Should I stop getting oil changes?

[slickoil]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by Tman220
If it were my car I would just do the filter changes. We have seen from many UOA's on this site that frequent top offs keeps the oil and engine happy. As you stated you are changing out the entire sump within 4600 miles



Correct..... I'd filter swap every 10,000 miles and just always keep it topped off.



Even 10K filter changes are a bit overkill here but it is a easy number to remember try a heavier grade to see if this helps.


I'm tempted to try a heavier grade. From what I've read so far, some people on PriusChat think it's no problem, and others strongly recommend against it. I don't want to mess up the vehicle, as it was a big investment for me. I've called a few Prius mechanics and I've received varying opinions as well.

 

[slickoil]

Originally Posted by marc1
Originally Posted by slickoil

Should I stop bringing her in for oil changes, and just change the oil filter every 10K miles?

I need the Prius to last, so I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize her health and longevity.


If I were in your situation, yes I would do precisely that (filter only every 10k).

You have another post about brand of top up oil, it is a moot point with that level of oil consumption and you should also be using the lowest cost approved oil available.

I know manufacturers like to tout the 1qt./1000miles as a benchmark for warranty work but that is not a healthy engine at that level of consumption regardless I certainly understand and respect your desire to keep it going. Just don't spend wasteful money on expensive oil / oil changes etc.


Thanks for the tips and info (and understanding!). I know very little about engines except the very basics of how they work. One thing I've noticed, is that every time I check the oil, it is pretty dark (and I'm filling it with 5W20 right now). Not black. Not grimy. Not gritty. Just dark, like a cup of coffee without cream. Given that I'm adding so much clean oil, I'm surprised how dark it is on the dipstick. Any ideas?

 

[marc1]

Originally Posted by slickoil
Given that I'm adding so much clean oil, I'm surprised how dark it is on the dipstick. Any ideas?


That, coupled with your high consumption, is a strong case for worn out piston rings. The oil control ring is letting oil into your combustion chamber and your top combustion sealing rings are letting combustion gases into the crankcase (commonly called blowby) which will darken oil quickly. This is not worth repairing if the vehicle runs well, still gets reasonable fuel economy and the oil consumption stays affordable.

 

[slickoil]

Originally Posted by marc1
Originally Posted by slickoil
Given that I'm adding so much clean oil, I'm surprised how dark it is on the dipstick. Any ideas?


That, coupled with your high consumption, is a strong case for worn out piston rings. The oil control ring is letting oil into your combustion chamber and your top combustion sealing rings are letting combustion gases into the crankcase (commonly called blowby) which will darken oil quickly. This is not worth repairing if the vehicle runs well, still gets reasonable fuel economy and the oil consumption stays affordable.


Thank you for your analysis. I very much appreciate it.

Does the darkness of the oil mean anything as far as whether or not to get oil changes?

For example, the Prius is now at 6.4K miles since the last oil change with Mobil 1 5w20. Technically, according to the Toyota owner's manual, that's 1.4K miles past the recommended oil change interval for 5w20 (they recommend 5K for 5w20 and 10K for 0w20). But since that oil change, I have topped off with 6.5qts of oil, and it's about a qt low right now (by measuring the distance on the dipstick between the bottom and top fill dots).

So the decision is whether or not to get a full oil change, or just add a quart now, and continue doing so every month (remembering to have the filter replaced every ?? miles). Given how dark the oil is now (coffee dark), what do you think is the best way to proceed?

I'm definitely willing to pay extra to get oil changes if they are needed, as they are very cheap compared to the cost of a new vehicle. At the same time, no one likes to waste time and money.

 

[Bailes1992]

I'd be buying the cheapest branded dino *w30 or *w40 HDEO I could find and putting that in.

Get a quality synthetic oil filter and change it every 15k-20k and don't bother changing the oil.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by slickoil
I have a 2010 Toyota Prius that burns about 1qt/1000 miles, so I need to top her off with a full quart frequently (about once per month).

Since she only hold 4.6qts of oil, am I effectively doing an oil change every 4,600 miles? Or does it not work that way?

