I've seen these filters around this forum lately and would like to try them. I'm familiar with bypass filters, but apparently these can serve a similar purpose without the external filtration setup? I have a '96 miata and an '07 Civic Si I'd like to try them on. These cars are driven hard/redlined daily (if it matters), and the oil is changed frequently only on the miata. The civic usually has at least 8k mile+ oci's. Both cars get regular UOA. I have always used Amsoil in both cars. Any reason not to try the filters in these applications?
Should I try a MicroGreen oil filter?
- Thread starter Guitarman200806
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No particular reason to avoid them, since you do uoa it will be a fun experiment for you.
Originally Posted By: Guitarman200806
I've seen these filters around this forum lately and would like to try them. I'm familiar with bypass filters, but apparently these can serve a similar purpose without the external filtration setup? I have a '96 miata and an '07 Civic Si I'd like to try them on. These cars are driven hard/redlined daily (if it matters), and the oil is changed frequently only on the miata. The civic usually has at least 8k mile+ oci's. Both cars get regular UOA. I have always used Amsoil in both cars. Any reason not to try the filters in these applications?
Because of the part in red, I'd contact MicroGreen and ask if they have any data of what the 'flow vs delta-p' is across the filter. If it can't take 8~10 GPM of hot oil flow before opening the bypass valve, then it's not a good application for a car driven at redline often.
I've seen these filters around this forum lately and would like to try them. I'm familiar with bypass filters, but apparently these can serve a similar purpose without the external filtration setup? I have a '96 miata and an '07 Civic Si I'd like to try them on. These cars are driven hard/redlined daily (if it matters), and the oil is changed frequently only on the miata. The civic usually has at least 8k mile+ oci's. Both cars get regular UOA. I have always used Amsoil in both cars. Any reason not to try the filters in these applications?
Because of the part in red, I'd contact MicroGreen and ask if they have any data of what the 'flow vs delta-p' is across the filter. If it can't take 8~10 GPM of hot oil flow before opening the bypass valve, then it's not a good application for a car driven at redline often.
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Exactly....are they implying the filter replenishes the add pack?
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Exactly....are they implying the filter replenishes the add pack?
Originally Posted By: Mark_Walk
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Exactly....are they implying the filter replenishes the add pack?
Just like the bypass filters, those claims must be taking into account the make-up oil required due to discarding the element.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Exactly....are they implying the filter replenishes the add pack?
Just like the bypass filters, those claims must be taking into account the make-up oil required due to discarding the element.
That part I don't get, what could you possibly see in a UOA? Any reputable filter is going to be filtering quite well at the end of the OCI, and besides how many particles are floating around in the oil anyway? Regardless of the efficiency, in a multi-pass environment all particles within the (ever increasing) capability of the filter will be captured.
Just what exactly would you see in a UOA that would indicate a difference between a normal filter and this one? I can't imagine any test outside of a standard laboratory filtering test that would show any difference unless there was some sort of catastrophic failure of the element.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Just what exactly would you see in a UOA that would indicate a difference between a normal filter and this one? I can't imagine any test outside of a standard laboratory filtering test that would show any difference unless there was some sort of catastrophic failure of the element.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Thanks for the replies. I will contact MicroGreen for more info on flow and pressure changes. The civic si already has an Amsoil bypass unit installed. I guess these could be used on my miata. Or maybe the civic if I found them effective and removed the Amsoil standalone bypass. Although I would say that I am happy with the bypass system I currently have. Still haven't changed the oil after 12k+ miles and 9 months. First UOA post bypass install coming soon and I will post it on BITOG.
I'm doing a particulate test on these filters right now. But it will be several months before they finish. A UOA/TBN/Particle count will be done every 5k miles with a filter change at 15k. Part of the theory is that the less particles/contamination floating around in the oil, the less the add pack depletes neutralizing them. The test is being performed on 4 Ford 4.6 liter engines and 3 Ford 3.6 liter engines and a lone GM 5.7 liter.
Will post the results.
Will post the results.
How are you controlling the number of passes through the filter? And what are you comparing your results against?
