SLUDGE!!! Need some oil experts...
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MMO = yes! HDEO=yes. Thermostat, PCV, = yes.
Change the oil and especially the oil filter as often as possible.
May I suggest leaving the oil in for 2-3 thousand and changing the oil filter every 300-500 or so.
Get the engine up to operating temperature as much as possible.
I'm not a fan of kerosene or diesel in the oil.
I believe in all or none for manually removing sludge.
My reasoning is that once you disturb it and don't remove all of it from a particular area, the remaining sludge will have a tendency to come off in chunks.
Of course if you can remove substantially "all" of the sludge from the rocker cover area...carry on.
With the oil "full" on the dipstick how much oil drains out when changing?
Anything less than nominal capacity drained out, equals how much sludge is in the oil pan.
If the nominal amount of oil drains out you "probably" won't need to pull the oil pan.
Progress can be checked in this manner also.
Good luck sir.
Rickey.
Change the oil and especially the oil filter as often as possible.
May I suggest leaving the oil in for 2-3 thousand and changing the oil filter every 300-500 or so.
Get the engine up to operating temperature as much as possible.
I'm not a fan of kerosene or diesel in the oil.
I believe in all or none for manually removing sludge.
My reasoning is that once you disturb it and don't remove all of it from a particular area, the remaining sludge will have a tendency to come off in chunks.
Of course if you can remove substantially "all" of the sludge from the rocker cover area...carry on.
With the oil "full" on the dipstick how much oil drains out when changing?
Anything less than nominal capacity drained out, equals how much sludge is in the oil pan.
If the nominal amount of oil drains out you "probably" won't need to pull the oil pan.
Progress can be checked in this manner also.
Good luck sir.
Rickey.
Originally Posted By: Rickey
MMO = yes! HDEO=yes. Thermostat, PCV, = yes.
Change the oil and especially the oil filter as often as possible.
May I suggest leaving the oil in for 2-3 thousand and changing the oil filter every 300-500 or so.
Get the engine up to operating temperature as much as possible.
I'm not a fan of kerosene or diesel in the oil.
I believe in all or none for manually removing sludge.
My reasoning is that once you disturb it and don't remove all of it from a particular area, the remaining sludge will have a tendency to come off in chunks.
Of course if you can remove substantially "all" of the sludge from the rocker cover area...carry on.
With the oil "full" on the dipstick how much oil drains out when changing?
Anything less than nominal capacity drained out, equals how much sludge is in the oil pan.
If the nominal amount of oil drains out you "probably" won't need to pull the oil pan.
Progress can be checked in this manner also.
Good luck sir.
Rickey.
I agree with everything above, but I think it would be worth the trouble to drop the oil pan if that is at all practical and scrape all the sludge out of it first. If not, and you go with one quart of MMO in the oil mix to try to dissolve it gradually, listen carefully and watch the oil pressure for anything unusual as you drive for the first few weeks. Don't travel far from home. Be prepared to change the oil, MMO and filter several times. When you change the oil, do it soon after the engine has been running and look for clots - which hopefully you will not see - and also a "milkshake" consistency that would indicate antifreeze in it as you drain. In addition to MMO, Rotella conventional 15w40 or straight 30 weight is what I'd use for the clean up oil.
This is bad sludge, but I've seen just as bad and even worse - think of the valve cover as a "jello mold." That was back in the 1960s when engines were vented instead of having PCV systems and oil refineries put out stuff that had to be changed often - or else! That's where our present day sludge mythology comes from.
MMO = yes! HDEO=yes. Thermostat, PCV, = yes.
Change the oil and especially the oil filter as often as possible.
May I suggest leaving the oil in for 2-3 thousand and changing the oil filter every 300-500 or so.
Get the engine up to operating temperature as much as possible.
I'm not a fan of kerosene or diesel in the oil.
I believe in all or none for manually removing sludge.
My reasoning is that once you disturb it and don't remove all of it from a particular area, the remaining sludge will have a tendency to come off in chunks.
Of course if you can remove substantially "all" of the sludge from the rocker cover area...carry on.
With the oil "full" on the dipstick how much oil drains out when changing?
Anything less than nominal capacity drained out, equals how much sludge is in the oil pan.
If the nominal amount of oil drains out you "probably" won't need to pull the oil pan.
Progress can be checked in this manner also.
Good luck sir.
Rickey.