Should I stop bringing her in for oil changes, and just change the oil filter every 10K miles?

I need the Prius to last, so I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize her health and longevity.


Change the oil 8-9K. You should remove what gathers near the bottom of the oil pan on occasion.
Just changing the oil filter will not get that buildup removed.
You are only talking an extra 40-50 dollars and your Prius will thank you in the long run.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted by slickoil
Originally Posted by kschachn
Has it always burned that much oil? My old Sienna is nowhere near that amount.


I don't think so, but I'm not positive. I have owned the Prius for about 4-5 years. It had about 105K on it when I bought it (it now has about 145K). I paid to have it inspected by Toyota before buying it from a private party, and Toyota didn't find anything wrong except the cabin air filter being dirty. I have had mechanics perform regular oil changes based on mileage or time, whichever came first.

I didn't start checking and logging the oil level every few weeks until about a year and a half ago when the engine light suddenly turned on. I had gotten the oil changed about 3-4K miles earlier (I would have to look at my records for the exact amount), so I was surprised that the engine oil was a couple quarts low. Since then, I have monitored it like a hawk, and the burn is fairly consistent at about 1qt/1000mi. Nothing seems to have changed. The vehicle drives flawlessly.

I do only get about 46.5mpg, which is maybe 1-3mpg low for a 2010 Prius. On the other hand, I have the rare sunroof model, which is a touch less aerodynamic because it doesn't have the designed-by-Porsche roof (it has solar panels instead, which is super cool).



I would get a bottle of liqui moly motor oil saver and add that to the crankcase to try and reduce the oil consumption. You can get it at Napa in Canada. Then I would avoid the full oil change and do like you said just top up and change the filter. I would also go for a thicker high mileage oil from now on.

 

[Matagonka]

Get ready for new cat converters.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by slickoil


When you change the filter without draining the oil first, does oil flow everywhere?


Nope, just the usual amount of oil will come out when changing the filter (the oil that was in the passages near the filter mount), but the majority of the oil will stay in the oil pan.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted by slickoil
I have a 2010 Toyota Prius that burns about 1qt/1000 miles, so I need to top her off with a full quart frequently (about once per month).

Since she only hold 4.6qts of oil, am I effectively doing an oil change every 4,600 miles? Or does it not work that way?

Should I stop bringing her in for oil changes, and just change the oil filter every 10K miles?

I need the Prius to last, so I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize her health and longevity.


I would try and resolve the burning oil issue. I might get worse. Compression test? Leak down test? Blue smoke at startup = valve stem seals. Otherwise its crudded up rings. (Could be very worn bearings, but unlikely).

 

[oghl]

If you are considering going one grade higher, then I would suggest topping up with mobil1 0w40. This way you are mixing in higher viscosity oil and if thicker oil helps, it should start slowing down the rate of consumption. Going to a 30 grade or even 40 grade isn't harmful to anything other than a bit of fuel consumption increase. 0w40 is supposed to be significantly better than their 5w20, according to others in this forum.

Don't let it get one quart low. Top up continuously to keep it near the top of the dipstick if you are able to. Keep track of how much 0w40 you are adding to get a rough sense of how much of it is helpful/starting to be helpful.

Actually you can also just change it all to 0w40 to see what the effect is. This is what I personally would do. But I suspect you are uneasy going to a 40 grade entirely, which is way I am only suggesting topping up.

The catalytic converter and sensors in the exhaust system are also at risk, and could cost you if they go bad. Reduce oil consumption quickly to help extend their service life.

I would also continue to change the oil and oil filter. If you have dark oil, maybe you are getting contamination which needs to be taken out of the crankcase periodically. Even a good filter can only do so much

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Yeah probably pointless to do oil changes, but with that kind of oil burn, you best be saving for a new cat and new oxygen sensors. And the inevitable engine rebuild or complete replacement if that excessive burn rate can't be arrested/rectified.


This. You are going to have to pay for the consumption in some form:
1) you pay for all the top off oil if you continue with oil changes and repairs to the cat and oxygen sensors (they will go bad if burning that much oil)
2) you pay to fix the consumption issue and get back to regular oil changes

Might be worth the time to analyze the cost of cats/oxygen sensors vs repairing consumption.

