Should gas stations be mandated to have chargers as well?

[JeffKeryk]

I was referring to your hypothetical "parking lot", keep up. I have no doubt that some have retrofitted existing stuff (where possible) is one thing, a parking lot is another.

Actually, you will find Tesla Superchargers and other brands in parking lots all over the place around here. Just had a set of 8 250kW Superchargers installed at the local Whole Foods Market.

I'm not sure where else makes as much sense. Here I am up in Petaluma at a nice newer shopping center.

 

[y_p_w]

Actually, you will find Tesla Superchargers and other brands in parking lots all over the place around here. Just had a set of 8 250kW Superchargers installed at the local Whole Foods Market.

I'm not sure where else makes as much sense. Here I am up in Petaluma at a nice newer shopping center.
View attachment 200362

The reference was to someone else mentioning electricity going to older light poles running high-pressure sodium lamps but then being retrofitted for LEDs. I'm thinking the available power from that wouldn't be enough. Obviously DC fast charging is going to require large distribution boxes. There's got to be some sort of permitting requirements about the safety of electrical connections that wouldn't just allow tapping into the same power almost ad hoc. Also - I don't believe that kind of lighting that's being replaced uses that much electricity, so just replacing that with LEDs probably wouldn't make that much difference. In addition, I think that kind of lighting only needs maybe 100V.

Level 2 is obviously a lot easier, but I don't believe that existing lighting infrastructure would be enough. But I've seen plenty of Level 2 charging setups, so it's obviously not as difficult to place as something like a Tesla Supercharger. Even the 72 kW versions have massive distribution boxes to the side.

 

[y_p_w]

Actually, you will find Tesla Superchargers and other brands in parking lots all over the place around here. Just had a set of 8 250kW Superchargers installed at the local Whole Foods Market.

I'm not sure where else makes as much sense. Here I am up in Petaluma at a nice newer shopping center.
View attachment 200362

For a while I thought maybe I’d been there, but when we had a Model S P100D for a day that was in Rohnert Park. We didn’t strictly need to charge, but that was when we were new to all this and had range anxiety.

They also have pull in Superchargers on the left side. I’ve seen them before, but typically just one here or there and not a row of them.

 

[JeffKeryk]

For a while I thought maybe I’d been there, but when we had a Model S P100D for a day that was in Rohnert Park. We didn’t strictly need to charge, but that was when we were new to all this and had range anxiety.

They also have pull in Superchargers on the left side. I’ve seen them before, but typically just one here or there and not a row of them.

East Washington Shopping Center, Petaluma

 

[Rmay635703]

I was referring to your hypothetical "parking lot", keep up. I have no doubt that some have retrofitted existing stuff (where possible) is one thing, a parking lot is another.

The poles are centered between 4 parking spots and placed at predictable intervals. Because the employee has to provide their own EVSE. “Driving over” a gigantic cement thing is no more of an issue than having the pole there in the first place.

Each pole was originally outfitted with 2000 watts of HPS, more than enough to run L1

If the EVSE is damaged that is the employees problem. Having the cord not in a drivable section of the lot makes damage unlikely

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here’s a report for the progress or lack thereof made including Q3 2023. I guess the question should be: Are EV’s lining up at public chargers?

 

[alarmguy]

Here’s a report for the progress or lack thereof made including Q3 2023. I guess the question should be: Are EV’s lining up at public chargers?

View attachment 205624

This is extremely misleading. Its talking about market share of sales. Not the number of EVs on the road.
There are about 300,000,000 (300 million vehicles on USA roads) and out of that 300 million there are about 2 million EVs or if your number is correct 4 million..
That means we have to add 298,000,000 or 296,000,000(two hundred ninety eight million) EVs to the road before on par with the number of gasoline vehicles.
So let's knock that down to what we will experience maybe, give a reasonable number 75 million EVs on the road vs the 2 million currently?
The reason this will not be a concern is it will never happen with battery operated EVs. It's not possible to even come close to 300 or even maybe 75 million during our life time or that of anyones children in this forum. However I do think, todays EVs are primative and another technology will be found to replace the battery and right now the only technology I know that possibly can replace the battery is the fuel cell.

The novelty of EVs are wearing off and interest was never as great as media suggested. The only thing is keeping it alive is government forcing it on the automakers and taxpayer funded rebates for buyers.

 

[Johnny248]

Electric vehicles are the future. Yet ICE vehicles will be here for decades as well.

Should all gas stations be mandated to have chargers? Is having 1-2 chargers minimum reasonable?

I think so.

Nothing should be mandated when it comes to a privately owned gas station.

 

[alarmguy]

Nothing should be mandated when it comes to a privately owned gas station.

agree, it never will

 

[Snagglefoot]

This is extremely misleading. Its talking about market share of sales. Not the number of EVs on the road.
There are about 300,000,000 (300 million vehicles on USA roads) and out of that 300 million there are about 2 million EVs.
That means we have to add 298,000,000 (two hundred ninety eight million) EVs to the road before on par with the number of gasoline vehicles.
So lets knock that down to what we will experience maybe, give a reasonable number 75 million EVs on the road vs the 2 million currently?
The reason this will not be a concern is it will never happen with battery operated EVs. It's not possible to even come close to 300 or even maybe 75 million during our life time or that of anyones children in this forum. However I do think, todays EVs are primative and another technology will be found to replace the battery and right now the only technology I know that possibly can replace the battery is the fuel cell.

