Should turbos be avoided for longevity?

[Rmay635703]

Turbos in areas that get below freezing coupled with short trips are always a disaster.

Diesel or gas naturally aspirated is more reliable anywhere with a winter.

 

[ctechbob]

Something I haven't seen mentioned.

There's lots of talk about boost and egt's as if the turbo is boosting 100% of the time and just running flat out. I've been logging some data towing with my travel trailer and even with a small engine and heavy load, you're still in vacuum more than you would think. Driving unloaded is even more telling. The maximum boost I've seen reported on my 2.3L is 21lbs, and with the trip I just logged I spiked to that number one time. Most of the time the most boost that the truck is running is 15lbs.

Caveat, the below graphs are NOT highway running, it is a lot of secondary roads with varying speeds. I haven't had a chance to do any logging on a highway run. Even running on the highway at 70mph (unloaded) I'm only seeing a couple of pounds of boost when I glance at Torque Pro.

Here is unloaded, most of the time, unless I'm really getting on it to merge or just use a pile of gas there's just not a lot of boost here.

This is towing (6000#, 8 foot wide travel trailer.), this represents about 30 min of the trip. Yes, it is taking a lot more power to move the thing, but it still isn't 'full send' all the time.

 

[gregk24]

Yeah, but that engine is from a different time period, and how to keep it alive indefinitely was a design criteria back then, and its relatively understressed. I don't think too many of the little whiz bangers in GM's new small SUV's are going to go 300k miles without some major repair....
Are there any small turbo engines in any common recent cars that have a good reputation for doing big miles without problems? Maybe GM's 2.0 after 2015? I dunno, I can think of a lot of turbo engines that weren't so good.

One of my patients was just telling me that her 2018 Chevy Trax (1.4 T) blew the turbo. $2800 I believe was what she said they weee going to have to pay. My cousins 2017? Hyundai Tuscan (1.6 T) blew the turbo at 95K miles. Some designs are certainly better than others, avoid the bad ones and MAINTAIN the good ones and I think you will have a good service life.

 

[gregk24]

It depends on the turbo. Mitsubishi single stage turbos are incredibly reliable and that's what Honda uses on their engines and you don't hear about issues with them and for good reason. But those junk American or German non single stage turbos will have a much higher chance of failing you during the long term ownership.

Idk VW has a pretty good track record. They have been doing it for a long time.

 

[dumkid]

In my dumb kid opinion, turbos are less reliable, but turbo engines are usually built better than naturally aspirated engines from the same engine family. And some people (Germans mostly) build better turbos/engines than other people (im looking at you kia)

Besides turbo engines are usually more fun to drive, who needs reliability?

 

[supton]

Turbos in areas that get below freezing coupled with short trips are always a disaster.

Diesel or gas naturally aspirated is more reliable anywhere with a winter.

Or just avoid short trips? Not disagreeing with you on the short trip issue, but I have plenty of winter here, and I would not avoid a turbo because of winter--but to me, a short trip to the grocery store is 9 miles each way.

But I have to admit, none of my NA cars have ever lost a turbo, while my one turbo car did indeed lose one.

Then again, my only turbo was a TDi, and before regen stuff came along. I never had a problem with EGR coking, but have no desire to mess with the latest TDi's, as much as I would like to, I'm afraid the TCO/cpm isn't there.

 

[vpr5703]

In my dumb kid opinion, turbos are less reliable, but turbo engines are usually built better than naturally aspirated engines from the same engine family. And some people (Germans mostly) build better turbos/engines than other people (im looking at you kia)

Besides turbo engines are usually more fun to drive, who needs reliability?

To be fair - Hyundai/Kia can't build NA engines properly, either.

 

[SHOZ]

My Hyundai 2L turbo has a natural convection coolant flow that actually reverses direction of the water or heat actually. When you shut it off the hot coolant goes up to the back of the head and relatively cooler coolant enters from the bottom.

137k miles on OE turbo. You can easily change the cartridge in it too to basically rebuild it. It's a simple band clamp.

