Right, I'll sit stuck in my car in snow and ponder how lucky I am.
Shot down at tire shop due to dumb rules
- Thread starter Audi Junkie
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Right, I'll sit stuck in my car in snow and ponder how lucky I am.
Hey I was naive (well dumb & stupid in college) once and ran Pirelli winters on front and Pirelli P6's on the back on 88 Jetta GLI 16V. I found my back end would sway back/forth if got going to fast on wintery roads. During that time period I believe I did at least 4-5 sets on separate occasions of full 360 spins luckily never hurting anyone. Never got stuck except in a snow bank after a spin.
Since then I have used some winter tires and mostly all-seasons always matched and never had a spin out.
Right, I'll sit stuck in my car in snow and ponder how lucky I am.
Hey I was naive (well dumb & stupid in college) once and ran Pirelli winters on front and Pirelli P6's on the back on 88 Jetta GLI 16V. I found my back end would sway back/forth if got going to fast on wintery roads. During that time period I believe I did at least 4-5 sets on separate occasions of full 360 spins luckily never hurting anyone. Never got stuck except in a snow bank after a spin.
Since then I have used some winter tires and mostly all-seasons always matched and never had a spin out.
anyone that uses costco and walmart for tires;
? why use a GROCERY STORE for your tires?!? buy tires from a TIRE STORE. as for the whole low cost/good deal pinkydinky, well, you get what you pay for. for me, my local tire guy (10th st tire in Easton, PA) is local, fast, has great prices (low overhead, only 2 employees)last time he was CHEAPER than tire rack, and I don't deal w/ any of that 'liability issues' dingus. but I don't buy roasted chickens from him either (THAT'S what sam's club is for).
Last edited:
I would never install tires such that the rear tires have substantially less tread depth or snow traction.
It's illegal in some areas of Canada to run studded tires on the front only. You can legally run them on the back only though.
It's illegal in some areas of Canada to run studded tires on the front only. You can legally run them on the back only though.
Originally Posted By: rpn453
I would never install tires such that the rear tires have substantially less tread depth or snow traction.
It's illegal in some areas of Canada to run studded tires on the front only. You can legally run them on the back only though.
Might be considered proof that Canada's a bit bassakwerds
Bob
I would never install tires such that the rear tires have substantially less tread depth or snow traction.
It's illegal in some areas of Canada to run studded tires on the front only. You can legally run them on the back only though.
Might be considered proof that Canada's a bit bassakwerds
Bob
Last edited:
I just bring tires and wheels to tire places and have them mounted and balanced. As I own a jack and a torque wrench (don't you guys?), the tire dudes don't need to know how I'll be using them.
- Scott
- Scott
Originally Posted By: mpvue
anyone that uses costco and walmart for tires;
? why use a GROCERY STORE for your tires?!? buy tires from a TIRE STORE. as for the whole low cost/good deal pinkydinky, well, you get what you pay for. for me, my local tire guy (10th st tire in Easton, PA) is local, fast, has great prices (low overhead, only 2 employees)last time he was CHEAPER than tire rack, and I don't deal w/ any of that 'liability issues' dingus. but I don't buy roasted chickens from him either (THAT'S what sam's club is for).
Well, let's see. I bought my Michelin LTX tires from Sam's Club. I did my own research ahead of time, bought the proper tire for my truck in the correct size and load rating, had zero issues in getting them installed at Sam's (quick service with no damage to my rims or truck), and in addition to getting a great deal (less than any of the online places)... was able to get a $60 rebate from Michelin as well.
Yep. This is exactly what Sam's Club is for. The right product at the right price. Thanks Sam's!
anyone that uses costco and walmart for tires;
Well, let's see. I bought my Michelin LTX tires from Sam's Club. I did my own research ahead of time, bought the proper tire for my truck in the correct size and load rating, had zero issues in getting them installed at Sam's (quick service with no damage to my rims or truck), and in addition to getting a great deal (less than any of the online places)... was able to get a $60 rebate from Michelin as well.
Yep. This is exactly what Sam's Club is for. The right product at the right price. Thanks Sam's!