Originally Posted By: 03cvpi
I'm doing a particulate test on these filters right now. But it will be several months before they finish. A UOA/TBN/Particle count will be done every 5k miles with a filter change at 15k. Part of the theory is that the less particles/contamination floating around in the oil, the less the add pack depletes neutralizing them. The test is being performed on 4 Ford 4.6 liter engines and 3 Ford 3.6 liter engines and a lone GM 5.7 liter.
Will post the results.
Originally Posted By: 03cvpi
I'm doing a particulate test on these filters right now. But it will be several months before they finish. A UOA/TBN/Particle count will be done every 5k miles with a filter change at 15k. Part of the theory is that the less particles/contamination floating around in the oil, the less the add pack depletes neutralizing them. The test is being performed on 4 Ford 4.6 liter engines and 3 Ford 3.6 liter engines and a lone GM 5.7 liter.
Will post the results.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
That part I don't get, what could you possibly see in a UOA? Any reputable filter is going to be filtering quite well at the end of the OCI, and besides how many particles are floating around in the oil anyway? Regardless of the efficiency, in a multi-pass environment all particles within the (ever increasing) capability of the filter will be captured.
Just what exactly would you see in a UOA that would indicate a difference between a normal filter and this one? I can't imagine any test outside of a standard laboratory filtering test that would show any difference unless there was some sort of catastrophic failure of the element.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
I agree with you both, you will see a big difference with a 2 filter bypass installation as used on many trucks, but in this case the wear metals will not change in comparison with other brands and the only other indicator, the insolubles (General dirt) would only show a difference if the pressure relief valve stuck open after a cold start, or the media developed a big split!
There is a case with some truck diesels that do not contaminate the oil much for extending the OCI by changing the filter before the oil if an oil lab says a sample shows the oil is still in good form, BUT the operator says the oil filter has reached its max change interval.
With normal smaller truck or car engines, it's more likely that the oil will need changing before the filter.
That part I don't get, what could you possibly see in a UOA? Any reputable filter is going to be filtering quite well at the end of the OCI, and besides how many particles are floating around in the oil anyway? Regardless of the efficiency, in a multi-pass environment all particles within the (ever increasing) capability of the filter will be captured.
Just what exactly would you see in a UOA that would indicate a difference between a normal filter and this one? I can't imagine any test outside of a standard laboratory filtering test that would show any difference unless there was some sort of catastrophic failure of the element.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
I agree with you both, you will see a big difference with a 2 filter bypass installation as used on many trucks, but in this case the wear metals will not change in comparison with other brands and the only other indicator, the insolubles (General dirt) would only show a difference if the pressure relief valve stuck open after a cold start, or the media developed a big split!
There is a case with some truck diesels that do not contaminate the oil much for extending the OCI by changing the filter before the oil if an oil lab says a sample shows the oil is still in good form, BUT the operator says the oil filter has reached its max change interval.
With normal smaller truck or car engines, it's more likely that the oil will need changing before the filter.
For what one of these puppies would cost, they should be a miracle in filtering efficiency.
They really aren't.
Still, if you have the itch, scratch it and run some of these.
There will be no way of actually measuring any reduction in particle levels in the oil, though.
They really aren't.
Still, if you have the itch, scratch it and run some of these.
There will be no way of actually measuring any reduction in particle levels in the oil, though.
Originally Posted By: Mark_Walk
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Exactly....are they implying the filter replenishes the add pack?
DBmasters has already done the 30K oil test with published UOA's and it works as claimed. He has a direct injection Mazda which is hard on oil.
The "implication" isn't that the bypass replenished anything but that that the ultra fine filtration stops the add pack from depleting.
They have 2 pack sales that bring the cost down down comparable to other high end filters. If you buy 1 at a time its high priced.
Personally I don't care about a few bucks myself but some guys here will buy fiji water/starbucks coffee - then complain about filter prices.
No other filter on this forum has matched the 30K test DB master published - if one has I'd like to see it.
