I also remember working at a refinery where motor oil was being put into 55 gallon drums, gallons and quarts. I'd recognize many of the brands on the containers and even oem brands. I asked the engineer I was working with how they could produce so many oils. He said they don't have mfg or storange tanks for that many oils. Say it is a 10/30 oil they look at the spec all there clients specify and make an oil that meets or exceeds the desired specs that way one storage tank for 10/30 .
Sludge rumors
- Thread starter NHRATA
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People would be blown away if they knew the kind of shenanigans that still go on the manufacturing side... As of recently, Castrol doesn't even blend or bottle their own stuff here anymore. Calumet does.
This is a rampant and common thing even today, maybe even more so now... Hardly anyone actually makes/blends and packages their own oils anymore.
This is a rampant and common thing even today, maybe even more so now... Hardly anyone actually makes/blends and packages their own oils anymore.
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I agree way way back 60/70s QS had a short lived issue with sludge. All oil can sludge in an engine if not properly changed. Engine design is most responsible for sludging.....several are more notorious than others.....Chryslers 2.7 comes to mind but there are others.
I have heard many very excellent mechanics state the Pennsoil and QS rumor as fact. I attribute this to (2) things. As the best selling oil for pretty much ever if you are a mechanic seeing internal engine problems the likelihood said engine was using the most common oil is pretty high and not surprising. That doesn't mean the oil was / is the problem. It means more cars have that brand of oil due to sales popularity and if your tearing down engines for repair you will tear down more engines with the most popular oil than a brand with less market penetration. I also believe it's a fact turbos are hard on coking convention oils not meeting today's standards. (Notice I am saying today's standards). There was a time when turbo technology was ahead of mainstream oil tech or at least proper knowledge to select the proper oil for the turbo. That was a long time ago IMO.
I have heard many very excellent mechanics state the Pennsoil and QS rumor as fact. I attribute this to (2) things. As the best selling oil for pretty much ever if you are a mechanic seeing internal engine problems the likelihood said engine was using the most common oil is pretty high and not surprising. That doesn't mean the oil was / is the problem. It means more cars have that brand of oil due to sales popularity and if your tearing down engines for repair you will tear down more engines with the most popular oil than a brand with less market penetration. I also believe it's a fact turbos are hard on coking convention oils not meeting today's standards. (Notice I am saying today's standards). There was a time when turbo technology was ahead of mainstream oil tech or at least proper knowledge to select the proper oil for the turbo. That was a long time ago IMO.
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***just to add the whole thing w turbos I lay squarely on Chrysler. They took motors for K-Cars that were.....barely adequate and really just a marginal design at best and decided hey let's slap on some turbos.....some w no intercooling. I tend to believe that decision cause pad a lot of slide issues in that era engine and also jaded a lot of folks to turbos like GMs diesled debacle did to diesls.
Originally Posted By: ToadU
***just to add the whole thing w turbos I lay squarely on Chrysler. They took motors for K-Cars that were.....barely adequate and really just a marginal design at best and decided hey let's slap on some turbos.....some w no intercooling. I tend to believe that decision cause pad a lot of slide issues in that era engine and also jaded a lot of folks to turbos like GMs diesled debacle did to diesls.
Lots of fast K cars to this day though. The hotrodders didn't have as many issues with them. Headgaskets were a different story but that's not quite the 2.2s fault when people cranked the boost way up.
Intercooling has no effect on the oil at all though. The oil doesn't care what the charge temperature of the intake is. The issue was they put that motor in EVERYTHING and your Aunt Sandy in her 1990 Plymouth Acclaim didn't check the oil and put 10w30 swill in it once a year or two when her husband reminded her. She shut it down right after drag racing it to the mall etc....Why didn't the people with the same TII motors have that issue in GLHS Omnis? Because they took better care of their cars and knew how they worked. The technology was fine it's just that turbocharging didn't have built in idiot-proofing yet with ANY brand.
***just to add the whole thing w turbos I lay squarely on Chrysler. They took motors for K-Cars that were.....barely adequate and really just a marginal design at best and decided hey let's slap on some turbos.....some w no intercooling. I tend to believe that decision cause pad a lot of slide issues in that era engine and also jaded a lot of folks to turbos like GMs diesled debacle did to diesls.
