Should I say something or not? Potential alcoholic ...
- Thread starter Chris142
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Funny this thread popped up today. I was woken up at 5:00 am by a drunk teenager (who I don't know) knocking on my door asking if I could call his mom to come get him. It was sad to see someone that age doing that to themselves but I was glad he got a ride home instead of driving himself or dying of hypothermia. I invited him in to wait in the warmth and talked with him until his mom came to get him. It was sad to see someone so depressed that all he wants to do is get too drunk to remember. I just hope he (and the OPs coworker) gets help in time.
Thirty beer or a half gallon of whiskey a day is well beyond the amount of alcohol that can produce cirrhosis. [Though seems it doesn't always happen.] So there is that.
I'm not sure talking to him "out of the blue" would lead anywhere. But an opportunity may come up. The places alcohol causes trouble are:
The other thing is sometimes people say things like - "maybe I'm drinking too much", "all this booze can't be good for me", and things like that. The normal reaction is to let it pass. But that may be the opportunity to have the talk.
But then what do I know? My brother died largely of excessive drinking. He would ask me what was wrong with him (I'm a physician) and I'd say "what about the drinking?" And he'd say "No really, what do you think is wrong with me?" He wasn't listening. Alcoholism is a fatal illness and it killed him.
On the other hand, I had a heart to heart talk with a cousin who was hospitalized with liver failure. I visited him and we had the talk. He stopped drinking and lived without alcohol for another 20+ years. He never said anything to me, but he told others that our discussion had saved his life. So it works if someone is willing to listen. And sometimes you catch that moment.
I'm not sure talking to him "out of the blue" would lead anywhere. But an opportunity may come up. The places alcohol causes trouble are:
- legal (DUI, assault charge, mystery dents in the car),
- financial (broke, borrowing a few bucks)
- interpersonal (spouse complaining, separation, friends dropping off),
- health (mystery falls, "don't feel good", vomiting, "black outs"), and
- work (often late, missing days, poor work quality, smelling of booze at work).
The other thing is sometimes people say things like - "maybe I'm drinking too much", "all this booze can't be good for me", and things like that. The normal reaction is to let it pass. But that may be the opportunity to have the talk.
But then what do I know? My brother died largely of excessive drinking. He would ask me what was wrong with him (I'm a physician) and I'd say "what about the drinking?" And he'd say "No really, what do you think is wrong with me?" He wasn't listening. Alcoholism is a fatal illness and it killed him.
On the other hand, I had a heart to heart talk with a cousin who was hospitalized with liver failure. I visited him and we had the talk. He stopped drinking and lived without alcohol for another 20+ years. He never said anything to me, but he told others that our discussion had saved his life. So it works if someone is willing to listen. And sometimes you catch that moment.
We keep Crown and ginger,lemon,honey, and black tea for that very thing.
That's so awesome
. I quit AA but I have seen many come in and they are just rock bottom and completely beat. Now it's a Sam Adam's or two, big dinner 🍽 and asleep by the time news is coming on at 10p.Some people can tolerate excessive alcohol better than others. Friend of mine wasn't one of those, he let drinking get out of hand. Good guy and friends since preschool, but I could see the shaking and mannerisms going downhill. He was beginning to get wet brain, he found that in treatment. Doing better, occasionally has a hickup. Never married or kids, but lots of family near to help, along with me but I don't live close. Hard deal, didn't think he would make it much longer.
Like with any addiction people won’t stop until they’re ready to charge. Unfortunately you’d likely be wasting your time and maybe even damaging the friendship.
I know chris142 lives in California but California is a will to work state. An employer can terminate you there like they can in any other state. Chris142’s employer should use an HR service or HR manager if they aren’t already unless the owner really know what he/she’s doing. The employee needs terminated. However, alcoholism is protected by the ADA. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t be terminated. This is where using an HR service comes in. Otherwise, he is a huge liability for the business.