The local Honda-multi dealership, where I have an Ok reputation, has a deal with the mid-size tire chain that is right next door. They said I could just ask for what I want and tell them to send it over to the dealer in time for my appt. 4 mt&bal is only $40 there. I suppose the tire chain (Jack Williams) could make me a good deal on the tires since there won't be a quota on profit if they aren't getting my car into their bay. Every shop is different, some won't even sell you tires otc.
fwiw, my MiL has a junker Ford minivan. BiL took it to the closeby dealer for a freshening. It came out with new General Altimax, on the *front*. Also, owners manuals that I am familiar with says to put the new tires up front.
Why not four of the same tire?
Have one set of "3 season" or summer tire and a set of snows.
Have one set of "3 season" or summer tire and a set of snows.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Am I the only one that feels safer with an oversteering car than an understeering car? I would rather slide any day over the front end just plowing straight ahead.
I'm with you. BTW - don't just love steering the GN's with your right foot - like having 4wheel steering..
Am I the only one that feels safer with an oversteering car than an understeering car? I would rather slide any day over the front end just plowing straight ahead.
I'm with you. BTW - don't just love steering the GN's with your right foot - like having 4wheel steering..
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Am I the only one that feels safer with an oversteering car than an understeering car? I would rather slide any day over the front end just plowing straight ahead.
You can't equate predictable oversteer that you can control with a car instantly swapping ends.
Try this: halfway through an icy corner, yank the e-brake hard and leave it on to simulate totally losing grip in the back end while the front stays planted. If that was fun (and it certainly can be for a teenager at low speeds), you can increase the speed. Let me know when you're skilled enough that you're safely doing it on ice at highway speed amongst traffic.
Am I the only one that feels safer with an oversteering car than an understeering car? I would rather slide any day over the front end just plowing straight ahead.
You can't equate predictable oversteer that you can control with a car instantly swapping ends.
Try this: halfway through an icy corner, yank the e-brake hard and leave it on to simulate totally losing grip in the back end while the front stays planted. If that was fun (and it certainly can be for a teenager at low speeds), you can increase the speed. Let me know when you're skilled enough that you're safely doing it on ice at highway speed amongst traffic.
I understand the point you're trying to make but still, the other scenario is the front just plowing straight ahead and there's not much you can do about it. If it oversteers, a good driver has a chance of controlling it.
Neither situation is safe but I guess I grew up driving sideways more than straight (blame it on the redneck town and the GN) and I feel very comfortable going sideways. Sometimes it's not predictable. I went for a quick WOT run late at night and hit a strip of water running across the road from some sprinklers at 70mph. The next thing I knew I had the steering in full lock going down a narrow road. Still have never spun and don't intend to. Even when it's unpredictable the driver can catch the tail, that's not the problem. It's that they fail to lead the car a little and straighten the wheel quick enough when the rear straightens.
Neither situation is safe but I guess I grew up driving sideways more than straight (blame it on the redneck town and the GN) and I feel very comfortable going sideways. Sometimes it's not predictable. I went for a quick WOT run late at night and hit a strip of water running across the road from some sprinklers at 70mph. The next thing I knew I had the steering in full lock going down a narrow road. Still have never spun and don't intend to. Even when it's unpredictable the driver can catch the tail, that's not the problem. It's that they fail to lead the car a little and straighten the wheel quick enough when the rear straightens.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I understand the point you're trying to make but still, the other scenario is the front just plowing straight ahead and there's not much you can do about it. If it oversteers, a good driver has a chance of controlling it.
Neither situation is safe but I guess I grew up driving sideways more than straight (blame it on the redneck town and the GN) and I feel very comfortable going sideways. Sometimes it's not predictable. I went for a quick WOT run late at night and hit a strip of water running across the road from some sprinklers at 70mph. The next thing I knew I had the steering in full lock going down a narrow road. Still have never spun and don't intend to. Even when it's unpredictable the driver can catch the tail, that's not the problem. It's that they fail to lead the car a little and straighten the wheel quick enough when the rear straightens.