Lots of fast K cars to this day though. The hotrodders didn't have as many issues with them. Headgaskets were a different story but that's not quite the 2.2s fault when people cranked the boost way up.
Intercooling has no effect on the oil at all though. The oil doesn't care what the charge temperature of the intake is. The issue was they put that motor in EVERYTHING and your Aunt Sandy in her 1990 Plymouth Acclaim didn't check the oil and put 10w30 swill in it once a year or two when her husband reminded her. She shut it down right after drag racing it to the mall etc....Why didn't the people with the same TII motors have that issue in GLHS Omnis? Because they took better care of their cars and knew how they worked. The technology was fine it's just that turbocharging didn't have built in idiot-proofing yet with ANY brand.
Sludge formation, like flat tapper wear is a victim of changing technology, and manufacturers, both car and oil, not communicating properly, and also owner neglect. Poor engine crankcase ventilation, poor, or non-specific oil design, oci going way to long with older oils made for the perfect storm. My guess is that oil companies that had little Sludge problems were mostly just luck.
Nowadays, with crude coming from the same places, and everybody sharing it, along with waaay better technology has largely eliminated the problem, with only the Uber long oci still the only real problem.
I wouldn't be afraid to use any decent oil, including Rural King, ST, etc,,,hey wait, I have used them, a lot.
Nowadays, with crude coming from the same places, and everybody sharing it, along with waaay better technology has largely eliminated the problem, with only the Uber long oci still the only real problem.
I wouldn't be afraid to use any decent oil, including Rural King, ST, etc,,,hey wait, I have used them, a lot.
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Why does a better PVC system prevent sludge ?
Is it better at removing water and condensation from the engine?
Is it better at removing water and condensation from the engine?
Originally Posted By: SR5
Why does a better PVC system prevent sludge ?
Is it better at removing water and condensation from the engine?
Condensation is part of it and venting crankcase pressure is another. Some vehicles, especially factory turbocharged high performance engines with high crankcase pressures almost need PCV system upgrades from the factory. Under intense pressure and heat, even decent oil can fail. PVC systems that are excellent can make a good oil work even better.
Why does a better PVC system prevent sludge ?
Is it better at removing water and condensation from the engine?
Condensation is part of it and venting crankcase pressure is another. Some vehicles, especially factory turbocharged high performance engines with high crankcase pressures almost need PCV system upgrades from the factory. Under intense pressure and heat, even decent oil can fail. PVC systems that are excellent can make a good oil work even better.
Sheared VII oxidizes more than the base oil and the rest of the add pack.
Let's not forget the turbo minivan! Not scientific but I don't really see many K cars around today as compared to other makes of that era. Could just be sample bias on my observation. And yes, you are correct about the inter-cooling and oil but I was just pointing out as an aside they literally slapped on a turbo to an engine that really wasn't up for it some without intercooling....especially the tranny was hard pressed already.
I love what Chrysler did with the turbo & K cars. True, it was lacking a fair bit of engineering in a few areas, but some of the issues were ironed out as the years went by. It certainly wasn't a 200k powertrain combo, but someone who knew the car with some semblance of car-mechanical knowledge would typically have a decent ownership experience. Wish I owned one...
Let's not forget, most cars produced in the mid-late eighties, into the early nineties had their fair share of drawbacks.
Let's not forget, most cars produced in the mid-late eighties, into the early nineties had their fair share of drawbacks.
Originally Posted By: jayg
Originally Posted By: SR5
Why does a better PVC system prevent sludge ?
Is it better at removing water and condensation from the engine?
Condensation is part of it and venting crankcase pressure is another. Some vehicles, especially factory turbocharged high performance engines with high crankcase pressures almost need PCV system upgrades from the factory. Under intense pressure and heat, even decent oil can fail. PVC systems that are excellent can make a good oil work even better.
Good to know. Thanks mate.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Why does a better PVC system prevent sludge ?
Is it better at removing water and condensation from the engine?
Condensation is part of it and venting crankcase pressure is another. Some vehicles, especially factory turbocharged high performance engines with high crankcase pressures almost need PCV system upgrades from the factory. Under intense pressure and heat, even decent oil can fail. PVC systems that are excellent can make a good oil work even better.
Good to know. Thanks mate.
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