I agree with everything above, but I think it would be worth the trouble to drop the oil pan if that is at all practical and scrape all the sludge out of it first. If not, and you go with one quart of MMO in the oil mix to try to dissolve it gradually, listen carefully and watch the oil pressure for anything unusual as you drive for the first few weeks. Don't travel far from home. Be prepared to change the oil, MMO and filter several times. When you change the oil, do it soon after the engine has been running and look for clots - which hopefully you will not see - and also a "milkshake" consistency that would indicate antifreeze in it as you drain. In addition to MMO, Rotella conventional 15w40 or straight 30 weight is what I'd use for the clean up oil.
This is bad sludge, but I've seen just as bad and even worse - think of the valve cover as a "jello mold." That was back in the 1960s when engines were vented instead of having PCV systems and oil refineries put out stuff that had to be changed often - or else! That's where our present day sludge mythology comes from.
Thanks for the advice, sounds like I have gotten a lot of good suggestions. I'm going to go ahead and pull the oil pan and clean it out, just to see what it looks like. I'll take a few pics, and will probably go ahead and change the thermostat, or at least remove it and check it out. I'll definitely replace the PCV, and pick up a few more oil filters, some cheap oil, and MMO for a few runs. I guess I'll just drive the Jeep more, which shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Those 90's Jeep Engines(4 cyl and 6cyl) are bullet proof engines. You could pour cement into the engine and it would still run(figuratively speaking of course).
-Physically clean what you can, as best as you can. This would minimize the amount of debris that will be in suspension when you start doing your cleaning phase.
-Use 1/2 - 1qt of MMO. I suggest MMO because myself and many others have seen it work, it works slowly, but the results will show after a few hundred miles and a few filter changes. MMO is cheap(Walmart for 1qt is $3.64) compared to AutoRX and other products. Do several oil changes, short OCI's(1-2k) 2 or 3 times. You won't need to tear it open again as the oil fill hole will provide you with plenty of visibility to peer in with a flash light(gotta love Jeep designs).
-Buy the $5-10 PCV replacement. Inspect engine for coolant leaks while not extremely prone most vehicles tend to give way after some time.
-Enjoy! - Fill it up with a oil of your choice and drive. I miss my 94 Wrangler Sport with the 4.0L engine.
-Physically clean what you can, as best as you can. This would minimize the amount of debris that will be in suspension when you start doing your cleaning phase.
-Use 1/2 - 1qt of MMO. I suggest MMO because myself and many others have seen it work, it works slowly, but the results will show after a few hundred miles and a few filter changes. MMO is cheap(Walmart for 1qt is $3.64) compared to AutoRX and other products. Do several oil changes, short OCI's(1-2k) 2 or 3 times. You won't need to tear it open again as the oil fill hole will provide you with plenty of visibility to peer in with a flash light(gotta love Jeep designs).
-Buy the $5-10 PCV replacement. Inspect engine for coolant leaks while not extremely prone most vehicles tend to give way after some time.
-Enjoy! - Fill it up with a oil of your choice and drive. I miss my 94 Wrangler Sport with the 4.0L engine.
Originally Posted By: Anies
Those 90's Jeep Engines(4 cyl and 6cyl) are bullet proof engines. You could pour cement into the engine and it would still run(figuratively speaking of course).
-Physically clean what you can, as best as you can. This would minimize the amount of debris that will be in suspension when you start doing your cleaning phase.
-Use 1/2 - 1qt of MMO. I suggest MMO because myself and many others have seen it work, it works slowly, but the results will show after a few hundred miles and a few filter changes. MMO is cheap(Walmart for 1qt is $3.64) compared to AutoRX and other products. Do several oil changes, short OCI's(1-2k) 2 or 3 times. You won't need to tear it open again as the oil fill hole will provide you with plenty of visibility to peer in with a flash light(gotta love Jeep designs).
-Buy the $5-10 PCV replacement. Inspect engine for coolant leaks while not extremely prone most vehicles tend to give way after some time.
-Enjoy! - Fill it up with a oil of your choice and drive. I miss my 94 Wrangler Sport with the 4.0L engine.
EXCELLENT + 1
Those 90's Jeep Engines(4 cyl and 6cyl) are bullet proof engines. You could pour cement into the engine and it would still run(figuratively speaking of course).
-Physically clean what you can, as best as you can. This would minimize the amount of debris that will be in suspension when you start doing your cleaning phase.
-Use 1/2 - 1qt of MMO. I suggest MMO because myself and many others have seen it work, it works slowly, but the results will show after a few hundred miles and a few filter changes. MMO is cheap(Walmart for 1qt is $3.64) compared to AutoRX and other products. Do several oil changes, short OCI's(1-2k) 2 or 3 times. You won't need to tear it open again as the oil fill hole will provide you with plenty of visibility to peer in with a flash light(gotta love Jeep designs).