Just the good old boys...never meaning no harm....reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard!
I understand the point you're trying to make but still, the other scenario is the front just plowing straight ahead and there's not much you can do about it. If it oversteers, a good driver has a chance of controlling it.
Neither situation is safe but I guess I grew up driving sideways more than straight (blame it on the redneck town and the GN) and I feel very comfortable going sideways. Sometimes it's not predictable. I went for a quick WOT run late at night and hit a strip of water running across the road from some sprinklers at 70mph. The next thing I knew I had the steering in full lock going down a narrow road. Still have never spun and don't intend to. Even when it's unpredictable the driver can catch the tail, that's not the problem. It's that they fail to lead the car a little and straighten the wheel quick enough when the rear straightens.
Just the good old boys...never meaning no harm....reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard!
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I understand the point you're trying to make but still, the other scenario is the front just plowing straight ahead and there's not much you can do about it. If it oversteers, a good driver has a chance of controlling it.
Neither situation is safe but I guess I grew up driving sideways more than straight (blame it on the redneck town and the GN) and I feel very comfortable going sideways. Sometimes it's not predictable. I went for a quick WOT run late at night and hit a strip of water running across the road from some sprinklers at 70mph. The next thing I knew I had the steering in full lock going down a narrow road. Still have never spun and don't intend to. Even when it's unpredictable the driver can catch the tail, that's not the problem. It's that they fail to lead the car a little and straighten the wheel quick enough when the rear straightens.
Just the good old boys...never meaning no harm....reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard!
You have no idea! Only I had the [censored] V6 that the real rednecks hated.
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I understand the point you're trying to make but still, the other scenario is the front just plowing straight ahead and there's not much you can do about it. If it oversteers, a good driver has a chance of controlling it.
Neither situation is safe but I guess I grew up driving sideways more than straight (blame it on the redneck town and the GN) and I feel very comfortable going sideways. Sometimes it's not predictable. I went for a quick WOT run late at night and hit a strip of water running across the road from some sprinklers at 70mph. The next thing I knew I had the steering in full lock going down a narrow road. Still have never spun and don't intend to. Even when it's unpredictable the driver can catch the tail, that's not the problem. It's that they fail to lead the car a little and straighten the wheel quick enough when the rear straightens.
Just the good old boys...never meaning no harm....reminds me of the Dukes of Hazzard!
You have no idea! Only I had the [censored] V6 that the real rednecks hated.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
The full story is that I went to that WM a couple of weeeks ago to get the nephew's 2 snows put on front of the Volvo. They never cared about that stuff at the WM that is closer, but this one has been good and was more convenient at that time. So, it was snowing badly and I went through a lot of trouble to get there and do the job, it was basicly an emergency considering the snow on the ground and more still due. I griped and said I would jack the car up in the lot an carry in the wheels myself. They relented probally because I was pretty cool about it. I burned a lot of goodwill in the process. This last time, yes, I did ask if they could rotate them *after* installing on rear....whatever. They did not like the size thing either.
Anyway, screw that video with the new ones on rear. That demonstrates very bad driving practice and just a single parameter. How about strait braking? How about slalom or basic manouvering or just a skill driver vs the moronic driving shown in the video? How about just letting ME decide since it's MY car!
Anyway, I looked at TRs recommended installers and found a few maybes. I needed to make it to a noon appt somewhere with my woman, so I actually ended up a a truck stop near the highway where I was already meeting her to drive about 1 hour away. I dropped the car there, $17 even each and $10 for a half rotation. Meh, $43 is expensive to me but was ok this time since I did not want to rotate myself later nor run around for a few $. The guy where I did the work was friendly and attentive, making all the difference. He even pitched me on shipping directly to him, that some of his customers do it. The job came out perfectly.
Whew. The tires are killer, I mean really prime. I'll get into it in another thread later.
btw, yeah...it's a scam to sell more tires, but at the expensive of not just customers like me, but it puts people in danger.
Honda just covered this topic in their ServiceNews this past month.
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/A071200.PDF
Please take note of Honda's official position on this.
