well easy if you look at some of your parts in your "import" cars you will see that most of the parts are made in America,Mexico,China,ECT...Toyota has got a plant in Nashville, TN,#@$%! there even in Nascar Now. With americans employees The Pontiac Gto for example is or was made in Austrlia.
Sick of American-car bashing....
- Thread starter AstroVic
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I too am a subscriber to CR. The only problem I have with CR data is that its based on who will send in the info and be honest. I for one perfer American cars (yes I've owned Japan cars). I'm honest and will report troubles. I know a lot of import owners that luv the cars so much they just aren't honest about the cars. I'm not saying everyone is that way, but it seems thier Japan cars can do no wrong in thier eyes. They are all built by man's hand. If you think the toy is so great...why the sludge motors? Why do they also sell ext. warranty and have a repair shop?
C'mon CC, you just have to keep it above that level. . .
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What gives you that idea? I hear this all the time but it is completely false. Gm spends more money each year maintaning their existing domestic plants that the imports do building plants. Then there is the idea that there are more domestic parts in an import than a domestic. Also false. Your average Kia has 3% domestic parts content. Your average toyota or honda, not much more. Your average gm or ford vehicle has 75%. I don't know where such ideas come from.
I agree..... domestic Content
Domestic Content by Brand
Chrysler (domestic brands) 78%
Ford (domestic brands) 78%
GM (domestic brands) 74%
Honda/Acura 59%
Hyundai/Kia 3%
Isuzu 79%
Mitsubishi 36%
Nissan/Infiniti 46%
Subaru 26%
Toyota/Lexus 47%
Volkswagen/Audi 4%
listed PDF file of domestic content by make & model
Make & Model US content %
Make & Model US content %
I'm not here to bash Japanese cars or any other import cars,(they truly build great cars, not the best, I think the Germans, and Italians, make the best cars but the reality is that, car companies are united, Volvo for example have some of the best mechanical engineers that FORD has to offer working for them, it's a global economy, I was watching
the commerical for the new Toyota Tundra, if you listen closely, the guy speaking even states "The All New 2007 Toyota Tundra Made In America!"
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YESSIR!! It is QUITE sad (and a SHAMEFUL DISGRACE to an otherwise GREAT site) that I MUST put that disclaimer into every thread where I send people from the LSx boards over here for oil info.Maybe we should make trade/disparaging remarks about ANY auto manufacturers/brands/marques/countries of origin, etc. VERBOTEN (on the SAME level as religion/sex/politics) on here, and just get back to arguing about what this site was created for, OIL!!!
If someone starts a thread like this, they should expect a lot of discussion. You can't bait everyone with such a controversial topic, then complain when people come on here and give their opinions. It's like, "Imports are c-r-a-p. Domestics rule!" Then when someone disagrees or defends the imports, all of sudden BITOG is nothing but domestic bashers.
As far as "bashing", it goes both ways. It's not just import fans bashing domestics, it goes the other direction, too. I hear lots of stuff like "Japanese rust buckets", "sludge monsters", "cheap appliances", and such when it comes to imports. But I guess that's okay...it's only when it goes the other way that it's considered bashing.
Personally, I'm not bashing either one...I own both, and will continue. I just get what works for me and my family. I look more at reliability than just about anything else, and right now, I think that Honda has a little bit of an advantage there, and Ford for the domestics. Some may disagree, and that's okay. But I'm just looking at statistics, and feel pretty confident in my choices.
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I too am a subscriber to CR. The only problem I have with CR data is that its based on who will send in the info and be honest. I for one perfer American cars (yes I've owned Japan cars). I'm honest and will report troubles. I know a lot of import owners that luv the cars so much they just aren't honest about the cars. I'm not saying everyone is that way, but it seems thier Japan cars can do no wrong in thier eyes. They are all built by man's hand. If you think the toy is so great...why the sludge motors? Why do they also sell ext. warranty and have a repair shop?
Yes, it's only based on who sends in their responses. But that's probably as good a method as any. Moreover, there is no evidence to suggest that import owners are statistically any less inclined to report problems (i.e. "be honest") than domestic owners.
And if so, one could argue the same thing for German cars, etc. Some of the fiercest defenders of their cars are German upscale and luxury car owners, because of their reputation and because of their legitimately superior driving and handling performance and cutting edge technologies. And yet they also report German cars as being the least reliable and having consistently and significantly higher than average maintenance costs. For many, that's a trade-off they are willing to make for the other positive ownership experiences they have. (Suggesting that "owner satisfaction" and "reliability" are two separate and distinct measurements.) But as far as the German reliability problems, it's not ME saying it, and it's not some independent reviewer or expert saying it...it's the OWNERS THEMSELVES saying it. So what's good for the goose (Japanese) is good for the gander (German).