-Buy the $5-10 PCV replacement. Inspect engine for coolant leaks while not extremely prone most vehicles tend to give way after some time.
-Enjoy! - Fill it up with a oil of your choice and drive. I miss my 94 Wrangler Sport with the 4.0L engine.
EXCELLENT + 1
Originally Posted By: Jason280
Quick question, should I stick with cheap 10w30 until I get everything cleaned out?
5w30.
I'd prefer something along the lines of Pennzoil, Mobil drive clean (if you thinking about a used oil analysis do NOT use this) Halvoline DS or QS. Valvoline, GTX and Mobil all use sodium and that will mess up a used oil analysis since you may be looking for coolant if you run one.
Bill
Quick question, should I stick with cheap 10w30 until I get everything cleaned out?
5w30.
I'd prefer something along the lines of Pennzoil, Mobil drive clean (if you thinking about a used oil analysis do NOT use this) Halvoline DS or QS. Valvoline, GTX and Mobil all use sodium and that will mess up a used oil analysis since you may be looking for coolant if you run one.
Bill
If it's a winter project as you said, pull the head and drop it off at a machine shop. They can drop it in a hot tank and clean it up, while it's there you can have them check everything else and replace anything that's needed.
In the mean time you can clean the pushrods and rockers yourself, drop the pan and clean the bottom end. Replace the rear main seal and pan gasket, reinstall the head when it's finished and your good to go.
Of course also do what some of the others suggested, pcv and thermostat...
In the mean time you can clean the pushrods and rockers yourself, drop the pan and clean the bottom end. Replace the rear main seal and pan gasket, reinstall the head when it's finished and your good to go.
Of course also do what some of the others suggested, pcv and thermostat...
Originally Posted By: jazeo
If it's a winter project as you said, pull the head and drop it off at a machine shop. They can drop it in a hot tank and clean it up, while it's there you can have them check everything else and replace anything that's needed.
In the mean time you can clean the pushrods and rockers yourself, drop the pan and clean the bottom end. Replace the rear main seal and pan gasket, reinstall the head when it's finished and your good to go.
Of course also do what some of the others suggested, pcv and thermostat...
++1 this is what i would do!
If it's a winter project as you said, pull the head and drop it off at a machine shop. They can drop it in a hot tank and clean it up, while it's there you can have them check everything else and replace anything that's needed.
In the mean time you can clean the pushrods and rockers yourself, drop the pan and clean the bottom end. Replace the rear main seal and pan gasket, reinstall the head when it's finished and your good to go.
Of course also do what some of the others suggested, pcv and thermostat...
++1 this is what i would do!
Originally Posted By: hate2work
1) Clean as much gunk off that you can by hand and scraper, whatever. Replace your valve cover with a new gasket.
2) Remove the oil pan and clean it as well, reinstall the pan. Make sure you clean the oil pickup if it's dirty.
3) Take a trip to Walmart, get three cheap Super Tech oil filters, three gallons of cheap Super Tech oil, and a gallon of MMO.
4) Do three short 500 mile OCIs with a quart of MMO in each fill, and replace the filter each time. Cut open the filter each time to track the progress of how much is being cleaned.
5) After it's cleaned up use a good syn oil for 5k OCIs and sleep well.
Good luck
PS- Don't use the ATF.
My 4.0L was similar. This is great advice. ^^^
ALSO the overnight kero soak is great advice.
Don't worry so much about internal passages. if they were clogged, the lifters would rattle and the engine would be showing other nasty signs of doom.
A few frequent oil changes AFTER physical and chemical cleaning and you should be good to go.
I suspect you'll see more buildup on the head where it cooks in heat than in the pan.
M
1) Clean as much gunk off that you can by hand and scraper, whatever. Replace your valve cover with a new gasket.
2) Remove the oil pan and clean it as well, reinstall the pan. Make sure you clean the oil pickup if it's dirty.
3) Take a trip to Walmart, get three cheap Super Tech oil filters, three gallons of cheap Super Tech oil, and a gallon of MMO.
4) Do three short 500 mile OCIs with a quart of MMO in each fill, and replace the filter each time. Cut open the filter each time to track the progress of how much is being cleaned.
5) After it's cleaned up use a good syn oil for 5k OCIs and sleep well.
Good luck
PS- Don't use the ATF.
My 4.0L was similar. This is great advice. ^^^
ALSO the overnight kero soak is great advice.
Don't worry so much about internal passages. if they were clogged, the lifters would rattle and the engine would be showing other nasty signs of doom.