Copy and paste Alcoholism is protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), which means you can't be fired for disclosing alcohol issues or going to treatment to get help. On the other hand, you can very easily get fired if alcohol impairment interferes with your job performance or causes safety issues in the workplace.
I think almost everyone on this board knows someone who has a severe drinking problem. I know some people who can drink way over their limit and their body is so accustomed to it you can't even tell. Others are sloppy drunks with slurred speech. For some reason most of them seem to live fairly long lives however they do not know what it's like to feel good. As far as the OP is concerned it will not do any good to say anything to this person because he already knows he has a drinking problem. It's good you care about him and that's about all you can do.
He knows but obviously there's an underlying issue which he has been unable to deal with.
This is along the lines of what I was going to bring up. Their boss has to be aware of what's going on. I worked with a guy many years ago that picked up a 12-pack on the way home after work every day. He functioned fine at work but you could smell the beer/alcohol on him, in his sweat, basically.
As the boss, I've had a few of these types show up in our flight department. It's not clear when they don't have any DUI's and clearly perform well on a daily basis. But eventually, they can't control it and show up seriously hung over, reeking of alcohol, or even still drunk. They get fired on the spot. I recently saw one of the guys I fired 15 years ago. He could no longer afford alcohol when he had no money. Probably saved his life.
I do know that "George" was talked to many times without results prior to meeting him. I was glad to see him, and that he was still alive. I remain convinced that you do that person no favors by keeping him employed.
I do know that "George" was talked to many times without results prior to meeting him. I was glad to see him, and that he was still alive. I remain convinced that you do that person no favors by keeping him employed.
I'm the guy (a Specialist Occupational Physician) the HR department would send an employee to. What I asked HR to provide was a letter (copied to the employee) reporting all of the observed problems (making no attempt at diagnosis) - times late, missed days, deteriorating work performance, objectionable behavior, falls at work, odour of alcohol at work, slurred speech, etc. In many cases I helped the HR department write the letter.
Sometimes the employee would have been terminated for cause with the admonition that they (the employer) might reconsider if they (the worker) agreed to see me and complied fully with my recommendations. Suspended for cause was good too.
I would see the employee and say something like - "From the description in this letter it sounds like you might have a drinking problem. I'll ask you a few standardized questions and have you complete a standard questionnaire." Then a full medical review and the evidence from the standardized questions would often lead to a firm diagnosis.
With a diagnosis in hand I would recommend a treatment plan which included a written contract for what the employee agreed to do. The terms of the contract were non negotiable. "If you agree to do all of this, and you do all of this you are in compliance. If you don't, you aren't and that's what my report will say."
At this point it must be apparent to the employee that I'm "the meanest SOB in the valley". There will be no room for excuses, partial compliance, or anything like that. Alcoholics are used to manipulating people and I'm not going to be manipulated.
I won't tell you all of the terms of the contract but it included abstinence, participation in AA, and (where there was one) an employee assistance program. I would frequently take the employee "off work for medical reasons" at that point (if they were still employed) for a few days to get things organized but in addition because the risk of them getting fired at that point was too great.
So the results:
a family doctor making a diagnosis of alcoholism and recommending treatment - about 10% success
a workplace occupational medicine program making a diagnosis of alcoholism and recommending treatment - between 65 and 75% success*
*Success in a workplace program being defined as still employed and with no apparent workplace problems after 10 years. And that's pretty good going.
That or something tragic will happen and it will stop it. I hope it doesn't come down to this.
Why is this?
In my case I had to decide alcohol was hurting more than it was helping. By the time I was in my early-mid 20's I was often going to a bar about 1/2 mile from where I worked to get a couple beers during my 20 minute lunch break. I'd drive to the bar get the beer and drink them on the way back to work. I stopping nearly every afternoon on the way home from work to get a 12 pack. If I ran out of beer before bedtime I always had hard liquor in the cabinet. On weekends if I didn't have to work I'd sometimes drink close to or maybe a case a day. Several friends talked to me about my drinking and it didn't bother me, whether it had any influence on my stopping or not I'm not sure. One day I just decided enough was enough.
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