 

[krismoriah72]

Its a known issue.

https://www.toyoheadquarters.com/th...e-oil-consumption-on-2zr-fxe-engine.820/

 

[ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
I'd be buying the cheapest branded dino *w30 or *w40 HDEO I could find and putting that in.

Get a quality synthetic oil filter and change it every 15k-20k and don't bother changing the oil.


^^^^^This I agree! ^^^^^. Get the lowest NOACK you can find. Seems like Mobil 1 in 5-20 would have a good low NOACK. Amsoils' 5-20 SS is 5.8. A 0-40 would be much worse due to the VI used. Like Bailes said above^^^^.

 

[PeterPolyol]

How much does all this extra engine oil cost Toyota owners anyway? I'm reading posts like OPs and all these guys with Corollas burning a quart every 1K for hundreds of thousands of miles... at what point does it cease to make any economic, environmental or any other sense to do this? Seems like a really costly and annoying way to get bragging rights of dragging your beater Toyota out to 300K lol


slickoil, I'd absolutely stop changing the oil! Forget about chasing specs!! Pearls before swine tbh.... That consumption is ridiculous, if it were me that vehicle would be on craigslist faster than it can consume the whole crankcase fill

 

[slickoil]

Originally Posted by ridgerunner
Originally Posted by Bailes1992
I'd be buying the cheapest branded dino *w30 or *w40 HDEO I could find and putting that in.

Get a quality synthetic oil filter and change it every 15k-20k and don't bother changing the oil.


^^^^^This I agree! ^^^^^. Get the lowest NOACK you can find. Seems like Mobil 1 in 5-20 would have a good low NOACK. Amsoils' 5-20 SS is 5.8. A 0-40 would be much worse due to the VI used. Like Bailes said above^^^^.


To someone (like me) who doesn't know much about oil, a dino *w30 or *w40 HDEO seems like just about the opposite of what Toyota recommends. It's switching from full synthetic to full dino. It's switching viscosity from 0w20 to *w30 or *w40. And it's switching to an HDEO, which from what I read is a heavy duty oil designed for big diesel engines. What will the effect on the Prius engine be with such a substantially different oil?

 

[slickoil]

Originally Posted by krismoriah72
Its a known issue.

https://www.toyoheadquarters.com/th...e-oil-consumption-on-2zr-fxe-engine.820/



Thank you for the link!

Posts like this one on ToyoHeadquarters that talk about damaging the engine with a heavier weight oil concern me.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by slickoil
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
Its a known issue.
...
Posts like this one on ToyoHeadquarters that talk about damaging the engine with a heavier weight oil concern me.
Yes, it's a well-known issue, similar to the story with oil-guzzling 2007-10 Camrys, et al.

There's a TSB for dealers to replace the defective rings, possibly "free," IF you can prove to their satisfaction that oil consumption exceeds a specified limit (which isn't 800 miles/quart).

Thicker oil is unlikely to do damage. Whether it reduces oil consumption enough to compensate for the inevitably increased fuel consumption, you could experiment to find out.

Mine seems unaffected so far. In fact, its oil consumption is amazingly low, and the oil is slower to darken than in any other engine I've known.

 

[slickoil]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by slickoil
Originally Posted by krismoriah72
Its a known issue.
...
Posts like this one on ToyoHeadquarters that talk about damaging the engine with a heavier weight oil concern me.
Yes, it's a well-known issue, similar to the story with oil-guzzling 2007-10 Camrys, et al.

There's a TSB for dealers to replace the defective rings, possibly "free," IF you can prove to their satisfaction that oil consumption exceeds a specified limit (which isn't 800 miles/quart).



Do you know what the specified limit actually is?

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by slickoil
Do you know what the specified limit actually is?
I don't remember for certain. 1000 or 1200 mpq, I think. You can find the TSB if you search the internet.

That's better than the limit specified in my owner's manual, an even more absurd 600 mpq (obviously translated from 1000 km/liter, which would be about the same).