Depends on the expectation. A linear growth in sales results results in exponential growth in total numbers on the road. Five years ago there were 1.5 million on the road. Now there are 3 million on the road.

 

[alarmguy]

Depends on the expectation. A linear growth in sales results results in expontial growth in total numbers on the road.

I dont disagree with your formula but we already are seeing flattening of the market, slowing sales growth and excess inventory. Even backed up by Tesla on their last quarterly report. Time will tell, I just think EV current technology is too inconvenient for the wealthy and to expensive and inconvenient for the masses. We need to match the speed of filling a tank with gas.
This is not to say that I think as a second car it wouldnt be unreasonable and need to accept politics in the USA can change with a change in administrations at anytime. You can bet if the public starts getting angry, whatever will generate the most votes wins.

 

[14.1 Grms]

Depends on the expectation. A linear growth in sales results results in expontial growth in total numbers on the road. Five years ago there were 1.5 million on the road. Now there are 3.5 million on the road.

I'd argue that linear growth is unlikely when you look at the concentration of EV buyers - nearly 80% of those EV sales were on the west coast, and eventually you'll reach market saturation in those locations.

"Light truck sales represent 74% of the EV market" - I find that very strange, unless they're including fleet sales.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Seeing higher inventory on the lots does not mean lower sales. It means the manufacturers are catching up. There are over 100 models of EV’s to choose from.

 

[Snagglefoot]

I'd argue that linear growth is unlikely when you look at the concentration of EV buyers - nearly 80% of those EV sales were on the west coast, and eventually you'll reach market saturation in those locations.

"Light truck sales represent 74% of the EV market" - I find that very strange, unless they're including fleet sales.

Yes ,we need to check that number on the trucks. By the way the main stream press has adopted EV to mean any kind of electric vehicle, including fully electric, hybrids and plug in hybrids. As far as linear growth goes, that will be reported every quarter and we can watch.

 

[y_p_w]

Nothing should be mandated when it comes to a privately owned gas station.

There are tons of mandates to operate a gas station. At least in my state there's a requirement to provide pressurized air and water. In certain areas there's a requirement for bathrooms. There are emissions controls. There's a mandate for regular weights and measures inspections.

I don't necessarily buy the premise of the OP, but we don't live in a world where the government doesn't set a ton of mandates to operate certain businesses.

 

[Johnny248]

There are tons of mandates to operate a gas station. At least in my state there's a requirement to provide pressurized air and water. In certain areas there's a requirement for bathrooms. There are emissions controls. There's a mandate for regular weights and measures inspections.

I don't necessarily buy the premise of the OP, but we don't live in a world where the government doesn't set a ton of mandates to operate certain businesses.

I can understand normal requirements. Telling someone that they need to provide/sell a service is different. BTW, what is pressurized water??

 

[y_p_w]

I can understand normal requirements. Telling someone that they need to provide/sell a service is different. BTW, what is pressurized water??

It's pressurized air, then water. There was nothing wrong with the grammar there.

There's a few cities that have mandated that any new gas station is required to have a certain amount of "alternative energy", whether that's EV charging, CNG, etc.

 

[14.1 Grms]

Yes ,we need to check that number on the trucks. By the way the main stream press has adopted EV to mean any kind of electric vehicle, including fully electric, hybrids and plug in hybrids. As far as linear growth goes, that will be reported every quarter and we can watch.

In that event with EV's "definition", it makes sense as I'm assuming they're lumping hybrid CUVs in with "EV light-duty trucks".

I'm interested in EV sales in..."non-target market areas", especially once tax credit subsidies end. Places like WV, KS, ND, AR. It's very easy to own an EV in DC, Herndon, or San Francisco; not so much central WV or backwoods AR. Sales increasing in those areas, without someone else paying $7500 of the vehicle cost for the buyer, will be more indicative of deep market penetration indicative of long-term trends. I don't see that happening - at all, at any time - but it will be fun to watch.

 

[Johnny248]

It's pressurized air, then water. There was nothing wrong with the grammar there.

There's a few cities that have mandated that any new gas station is required to have a certain amount of "alternative energy", whether that's EV charging, CNG, etc.

I read that incorrectly. Sometimes it's hard to BITOG and work at the same time. I thought it was a Cali thing lol

 

[Torrid]

In that event with EV's "definition", it makes sense as I'm assuming they're lumping hybrid CUVs in with "EV light-duty trucks".

I'm interested in EV sales in..."non-target market areas", especially once tax credit subsidies end. Places like WV, KS, ND, AR. It's very easy to own an EV in DC, Herndon, or San Francisco; not so much central WV or backwoods AR. Sales increasing in those areas, without someone else paying $7500 of the vehicle cost for the buyer, will be more indicative of deep market penetration indicative of long-term trends. I don't see that happening - at all, at any time - but it will be fun to watch.

Yes. This counts as a light duty truck for fuel economy purposes. It's why the car is dying. The EPA's own standards are what are pushing people into larger/taller vehicles. It's a creation out of necessity.

This could have been a picture of a Rav4 or any other CUV. There may be some variations that do not qualify as a light truck by the EPA, but apparently AWD could be a differentiating factor to push it into the light truck category. It may not even be that the vehicle doesn't qualify as a light truck in 2wd, but I have read that manufacturers have some leeway to claim one category or another. It may be beneficial if the fuel economy is good enough that they'd want just the 2wd variant to be classified as a car.

Crossover utility vehicles blur distinction between passenger cars and light trucks - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov