sistering floor beams

[JHZR2]

I hope to have some toimorrow night.

Thingsw have been prety crazy for us, so havent had enough time to attend to this project...

Thanks!

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

OK, here we go...

I went down in the basement and took pics of the joists, as well as a couple other 'issues' that Id apprteciate advice upon.

Ill post them below (hopefully the pics will load and wont take too long) with a bit of text about what I noted below it... So, itll actually be three different issues that I'm hoping pretty please to get advice upon.

If the pics dont load, Id appreciate views to the yahoo album at:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jmh58/album?.dir=/d362re2&.src=ph&.tok=phvZXzEBszvzbMbI

Thanks again!

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

IMG_4755.jpg

So here we have a pic of all the 2x10 joists that have cutouts...

Stupid me, I didnt measure how long the run actually was, but Id guess 10-12ft. I measured that between the crisscross support member, and the center beam and whatnot, that I can run a scab about 5.5ft for each. One of the three, Ill have to cur out a notch almost identical to the one in the existing joist, to make way for the wire that runs through... oh well, not much I can do for that, but at least another will be sharing the load.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

IMG_4756.jpg

Here we have a (sorry its sideways) measurement of the notches cut out. About 33%, so its right borderline on how much you can take out. Given a few other issues Ill show in the next few pics, I want to sister it with at least a scab, no matter what.

JMH

[ May 01, 2006, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]

 

[JHZR2]

IMG_4758.jpg

So here will be the tough one... Ill have to cut an identical notch in the scab sister to make way for the wire passing through. Not much I can do though, and 2 notched sisters must still be stronger than one.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

IMG_4769.jpg

OK, now, something else fun and interesting... This is in the 'shop', under the 2x8 joists that run the width of the original enclosed porch (as opposed to the 2x10s that run the length of the house) for runs of ~12 feet before meeting a double 2x6 in the center with acts as the center beam for the room.

In this pic, we're looking at the joise right in front of and to the left of where one would walk int he front door. We thought the floor was a bit springy, only to note when looking into it closer that the joist was worn away by about 1.5" for a length of about 2-3 ft from the center beam over.

This is a simple sistering job, which will put a support touching the floorboards (I might put a scab on the othjer side too for extra support), and take away the spring that is a result of nothing touching between the floor abd the joist.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

IMG_4767.jpg

OK so here is why that small patch of floor is so springy... The center beam for the porch (which runs in the forward direction, i.e. from where you enter the porch from the street to where you enter the real house) is a doubled up 2x6. The joists are 2x8s, that are cut so that there is only about 1-2" of material resting on the center doubled beam (the center beam doesnt actually support floorboards at all). So, in that one particular spot, the joist doesnt touch any floorboards for support, nor does the center beam, so there is a relatively large square with minimal support. I think sistering that 'worn' joist, hopefully with a scab on one side and a fulllength sister on the other, will do the trick.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

IMG_4770.jpg

OK, last joist question for the night, and another for the thinking caps.

Granted the porch shouldnt have to support as much weight as a main floor in the house, but IMO this is a bit lacking... The doubled 2x6 'center beam' that I mentioned at the last picis supported by the concrete foundation on the one side, but on the other, there is a doorway (the area under the porch is like a little seperate room, with just a doorway in the middle), with a small wood upper crossmember to make the top of the doorframe. It is this small crossmember that you see here supporting the centerline beam for the porch.

Problem is, IU cant just put a 2x2 or 4x4 support from the floor to this point, as it would make the doorway not passable.

Maybe at this point Im getting too far fetched. The porch feels sound, and there is no apparent issue with the way its currently supported. I just get to thinking too much and that makes me worry, I guess. All the same, any good ideas for supporting this better would be great.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

IMG_4761.jpg

OK, last one for the night, and yet another one for the thinking caps..

This house is unlike any Ive seen, even in the similar age range... Instead of having a subfloor of planks or plywood, with the real floor nailed into it, this house has only 3/4" or so planks, directly sitting on the joists.

The floor feels plenty sturdy, it doesnt shake or deflect any more than in any other old house Ive been in, and there are no issues with the floor... however, its just odd that there is no subfloor in the house. Makes me wary of refinishing the floors with a sander, which will take away material.

Anyway, there is one place where there is an issue. There are beautiful brass hot water radiators throughout the house (except the bathroom which has an original cast iron baseboard heat). The one in the living room (and the one on the porch does this as well but to a lesser extent) is sinking the floor down under its weight. I couldnt get a great pic of it, but perhaps you can see the floor planks bowing a bit.

SO, I need to redistribute the weight and support it, so that it doesnt ruin the floor or fall through! Though it gives no signs of doing so, I want to get everything done right, so Id like to try to take care of this.

SInce the radiators are up against the walls, I cant easily nail supports of any type to joists on two sides. I can only attach it to a joist on one side.

So my thought is this: If I get a piece of 2x10, and place it up against the floor under the radiator feet, and then slowly raise it with a floor jack, then I can get the floor back to somewhere near its original position, and then use that 2x10 under the floor planks, supported by two 4x4 or 2x2 pieces of wood extending to the ground to provide support underneath of the radiator feet. This ought to remove some load from the floor and joists, and I can use the 2x2 or 4x4 as the basis for some storage or a shelf in the basement, which isnt a bad thing at all.

So, essentially, I'd have a 3-D 'T' consisting of a 2x2 (or 4x4 if I want to get fancier) and a 2x10 laying parallel to the floor, wedged in to transfer the weight of the radiator on the 3/4 inch floor, to the basement floor, thus not ruining the wood floor by giving way so much under the weight of the brass hot water radiator.

Good idea? Bad idea? Any suggestion?

Thanks again for all the help... I hope the pics work.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

By the way... the joists in the main house are all 2x10s with more or less 16" centers, and the ones for the porch are 2x8s with more or less 17" centers.

A number of the joists seem to have bowed a bit one way or another, due to drying or load or whatever it might me that causes them to get a little bit curved.

There are quite a few crisscross supports between the joists to stiffen them... but I suppose they dont do much if the joists want to curve and bend as they aged.

Thanks again!

JMH

 

[Amkeer]

leave it alone!

 

[Bret Chase]

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
leave it alone!

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I agree.. I've seen plumbers do far worse damage running their drain lines.

 

[JHZR2]

Well the loist thathas a gap between it and the floorboards needs something done... the floor is bouncy underneath as a result!

AS for the others, is it best to leave them alone because of the cost, time, potential damage that I could do to something else, or just because its plain not necessary?

Thanks!

JMH

 

[Amkeer]

All of the above...

 

[JHZR2]

Fair enough!

Thanks!

JMH