A few frequent oil changes AFTER physical and chemical cleaning and you should be good to go.
I suspect you'll see more buildup on the head where it cooks in heat than in the pan.
M
Ok, I picked up a couple new filters, 10 quarts of oil, and 3 quarts of MMO. I haven't had a chance to pull the oil pan, but will do so once I get a chance. I also went ahead and picked up a new thermostat and t-stat gasket, but was unable to get a new PCV valve. Neither Autozone nor Advance listed one as "required", and didn't have one available. Guess I'll just clean mine up real well and put everything back together.
I want to see how this one turns out...
Good luck!
Good luck!
Ok, here are a few updated pics. I went to work with a small screw driver and the vacuum, and tried to clean out as best I could. Here's what collected in the vacuum:
That's a pretty gnarly mess!
Here's the rocker arms and top after my efforts:
Valve cover:
Its certainly looking a lot better now, but still a far fry from normal. I still haven't had a chance to pull the oil pan and check the screen, but should be able later this evening.
That's a pretty gnarly mess!
Here's the rocker arms and top after my efforts:
Valve cover:
Its certainly looking a lot better now, but still a far fry from normal. I still haven't had a chance to pull the oil pan and check the screen, but should be able later this evening.
What was the previously use oil? any idea?? know the history at all? just wondering.
Originally Posted By: Anies
Those 90's Jeep Engines(4 cyl and 6cyl) are bullet proof engines. You could pour cement into the engine and it would still run(figuratively speaking of course).
-Physically clean what you can, as best as you can. This would minimize the amount of debris that will be in suspension when you start doing your cleaning phase.
-Use 1/2 - 1qt of MMO. I suggest MMO because myself and many others have seen it work, it works slowly, but the results will show after a few hundred miles and a few filter changes. MMO is cheap(Walmart for 1qt is $3.64) compared to AutoRX and other products. Do several oil changes, short OCI's(1-2k) 2 or 3 times. You won't need to tear it open again as the oil fill hole will provide you with plenty of visibility to peer in with a flash light(gotta love Jeep designs).
-Buy the $5-10 PCV replacement. Inspect engine for coolant leaks while not extremely prone most vehicles tend to give way after some time.
-Enjoy! - Fill it up with a oil of your choice and drive. I miss my 94 Wrangler Sport with the 4.0L engine.
I agree. I would if at all possible try to physically remove as much of that junk as possible to hedge my bet. IMO getting the junk out of the pan is probably most important. I would ease into the MMO run with a pint for 1000 miles, then dump the oil and filter then try a qt for a 1000 miles and repeat. It is going to take time to remove that junk the same way it took time to get it in there. Be 100% certain the PCV system is working and there are no coolant leaks before starting the clean up!
Those 90's Jeep Engines(4 cyl and 6cyl) are bullet proof engines. You could pour cement into the engine and it would still run(figuratively speaking of course).
-Physically clean what you can, as best as you can. This would minimize the amount of debris that will be in suspension when you start doing your cleaning phase.
-Use 1/2 - 1qt of MMO. I suggest MMO because myself and many others have seen it work, it works slowly, but the results will show after a few hundred miles and a few filter changes. MMO is cheap(Walmart for 1qt is $3.64) compared to AutoRX and other products. Do several oil changes, short OCI's(1-2k) 2 or 3 times. You won't need to tear it open again as the oil fill hole will provide you with plenty of visibility to peer in with a flash light(gotta love Jeep designs).
-Buy the $5-10 PCV replacement. Inspect engine for coolant leaks while not extremely prone most vehicles tend to give way after some time.
-Enjoy! - Fill it up with a oil of your choice and drive. I miss my 94 Wrangler Sport with the 4.0L engine.
I agree. I would if at all possible try to physically remove as much of that junk as possible to hedge my bet. IMO getting the junk out of the pan is probably most important. I would ease into the MMO run with a pint for 1000 miles, then dump the oil and filter then try a qt for a 1000 miles and repeat. It is going to take time to remove that junk the same way it took time to get it in there. Be 100% certain the PCV system is working and there are no coolant leaks before starting the clean up!
Good start!
Be careful that the particles you chipped up dont block oil passages or grind up the bearings.
Like other have said, 'soaking' the engine full to the brim in Kero or dielsel wouldn't be a bad idea to soften stuff and make it wash out....
Be careful that the particles you chipped up dont block oil passages or grind up the bearings.
Like other have said, 'soaking' the engine full to the brim in Kero or dielsel wouldn't be a bad idea to soften stuff and make it wash out....
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