 

[CarDoc66]

One of my patients was just telling me that her 2018 Chevy Trax (1.4 T) blew the turbo. $2800 I believe was what she said they weee going to have to pay. My cousins 2017? Hyundai Tuscan (1.6 T) blew the turbo at 95K miles. Some designs are certainly better than others, avoid the bad ones and MAINTAIN the good ones and I think you will have a good service life.

You need to shorten OCI and replace the turbo oil feed line every 60K and that turbo will last. GM (in their infinite wisdom) routed the feed line behind the exhaust manifold, over the turbo. The heat literally cokes up the oil line in a short time.
The feed line is as cheap as doing a set of plugs and all the filters.
I've owned four different turbo cars and never had a turbo failure.

 

[vpr5703]

You need to shorten OCI and replace the turbo oil feed line every 60K and that turbo will last. GM (in their infinite wisdom) routed the feed line behind the exhaust manifold, over the turbo. The heat literally cokes up the oil line in a short time.
The feed line is as cheap as doing a set of plugs and all the filters.
I've owned four different turbo cars and never had a turbo failure.

Really? I've been wondering why I keep hearing about those engines failing. What the hell, GM?

 

[pghvolvo]

My 87 Volvo 2.3L Turbo Charger seized at 242K miles. I traded the car in with 370K miles on the original engine. As long as you do oil changes at severe service intervals according to your owners manual with a good synthetic, your turbo should last a long time.

 

[pbm]

I bought this one new in '13 so just hit 10 years old last month. Had to really dig around to find a loaded SE so all possible options but with the 5 speed. It' really a good little car. My son loves it and actually is going to start autocrossing it this year...it's got springs/dampers, rear sway bar, and a tune (just lets you get some power from running 93).

I bought a new 2014 Focus SE and had to look around to find a 5 speed M/T. It's only got 71K because my driving dropped after retiring in 2016. It's been extremely reliable and trouble free and still even has the original brake pads. Ford should have dropped the DCT and went with the 6F35 as soon as the issues showed themselves because it appears the DCT was basically unfixable due to its design (many had to be fixed numerous times),
Ford lost a lot of future customers by refusing to admit failure of the DCT and moving on.....would you buy another Ford after the Focus DCT broke your heart?

 

[vpr5703]

I bought a new 2014 Focus SE and had to look around to find a 5 speed M/T. It's only got 71K because my driving dropped after retiring in 2016. It's been extremely reliable and trouble free and still even has the original brake pads. Ford should have dropped the DCT and went with the 6F35 as soon as the issues showed themselves because it appears the DCT was basically unfixable due to its design (many had to be fixed numerous times),
Ford lost a lot of future customers by refusing to admit failure of the DCT and moving on.....would you buy another Ford after the Focus DCT broke your heart?

The 6F35 had it's fair share of issues as well, though. In Ford's version of the 6F, the valve body bores would wear out and the trans would start being sluggish shifting. Typically from 1-2 and 2-3, sometimes into reverse. As the bore wore out, it would just stop shifting as it couldn't develop pressure. This issue is what sent my Fusion to the junkyard.

 

[pbm]

In my originally post i was referring to small engines with turbos 1.5L.

Not 2.5L and so on.

I agree with you....comparing a larger engined Volvo turboed car, which have been out for decades with great reputations to a 1.5T from a domestic manufacturer installed in an SUV isn't apples to apples IMO. I went for the 2.5 Duratec in my Escape and I'm glad I did. Having said this I wish Ford sold the Fiesta ST with the 1.5T Dragon 3 cylinder here in the states. A small turboed engine in a light car is another story IMO.

 

[pbm]

The 6F35 had it's fair share of issues as well, though. In Ford's version of the 6F, the valve body bores would wear out and the trans would start being sluggish shifting. Typically from 1-2 and 2-3, sometimes into reverse. As the bore wore out, it would just stop shifting as it couldn't develop pressure. This issue is what sent my Fusion to the junkyard.