UD
Originally Posted By: Donald
I have tried one and say no difference in the UOA. So a good filter but I would not believe their website where they say you can run long OCIs by just changing your Microgreen filter a few times during the OCI.
Exactly....are they implying the filter replenishes the add pack?
DBmasters has already done the 30K oil test with published UOA's and it works as claimed. He has a direct injection Mazda which is hard on oil.
The "implication" isn't that the bypass replenished anything but that that the ultra fine filtration stops the add pack from depleting.
They have 2 pack sales that bring the cost down down comparable to other high end filters. If you buy 1 at a time its high priced.
Personally I don't care about a few bucks myself but some guys here will buy fiji water/starbucks coffee - then complain about filter prices.
No other filter on this forum has matched the 30K test DB master published - if one has I'd like to see it.
UD
Originally Posted By: Guitarman200806
I've seen these filters around this forum lately and would like to try them. I'm familiar with bypass filters, but apparently these can serve a similar purpose without the external filtration setup? I have a '96 miata and an '07 Civic Si I'd like to try them on. These cars are driven hard/redlined daily (if it matters), and the oil is changed frequently only on the miata. The civic usually has at least 8k mile+ oci's. Both cars get regular UOA. I have always used Amsoil in both cars. Any reason not to try the filters in these applications?
I can't think of a reason why not. Your a perfect candidate for the next 30k mile oci challenge
I've seen these filters around this forum lately and would like to try them. I'm familiar with bypass filters, but apparently these can serve a similar purpose without the external filtration setup? I have a '96 miata and an '07 Civic Si I'd like to try them on. These cars are driven hard/redlined daily (if it matters), and the oil is changed frequently only on the miata. The civic usually has at least 8k mile+ oci's. Both cars get regular UOA. I have always used Amsoil in both cars. Any reason not to try the filters in these applications?
I can't think of a reason why not. Your a perfect candidate for the next 30k mile oci challenge
If you buy a two pack during on of their sales they are less expensive than Ultras. Three MG's and 5.5 total quarts of oil and I go nearly two years between OC's. Good enough for me.
And, yes, it is possible one could do the same thing with other filters. Put your money where your mouth is and do it.
And, yes, it is possible one could do the same thing with other filters. Put your money where your mouth is and do it.
As for the number of passes, this is a real world test. Barring catastrophic mechanical or physical damage all test vehicles will be used in normal service throughout the test. Average mileage is 38k per year. UOA's have been done on all the test vehicles a number of times before these where selected for the filter testing, we have a baseline for each vehicle.
Veh#1 4.6 liter - MC filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter for 15k
Veh#2 4.6 liter - Green filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter for 15k
Veh#3 4.6 liter - Green filter & Mobil 1 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter for 15k
Veh#4 4.6 liter - MC filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter changed every 5k (Control)
Veh#5 3.6 liter - MC filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter changed every 5k (Control)
Veh#6 3.6 liter - Green Filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - oil & filter 15k
Veh#7 3.6 liter - Green filter & Mobil 1 5w20 - UOA every 5k - oil & filter 15k
Veh@8 5.7 liter - Green filter & Bulk 5w30 - UOA every 5k - oil & filter 15k
If TBN drops below 2 or there is a large spike in particle count between 10-20um oil will be changed.
Veh#1 4.6 liter - MC filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter for 15k
Veh#2 4.6 liter - Green filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter for 15k
Veh#3 4.6 liter - Green filter & Mobil 1 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter for 15k
Veh#4 4.6 liter - MC filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter changed every 5k (Control)
Veh#5 3.6 liter - MC filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - Oil & filter changed every 5k (Control)
Veh#6 3.6 liter - Green Filter & MC 5w20 - UOA every 5k - oil & filter 15k
Veh#7 3.6 liter - Green filter & Mobil 1 5w20 - UOA every 5k - oil & filter 15k
Veh@8 5.7 liter - Green filter & Bulk 5w30 - UOA every 5k - oil & filter 15k
If TBN drops below 2 or there is a large spike in particle count between 10-20um oil will be changed.
