don't think it has helped.
These 2.7s are really hard on oil. I see a lot of cars that used this engine for sale with blown engines on Craigslist and Ebay. They claim the problem was fixed in 2001, yet I have seen vehicles as new as 2004 with only 70k miles that had bad 2.7s.
If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I'm a die-hard Chrysler guy, but I would NEVER own a 2.7 with an unknown history (and I'd be wary of owning one at all). I do know one guy on another forum who has around 200k miles on *two* of them, but he does almost all highway driving and is obsessive about oil changes. The good thing is that the 2.7 is a complete oddball in the Chrysler engine family- it is in no way related to *ANY* other engine that they build. I think they designed it solely to replace the Mitsubishi 2.5L v6 that they had been using previously. It doesn't share any dimensions or parts with the other v6 families (3.3/3.8 iron block pushrod or 3.5/3.2/4.0 aluminum block SOHC). Nor is it a sawed-off version of any v8, like the 3.7L 90-degree truck v6 is. I have no idea how its economically justifiable to keep a one-off design like that in production, really. Even if it didn't have all its problems.
In short, NO OTHER Chrysler-built engine has the same design or issues that the 2.7 does. Its almost as if it was built by a completely different company.
Originally Posted By: D189379
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump. Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase. Oil passages were enlarged in 2001 and later years, but I personally don't think it has helped.
These 2.7s are really hard on oil. I see a lot of cars that used this engine for sale with blown engines on Craigslist and Ebay. They claim the problem was fixed in 2001, yet I have seen vehicles as new as 2004 with only 70k miles that had bad 2.7s.
If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I'm a die-hard Chrysler guy, but I would NEVER own a 2.7 with an unknown history (and I'd be wary of owning one at all). I do know one guy on another forum who has around 200k miles on *two* of them, but he does almost all highway driving and is obsessive about oil changes. The good thing is that the 2.7 is a complete oddball in the Chrysler engine family- it is in no way related to *ANY* other engine that they build. I think they designed it solely to replace the Mitsubishi 2.5L v6 that they had been using previously. It doesn't share any dimensions or parts with the other v6 families (3.3/3.8 iron block pushrod or 3.5/3.2/4.0 aluminum block SOHC). Nor is it a sawed-off version of any v8, like the 3.7L 90-degree truck v6 is. I have no idea how its economically justifiable to keep a one-off design like that in production, really. Even if it didn't have all its problems.
In short, NO OTHER Chrysler-built engine has the same design or issues that the 2.7 does. Its almost as if it was built by a completely different company.
The 2.7 in my 2000 Intrepid takes 5.5 quarts when you change the oil and filter. Its not just the PCV valve that you have to watch but also the hose. Chrysler released an updated PCV valve but you have to know the part number to get one.
They are hard on oil. I don't go over 3,000 miles on synthetic.
They are hard on oil. I don't go over 3,000 miles on synthetic.
Originally Posted By: daman
I get a kick outa "Your sludge is minor compared to bklynites",
,thats minor????? holy cow i'd hate to see bad,what a POS engine!!!!
I get a kick outa "Your sludge is minor compared to bklynites",
Keep using that Pennzoil, and just LOOK at him now!!!
I cringed everytime I see any mopar product with a 2.7 in it, heard way to many negative stories about them.
More sludge porn
http://picasaweb.google.com/bklyniteNY/Sebring#
More sludge porn
http://picasaweb.google.com/bklyniteNY/Sebring#
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That was some dirty smut you posted-LOL
The wild thing is that with alot of manuel labor, and nasty chemicals, these sluggers can run agin.
And to add to dishdudes commentary, here is a good link which discusses oil sludge theory
http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: D189379
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump. Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase. Oil passages were enlarged in 2001 and later years, but I personally don't think it has helped.
These 2.7s are really hard on oil. I see a lot of cars that used this engine for sale with blown engines on Craigslist and Ebay. They claim the problem was fixed in 2001, yet I have seen vehicles as new as 2004 with only 70k miles that had bad 2.7s.
If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I used to drive a lot of Chrysler products, but after seeing how they stuck customers to foot the repair bill with these pieces of [censored], I don't think I will ever buy another one (at least not any time soon. The company is under new ownership and reorganization so maybe in the future - I try to keep an open mind). It is sad, I did have good luck with and enjoyed the dozen or so that my family has owned through 1983-2002. I briefly owned a 1999 Intrepid with the 2.7 that I bought used, and after learning about the disaster that they are I ditched it.
http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: D189379
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump. Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase. Oil passages were enlarged in 2001 and later years, but I personally don't think it has helped.
These 2.7s are really hard on oil. I see a lot of cars that used this engine for sale with blown engines on Craigslist and Ebay. They claim the problem was fixed in 2001, yet I have seen vehicles as new as 2004 with only 70k miles that had bad 2.7s.