The amateur psychologist in me would suggest that humans, by nature, want to justify their decisions and choices and avoid looking like, well...dufuses. So it may be typical to "defend" what we've bought and be perhaps a little hesitant to report problems, regardless of the country of manufacture. It seems to me that this would be universal, not just limited to Japanese car owners.
Not to sound like a broken record, but I keep going back to the pure statistical side of things. Sure, there are probably anomalies, but overall, with sample sizes of that magnitude, and with people self-reporting problems (perhaps even reluctantly), it's got to be as good as anything else out there, IMHO. (As for Toyotas, they had some specific instances of sludge problems, and may still. I don't know. And I've never owned a Toyota. But *statistically*, overall, they're still at the top of the heap...for now. g20ooh will keep us updated on that though!
"I see more Hondas/Toyotas/etc. on the side of the road than anything else."
True, but be fair, most of those cars are 20 to 25 years old.
True, but be fair, most of those cars are 20 to 25 years old.
Oh yeah, and that "side of the road sightings" comment is TRULY one of the most scientific analyses I've ever read.
Not that shop owners would publicly allow people to view their database. As per fact majority of my customers that have larger "maintenance" bills are chevs, fords, and chryslers (jeep).
Yes toyota's seem to be having issues with sludge. Frequent oil changes with synthetic seems to be a cure.
Chevs: leaking intake gaskets, low life alternators, bouncing tensioners, dying fuel pumps, leaking heatercores, quad 4 platforms (worst POS), not so reliable power window motors etc etc
Fords not that much better.......
Chryslers not that much better......
Toyota and Hondas are typically the ones that come in for oil changes and general maintenance. Honda's tend to eat cv boots, distributors otherwise typical Tbelt maintenance work. Toyota's have EGR solenoid issues typically but otherwise its maintenance like oil changes and brakes.
Primarily my shop is filled with domestics. If I had a dominant Toytota, Honda customer base I would have closed my doors years ago. Oil changes and brake changes do not pay the bills. 500-700 dollar (cdn) Tbelt/water pump changes happens every 100,000km's so thats not enough volume to pay for fixed expenses for a regular independant shop. Perhaps if I raped my loyal customers (loyalty is associated with honesty) it would be a different topic and story all together.
My huge house mortage is payed for by domestic cars. Fact not fiction. What do I drive??? Toyota Matrix xrs (not a perfect car but still reliable). My wife drives a 2001 honda crv. I can buy a Ford for virtually a couple hundred above dealership cost...do I own one???
I'm not bashing. I'm speaking from a shop operators point of view.. not hearsay. If you want to get your facts straight speak to a tow truck operator. He/she will regurgitate my facts.
Yes toyota's seem to be having issues with sludge. Frequent oil changes with synthetic seems to be a cure.
Chevs: leaking intake gaskets, low life alternators, bouncing tensioners, dying fuel pumps, leaking heatercores, quad 4 platforms (worst POS), not so reliable power window motors etc etc
Fords not that much better.......
Chryslers not that much better......
Toyota and Hondas are typically the ones that come in for oil changes and general maintenance. Honda's tend to eat cv boots, distributors otherwise typical Tbelt maintenance work. Toyota's have EGR solenoid issues typically but otherwise its maintenance like oil changes and brakes.
Primarily my shop is filled with domestics. If I had a dominant Toytota, Honda customer base I would have closed my doors years ago. Oil changes and brake changes do not pay the bills. 500-700 dollar (cdn) Tbelt/water pump changes happens every 100,000km's so thats not enough volume to pay for fixed expenses for a regular independant shop. Perhaps if I raped my loyal customers (loyalty is associated with honesty) it would be a different topic and story all together.
My huge house mortage is payed for by domestic cars. Fact not fiction. What do I drive??? Toyota Matrix xrs (not a perfect car but still reliable). My wife drives a 2001 honda crv. I can buy a Ford for virtually a couple hundred above dealership cost...do I own one???
I'm not bashing. I'm speaking from a shop operators point of view.. not hearsay. If you want to get your facts straight speak to a tow truck operator. He/she will regurgitate my facts.
I, the Mighty Obbop, accept the majority (but not every single one) of opinions on this message board much more than the opinions expressed by the average American blithering idiot bumbling through life with a very small knowledge base.
Often, I hear/read average American opinions that are merely knee-jerk rhetoric based upon knowedge attained via acculturation, from equally ignorant mommy/daddy while being raised after the spawning period and from what I can only proclaim to be propaganda designed to brainwash the citizen/shape so as to meet the needs of bureaucracies/government/elites/and a host of folks with agendi designed to maintain the status quo.
