Should I use Auto-Rx or a similar product?

[JohnH]

Monday I replaced a leaking Valve cover gasket on my 2000 Toyota Sienna and while the cover was off I noticed a lot of build up.

I believe it is sludge, but it is not a "gel" like substance. It's actually flaky and gritty and has accumulated in the corners. The bolts holding down the cams are covered in it also, but it's baked on those. I'm worried those flakes are going to move around and clog the oil passages in the motor, the oil pick up screen and oil filter. The oil warning light came on while my wife was driving the car yesterday, but the engine didn't seem to have any power loss. We've parked it while we try to figure this out.

I've been reading a lot of treads about Auto-Rx, Rislone and MMO and would like to know if using these types of additives can harm the motor by allowing the flakes & sludge to start moving around.

I was ready to buy MMO or Rislone today at NAPA and two different employees said they wouldn't suggest it. Both felt it would just cause more problems in the future by letting the flakes/sludge move through the motor.

I just changed the oil 300 miles ago, but I am going to go out and change the oil and filter again and drop the oil pan to see if the screen is clogged.

An advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[c3po]

Use MMO with confidence, I just did a 1500 mile run with MMO in my aunt's car. Before MMO you could see some discolorization on the camshaft, I was able to do this by taking the oil cap off and within 1300 miles the camshaft is now spotless.

Arx will do nothing for the sludge in your Valvetrain. Arx will also break deposits off into chunks which could lead to problems.

If you were to add about 20% MMO by oil volume then you should have no problems.

 

[Vspec]

C3PO, id really like any proof you have that Auto-RX "will also break deposits off into chunks which could lead to problems."

While I agree MMO is safe to use in the oil, Auto-RX does work as advertised.

Ive had experience in the following applications with good success, including compression tests on Subarus, SR and 4AGE. Compression increased on the 04 to proper levels, stayed normal on the 09 and increased on the 4AGE.

03 Nissan SER Spec-V QR25DE motor
04 Subaru WRX STi (compression improved)
09 Subaru WRX STi (compression remained the same)
93 240SX with SR20DET
03 Jaguar X-Type (Stopped Main seal leak)
86 Toyota Corolla GTS - 158k miles 4AGE. Compression increased

I can also say that Auto-RX cleaned a good amount of sludge on the 03 Sentra and the 86 Toyota.

With that said, either product will work properly and produce unique results on each application.

What works best for one person, vehicle, motor may not work the same on another or FOR another.

 

[panthermike]

I would use MMO myself. Although if its relatively easy, dropping the pan would be a good idea, especially since the light came on. Then you can carry on w/ cleaning the motor.

 

[Astro14]

Toyota engines are notorious for developing sludge of the kind you describe. The big concern here is the oil pressure light! If it's on at all, you could be doing serious damage...you won't notice a power loss until the engine is toast...

First, get an accurate oil pressure reading with a real gauge at the sender location. IF it's low. Stop, pull the pan and replace the pump. Don't drive it with low pressure unless you're in the market for a new engine or a new car...

IF it's normal, replace the sending unit.

Then worry about the sludge...and the advice on here is good. Avoid using kerosene or other harsh solvents, you'll create more problems than you solve...

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Vspec
C3PO id really like any proof you have that Auto-Rx " will break deposits off into chunks which could lead to problems



: Auto-Rx & MMO [Re: sprintman]
Jax_RX8


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 325
Loc: Northern VA, USA I think there is one big difference between MMO and Auto-RX that has not been discussed - MMO "dissolves" sludge, carbon, and varnish (LC20 does this too, but not as well IMHO) while Auto-RX "loosens" sludge and carbon (little to no effect on varnish as witnessed by many).

For my money, I would rather have a product that dissolves and keeps in suspension all those contaminants until an oil change rather than have a product that loosens them to float through the oil system, hoping it does not clog any oil passages, until such time as it is caught by the oil filter (which in time it clogs it too, requiring replacement).

There is another member on here that had turbo issues (burnt up) when using Auto-RX, likely through loosening the crud (instead of dissolving it) and it clogging the turbo's oil passages. While this is part speculation on my part, I can sure see how this could easily happen to a turbo or any other small oil passages - toasted main bearings anyone?

This said - I think in most instances Auto-RX will help, but there are more risks with it's use than MMO IMHO.

Debate away.

Top

 

[Pablo]

I want to know more about the engine - how many total miles, what oils and OCI's?

 

[willix]

I would expect 85% of the crud you have already seen under the valve cover.

You could drain the oil & remove the cover again & manually clean the crud off with other chemicals allowing the deposits wash down & to drain right back out the drain.

I would do a short drain & using the drained oil with something added to the oil & start over with a fresh oil change again.

The OP is unaware he has started a oil additive fight on his first post.

 

[Spyder7]

I used MMO on my Toyota that was bought 10 years old in May, to clean out a mildly sludged engine. It was generally take care of - 8 years of dealer maintenance then 2 of independent service station maintenance - but developed it as a result of a clogged PCV valve that was still factory. With only one exception, the oil had been changed every 5k (OEM spec'd OCI), and it had seen dino - mostly Toyota branded XOM - its entire life before I bought it.