Sorry to hear that. What year was your Fusion? At what mileage did the trans fail at? Did you ever change the ATF? I ask because I have the 6F35 in my Escape. I'm at 66K and have changed the ATF 3 times already and I'm hoping it last as long as the 2.5.

 

[vpr5703]

Sorry to hear that. What year was your Fusion? At what mileage did the trans fail at? Did you ever change the ATF? I ask because I have the 6F35 in my Escape. I'm at 66K and have changed the ATF 3 times already and I'm hoping it last as long as the 2.5.

It was a 2011, and I changed the ATF every 100k. Never looked burnt or smelled burnt. My buddy at a dealership told me that if my trans was affected it *should've* failed between 100 and 150k. What saved mine was that all my mileage was highway, so I stayed out of the lower gears. The trans finally started having the issue at 320k, and I junked it at 324. Which was a shame, as the 2.5L NA engine Ford put in that car is as reliable as the sun, and even at the end it burned less than 8oz of oil over a 10k mile OCI. I miss that engine.

 

[pbm]

It was a 2011, and I changed the ATF every 100k. Never looked burnt or smelled burnt. My buddy at a dealership told me that if my trans was affected it *should've* failed between 100 and 150k. What saved mine was that all my mileage was highway, so I stayed out of the lower gears. The trans finally started having the issue at 320k, and I junked it at 324. Which was a **** shame, as the 2.5L NA engine Ford put in that car is as reliable as the sun, and even at the end it burned less than 8oz of oil over a 10k mile OCI. I miss that engine.

While I don't think the 6F35 is a trouble prone transmission I do realize it's gonna need PM to get it to last over 300K (which is my goal and I think you did pretty good to get to 324K with 100k A/T changes) I did my first D&R at 16K and the fluid looked brownish but didn't smell burnt (people say it is normal for the Mercon LV to turn brownish). I did the second D&R at 32K and it was slightly less brownish. I did the 3rd D&R at 49K and it was even less brownish and actually looked red. I plan on doing D&R's every 25 to 30K from now on....I hope this makes the tranny last as long as the 2.5.

PS: While my ATF change schedule may be overkill...I think it's ridiculous that Ford says the ATF should be changed every 150K.

 

[vpr5703]

While I don't think the 6F35 is a trouble prone transmission I do realize it's gonna need PM to get it to last over 300K (which is my goal and I think you did pretty good to get to 324K with only one A/T change) I did my first D&R at 16K and the fluid looked brownish but didn't smell burnt (people say it is normal for the Mercon LV to turn brownish). I did the second D&R at 32K and it was slightly less brownish. I did the 3rd D&R at 49K and it was even less brownish and actually looked red. I plan on doing D&R's every 25 to 30K from now on....I hope this makes the tranny last as long as the 2.5.

I did 2 D&Rs. One at 100K and the next around 200K. Each one was a 3x drain and refill to get as much old fluid out as possible. And yea - Mercon LV doesn't hold it's color long at all. So it's kind of a false flag to rely just on color with that fluid. The dye package just wears out quickly LOL

Good luck with the trans!

 

[CanAmAndMore]

I would imagine the technology is even better today. But as the previous owner of a 1995 Volvo 850 gas turbocharged engine car, that still ran well when I sold it with 570,000 kms on the odometer, I wouldn't worry too much.

Oh and I read the comments about cold climate use.
We get -45 to -50 here every winter, and had 0 issues with it.

 

[c502cid]

You need to shorten OCI and replace the turbo oil feed line every 60K and that turbo will last. GM (in their infinite wisdom) routed the feed line behind the exhaust manifold, over the turbo. The heat literally cokes up the oil line in a short time.
The feed line is as cheap as doing a set of plugs and all the filters.
I've owned four different turbo cars and never had a turbo failure.

Except in my case I changed the turbo oil feed line at 95,000 miles and it was a clear as the new one. This was using basically any oil at the time and 5-6,000 mile OCI. I follow the Trax and Cruze forums and turbo failure is not as rampant as someones brothers, customer, cousins, roommate make them out to be. Not saying they don't go bad, but other stuff breaks too.