With my amsoil filter the particle count dropped by a factor of 25 at 15k miles, 10x at 21k, 4x at 28k.
Dave
Dave
Dropped by a factor of 25 compared to what exactly? Can you post how you made the comparison and what the numbers were?
Originally Posted By: DrDave
With my amsoil filter the particle count dropped by a factor of 25 at 15k miles, 10x at 21k, 4x at 28k.
Dave
Originally Posted By: DrDave
With my amsoil filter the particle count dropped by a factor of 25 at 15k miles, 10x at 21k, 4x at 28k.
Dave
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd contact MicroGreen and ask if they have any data of what the 'flow vs delta-p' is across the filter. If it can't take 8~10 GPM of hot oil flow before opening the bypass valve, then it's not a good application for a car driven at redline often.
The mechanical difference between the Microgreen filter and another filter is that, on the top of the cylindrical main filter, there is a sintered teflon 2 micron filter. The geometry and construction of the main filter in a Microgreen appears to be identical to that of a traditional filter. The bypass filtering is a simple add-on to the top of the main filter.
From this, I would not expect any difference in flow as a function of pressure. If anything, there would be a miniscule increase in flow for a given pressure due to the bypass filtering which is in parallel with the main filter.
I'd contact MicroGreen and ask if they have any data of what the 'flow vs delta-p' is across the filter. If it can't take 8~10 GPM of hot oil flow before opening the bypass valve, then it's not a good application for a car driven at redline often.
The mechanical difference between the Microgreen filter and another filter is that, on the top of the cylindrical main filter, there is a sintered teflon 2 micron filter. The geometry and construction of the main filter in a Microgreen appears to be identical to that of a traditional filter. The bypass filtering is a simple add-on to the top of the main filter.
From this, I would not expect any difference in flow as a function of pressure. If anything, there would be a miniscule increase in flow for a given pressure due to the bypass filtering which is in parallel with the main filter.
Originally Posted By: kohnen
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd contact MicroGreen and ask if they have any data of what the 'flow vs delta-p' is across the filter. If it can't take 8~10 GPM of hot oil flow before opening the bypass valve, then it's not a good application for a car driven at redline often.
The mechanical difference between the Microgreen filter and another filter is that, on the top of the cylindrical main filter, there is a sintered teflon 2 micron filter. The geometry and construction of the main filter in a Microgreen appears to be identical to that of a traditional filter. The bypass filtering is a simple add-on to the top of the main filter.
From this, I would not expect any difference in flow as a function of pressure. If anything, there would be a miniscule increase in flow for a given pressure due to the bypass filtering which is in parallel with the main filter.
What's the efficiency of the main media part of the MicroGreen filter? Hard to say what the flow vs delta-p performance is of the main media without asking. But I agree, if it's along the lines of most average efficiency spin-on filters it's probably a decent flower.
The 'bypass' media part of the filter shouldn't have any real influence over the total flow of the filter since the bypass section is much more restrictive and will flow magnitudes less than the main media will.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd contact MicroGreen and ask if they have any data of what the 'flow vs delta-p' is across the filter. If it can't take 8~10 GPM of hot oil flow before opening the bypass valve, then it's not a good application for a car driven at redline often.
The mechanical difference between the Microgreen filter and another filter is that, on the top of the cylindrical main filter, there is a sintered teflon 2 micron filter. The geometry and construction of the main filter in a Microgreen appears to be identical to that of a traditional filter. The bypass filtering is a simple add-on to the top of the main filter.
From this, I would not expect any difference in flow as a function of pressure. If anything, there would be a miniscule increase in flow for a given pressure due to the bypass filtering which is in parallel with the main filter.
What's the efficiency of the main media part of the MicroGreen filter? Hard to say what the flow vs delta-p performance is of the main media without asking. But I agree, if it's along the lines of most average efficiency spin-on filters it's probably a decent flower.
The 'bypass' media part of the filter shouldn't have any real influence over the total flow of the filter since the bypass section is much more restrictive and will flow magnitudes less than the main media will.
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