I did one OCI starting in August, after replacing the PCV valve and using PP 5W30 plus 20 ounces spread over two crankcase dosings (12 oz initially during the OC, and another 8 oz over the last 1/3rd of the 3k OCI).

I was pleased with the results. In November I did a second, short cleaning OCI with the new API SN PYB and no additive other than the zMAX I had decided to experiment with as it was the current hot topic when I was changing the oil. That OCI was run for 2K. I am satisfied that the engine has cleaned up enough to go back to a 5k OCI, using the Syntec in my sig. After that I'll use PP from my oil stash again over the summer, but look to stretch the OCI out a bit further than 5k.

That was my own (ongoing) approach to cleaning the engine up gradually, safely, and using oils from my oil stash (except the PYB I bought on sale just for that OCI).

I recommend MMO because it is easily available (no mail order required), inexpensive, proven, and safe. You don't have to use a full quart to see benefits of it. You could easily dose the crankcase with just a pint, spread the quart over two short cleanhing OCIs (3k max regardless of the oil you choose), then follow it up with a 3rd short(ened) OCI using just the oil with no MMO, if you feel the engine warrants it.

That is how I would approach cleaning up a mildly sludged Toyota engine like yours or mine and I was satisfied in my own application of this method.


-Spyder

 

[electrolover]

i vote harsh solvent flush like seafoam for 30 mins before you drain the oil and drop the pan
watch the oil pressure or light and if it comes on or pressure drops shut it down.
then run mmo for a couple short ocis

 

[Trav]

I would put anything in there or pull the pan until i did a oil pressure test with a mechanical gauge.You may have sludge causing it or just a plugged/bad pressure sensor.
Once you know what your dealing with then look at the various cleaning options.

Do not run the engine again without getting an actual oil pressure reading.JM2C

 

[ChuckBerry]

Since neither MMO or ARX are quick solvent type flushes I would be surprised if either one would cause "chunks" to break off. ARX works by slowly emulsifying the sludge, to be rinsed away by the next oil change. The concentration of dichlorobenzenes (the stuff that actually does the sludge cleaning) in MMO is less than 1% of the product, so it would surprise me if MMO was capable of so quickly attacking carbon deposits that it would break off a hunk big enough to cause oil starvation.

If you are that concerned, bite the bullet and do (or pay) for a full engine tear down and hand clean it all. Otherwise, I would order a bottle of ARX and start a clean phase.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
If you are that concerned, bite the bullet and do (or pay) for a full engine tear down and hand clean it all. Otherwise, I would order a bottle of ARX and start a clean phase.


The oil light is on!
Nothing should be started before he knows for sure there is enough oil pressure there to run that engine.

Please lets not give advice that may blow this guys engine trying just to prove one product or another may work.

 

[demarpaint]

As Trav said check for oil pressure first. I would use MMO to clean it up. IMO MMO does a much better job dissolving engine deposits, than A-RX, having used both products. I would also consider Kreen, which would be the fastest of the three. I'd rather not go to deep into why I feel people are hearing odd noises etc with A-Rx vs other cleaning products, PM me if you like.

Chuck it is a combination of ingredients in MMO that disolve sludge and varnish, and not ~ 1% dichlorobenzene doing it by itself.

 

[JohnH]

Thank you to all who responded. I had no idea I would get so may responses or that they would come so quickly.

 

[JohnH]

I was unable to drop the oil pan, but I did an oil & filter change and the oil light did not come on during a short trip around the block.

However, this morning I took it on a short drive and the oil warning light came on under braking. I've checked the oil level and for leaks and both are fine.

I've scheduled an appointment to get the oil presure checked and will probably have him pull the oil pan and check the screener.

Thanks again for all your replies and suggestions.

Happy New Year to all.

 

[Ausfahrt]

Originally Posted By: willix
The OP is unaware he has started a oil additive fight on his first post.


Score.

 

[Pablo]

Thanks for the update. Please tell us more about the engine, previous lube maintenance, etc

 

[ahoier]

Originally Posted By: JohnH
I was ready to buy MMO or Rislone today at NAPA and two different employees said they wouldn't suggest it. Both felt it would just cause more problems in the future by letting the flakes/sludge move through the motor.
I don't know about Rislone, but MMO is an "oil" combined with solvent, to clean up the engine innerds....once it's loosened it up, it then keeps the "crud" in suspension until the oil is drained...basically, whatever it cleans up should become "one" with the motor oil, until it gets filtered by the oil filter. Or at least, that's what the various motor oil adverts want is to believe

The oil itself is supposed to keep the "sludge" in suspension until the filter can filter it, and/or the oil is drained.

Sounds like just another un-educated parts counter guy

But yea, given the fact that you've changed the oil and filter recently, I'm thinking it must be the screen that's plugged up...if not, then the oil pump itself is going bad? Otherwise, perhaps try another oil filter?

But now, if the vehicle had timely maintenance history, I can't see the oil screen or pump malfunctioning like this.....and why would the light only come on while "braking"?

 

[Not the Autorx Frank]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Thanks for the update. Please tell us more about the engine, previous lube maintenance, etc


Lol. Good thing most here aren't doctors. I love the way there are 20 diagnosis with no actual information.