For example, a representative case, one that I believe is pervasive; a relative knows NOTHING about self-propelled vehicles. No mechanical knowledge at all!!! Never has used a wrench or changed oil or read even the shortest article about ANYTHING to do with cars or trucks. The brain-dead doofus can babble for hours about sales at the mall or which entertainment figure is supposedly having an affair or a multitude of, to me, utterly worthless info.
Yet, that same person will assure all present that Toyota is the ONLY car to own. Spewing the wonders of Toyota I would ask where the knowledge came from for that proclamation to be made. Well, yah' know, EVERYBODY knows Toyota is the best.
BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The illogic of so many feeble-minded sheeple is abhorent!!!!! Sure, Toyota makes good vehicles!!!! I've owned two of 'em. But, there's many other makes out there that scoot down the road divinely.
Well, corporations and marketing folks have spent billions of dollars over the decades to determine the best methods of propagandizing and brainwashing the masses. Appears the effort and bucks were well-spent.
I hope the above at least makes a wee bit of sense, considering that entire books have been written about the topic with no definitive provable conclusions being reached....... and the debate continues.
Often, I hear/read average American opinions that are merely knee-jerk rhetoric based upon knowedge attained via acculturation, from equally ignorant mommy/daddy while being raised after the spawning period and from what I can only proclaim to be propaganda designed to brainwash the citizen/shape so as to meet the needs of bureaucracies/government/elites/and a host of folks with agendi designed to maintain the status quo.
For example, a representative case, one that I believe is pervasive; a relative knows NOTHING about self-propelled vehicles. No mechanical knowledge at all!!! Never has used a wrench or changed oil or read even the shortest article about ANYTHING to do with cars or trucks. The brain-dead doofus can babble for hours about sales at the mall or which entertainment figure is supposedly having an affair or a multitude of, to me, utterly worthless info.
Yet, that same person will assure all present that Toyota is the ONLY car to own. Spewing the wonders of Toyota I would ask where the knowledge came from for that proclamation to be made. Well, yah' know, EVERYBODY knows Toyota is the best.
BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The illogic of so many feeble-minded sheeple is abhorent!!!!! Sure, Toyota makes good vehicles!!!! I've owned two of 'em. But, there's many other makes out there that scoot down the road divinely.
Well, corporations and marketing folks have spent billions of dollars over the decades to determine the best methods of propagandizing and brainwashing the masses. Appears the effort and bucks were well-spent.
I hope the above at least makes a wee bit of sense, considering that entire books have been written about the topic with no definitive provable conclusions being reached....... and the debate continues.
Does anyone know if there is a place on the web that has the percentage content of US parts, not domestic parts which includes Canada. I am just curious as I do not know the impact that Canadian parts have on the overall percentage. No biggie, just curious.
Ordered a bunch of AC Delco stuff and most of it was made in china. A high percentage of cranks in many domestics are china forged too (so I've been told)
Alot of ford OE parts are Mexico made. Fords use nice soft butter brazilian #@$%! aluminum
heads. LOL!!!
Doesn't matter what you buy it'll all be made off shore or non North American.
Next time you buy a new Fenco master cylinder, waterpump for your domestic car you'll get a rude awakening. They are now all made in china. They have bad QC...I KNOW.
Bosch rebuilt starters are now coming from china.
Thing about japanese makes is that I can order OE parts made in Japan from Worldpac. Its roughly the same price as the bad QC aftermarket parts from other parts of the world.
Japanes cars are still primarily made with japanese made parts through and through.
Its not often you hear of shop buying waterpumps and master cylinders from the dealership. Domestics are in for it BAD because even new parts are not even made in North America.
At least japanese imports have alot of stuff still made in a non 3rd world cheap labour country. Some of the QC is excellent but usually NOT.
Not bashing or disrespecting "American made" just stating facts. IT no longer north American.
Alot of ford OE parts are Mexico made. Fords use nice soft butter brazilian #@$%! aluminum
heads. LOL!!!
Doesn't matter what you buy it'll all be made off shore or non North American.
Next time you buy a new Fenco master cylinder, waterpump for your domestic car you'll get a rude awakening. They are now all made in china. They have bad QC...I KNOW.
Bosch rebuilt starters are now coming from china.
Thing about japanese makes is that I can order OE parts made in Japan from Worldpac. Its roughly the same price as the bad QC aftermarket parts from other parts of the world.
Japanes cars are still primarily made with japanese made parts through and through.
Its not often you hear of shop buying waterpumps and master cylinders from the dealership. Domestics are in for it BAD because even new parts are not even made in North America.
At least japanese imports have alot of stuff still made in a non 3rd world cheap labour country. Some of the QC is excellent but usually NOT.
Not bashing or disrespecting "American made" just stating facts. IT no longer north American.
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