If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I used to drive a lot of Chrysler products, but after seeing how they stuck customers to foot the repair bill with these pieces of [censored], I don't think I will ever buy another one (at least not any time soon. The company is under new ownership and reorganization so maybe in the future - I try to keep an open mind). It is sad, I did have good luck with and enjoyed the dozen or so that my family has owned through 1983-2002. I briefly owned a 1999 Intrepid with the 2.7 that I bought used, and after learning about the disaster that they are I ditched it.
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: D189379
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump.
It has a 5 liter sump. I get around 5.5 liters into mine with a slighty oversized filter. The sump will actually hold close to 6 liters before it's near the windage tray/girdle.
They do run hot. The thermostat is on the inlet to the block, rather than the outlet as on most engines. That means the coolest water temp the engine sees is around 190F entering the block, versus around 190 F leaving the block on other engines. This was done for increased thermal efficiency.
Quote:
Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase.
With the water pump inside the crankcase, a slow weep either at the case gasket or at the pump shaft seal will cause a gradual sludging.
Quote:
These 2.7s are really hard on oil......If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I've done about 2 dozen UOAs on mine. If there ever was a case for 3K - 3.5K OCI with dino, this is it. GRPIII "synthetics" are good to about 4500 miles. By 5K, you don't have much margin left. I ran full synthetic Amsoil TSO 0W30 for 7500 miles - my longest OCI ever in this engine. It was pretty much shot. Yet that same oil could go 15K - 30K in other engines.
Note the mileage in my signature below. I'm one of the lucky ones.
Originally Posted By: D189379
Why do those engines sludge? Do they run really hot or something?
No one is really sure, theories are that it does run hot - the high temp fan kicks on at 230. It only has a 3.5 quart sump.
It has a 5 liter sump. I get around 5.5 liters into mine with a slighty oversized filter. The sump will actually hold close to 6 liters before it's near the windage tray/girdle.
They do run hot. The thermostat is on the inlet to the block, rather than the outlet as on most engines. That means the coolest water temp the engine sees is around 190F entering the block, versus around 190 F leaving the block on other engines. This was done for increased thermal efficiency.
Quote:
Also there are theories that the water pump which is chain driven weeps into the crankcase.
With the water pump inside the crankcase, a slow weep either at the case gasket or at the pump shaft seal will cause a gradual sludging.
Quote:
These 2.7s are really hard on oil......If I did have one of these, I would stick to synthetic on a 3k oci.
I've done about 2 dozen UOAs on mine. If there ever was a case for 3K - 3.5K OCI with dino, this is it. GRPIII "synthetics" are good to about 4500 miles. By 5K, you don't have much margin left. I ran full synthetic Amsoil TSO 0W30 for 7500 miles - my longest OCI ever in this engine. It was pretty much shot. Yet that same oil could go 15K - 30K in other engines.
Note the mileage in my signature below. I'm one of the lucky ones.
Quick question here, for those in the "know". Are one of these blown engine repairable? Or would it be a futile attempt?
Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Quick question here, for those in the "know". Are one of these blown engine repairable? Or would it be a futile attempt?
Most people do a swap to the 3.2L engine which is very easily done. The 2.7 is nearly impossible to find used because of the huge demand.
Quick question here, for those in the "know". Are one of these blown engine repairable? Or would it be a futile attempt?
Most people do a swap to the 3.2L engine which is very easily done. The 2.7 is nearly impossible to find used because of the huge demand.
ya minor;-). HOLY S@$T, i cant believe that they thought that was minor
I think it is a combination of factors listed above. Poor design of the PCV valve system and the engine that put the waterpump in a postion to leak coolant into the oil when the gasket failed.
I would run Syn oil for sure in these engines for the added margin of safety.
I would run Syn oil for sure in these engines for the added margin of safety.
Why Charpslyer continues to make the 2.7 really baffles me...Its has had a bad reputation from the get go..To even offer the 2.7 in the Charger and the 300 is Disgrace and Charpster should be ashamed of itself for using it in those cars...The standard engine for the Charger and the 300 should be the 3.5...Besides sluging the 2.7 is a way uderpowerd engine..
Just makes no sense to me why they even produce such a horrible engine..Its prabably one of the reasons why Charpslyer is in the shape it is now.
If Ford or General Motors produced such a horrible engine like the 2.7 it would have been gone long ago..Yet Charpsler continues to produce them today..
I fell sorry for the people who haven't got a clue on whats going on that get stuck with those 2.7 engines.
Just makes no sense to me why they even produce such a horrible engine..Its prabably one of the reasons why Charpslyer is in the shape it is now.
If Ford or General Motors produced such a horrible engine like the 2.7 it would have been gone long ago..Yet Charpsler continues to produce them today..
I fell sorry for the people who haven't got a clue on whats going on that get stuck with those 2.7 engines.
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