The full story is that I went to that WM a couple of weeeks ago to get the nephew's 2 snows put on front of the Volvo. They never cared about that stuff at the WM that is closer, but this one has been good and was more convenient at that time. So, it was snowing badly and I went through a lot of trouble to get there and do the job, it was basicly an emergency considering the snow on the ground and more still due. I griped and said I would jack the car up in the lot an carry in the wheels myself. They relented probally because I was pretty cool about it. I burned a lot of goodwill in the process. This last time, yes, I did ask if they could rotate them *after* installing on rear....whatever. They did not like the size thing either.
Anyway, screw that video with the new ones on rear. That demonstrates very bad driving practice and just a single parameter. How about strait braking? How about slalom or basic manouvering or just a skill driver vs the moronic driving shown in the video? How about just letting ME decide since it's MY car!
Anyway, I looked at TRs recommended installers and found a few maybes. I needed to make it to a noon appt somewhere with my woman, so I actually ended up a a truck stop near the highway where I was already meeting her to drive about 1 hour away. I dropped the car there, $17 even each and $10 for a half rotation. Meh, $43 is expensive to me but was ok this time since I did not want to rotate myself later nor run around for a few $. The guy where I did the work was friendly and attentive, making all the difference. He even pitched me on shipping directly to him, that some of his customers do it. The job came out perfectly.
Whew. The tires are killer, I mean really prime. I'll get into it in another thread later.
btw, yeah...it's a scam to sell more tires, but at the expensive of not just customers like me, but it puts people in danger.
Honda just covered this topic in their ServiceNews this past month.
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/A071200.PDF
Please take note of Honda's official position on this.
A pretty wishy-washy statement.
Nowhere is the direct question of strait braking and traction is addressed. When you brake, weight is transfered forward, increasing the need for traction there. Why do I want bald tires with less traction up there where all the braking power is? Front tires wipe the road of water for the rears. Blow-outs are less dangerous in the rear. Getting stuck in snow is far less likely with new tires on front. Any vehicle short of a minivan with a bad driver is better off with new tires up front.
The minivan my MiL has, the 2nd pair of tires are miserable white-walls like Firestone FR-480s or some similar total garbage. Those things on back is bad enough, I could not even imagine for one second how they would be better on front than the new Altimax she has. Should she just stay at home and not get any tires at all unless she can purchase four at a time? Should she spend money on 2 and put them on rear where they will be no benefit at all? (like when I wanted to put my new expensive Eagles on, POINTLESS on rear)
I've been over this before concerning frequent rotation, the best tread distribution is not 50% front 50% rear, but more like 60f/40r or even 70/30. That's my opinion until my questions about the issues above are answered. How long have we used the new tires up front and now all of a sudden...(cue:X-Files Theme Music)???
Nowhere is the direct question of strait braking and traction is addressed. When you brake, weight is transfered forward, increasing the need for traction there. Why do I want bald tires with less traction up there where all the braking power is? Front tires wipe the road of water for the rears. Blow-outs are less dangerous in the rear. Getting stuck in snow is far less likely with new tires on front. Any vehicle short of a minivan with a bad driver is better off with new tires up front.
The minivan my MiL has, the 2nd pair of tires are miserable white-walls like Firestone FR-480s or some similar total garbage. Those things on back is bad enough, I could not even imagine for one second how they would be better on front than the new Altimax she has. Should she just stay at home and not get any tires at all unless she can purchase four at a time? Should she spend money on 2 and put them on rear where they will be no benefit at all? (like when I wanted to put my new expensive Eagles on, POINTLESS on rear)
I've been over this before concerning frequent rotation, the best tread distribution is not 50% front 50% rear, but more like 60f/40r or even 70/30. That's my opinion until my questions about the issues above are answered. How long have we used the new tires up front and now all of a sudden...(cue:X-Files Theme Music)???
I realize this is a hard sell, but please be aware that car manufacturers and tire manufacturers are one by one issuing bulletins advocating putting the new tires in the rear. They are not doing this without having thought this through.
For background, the company I work for planned to issue a video in August in the subject. The lawyers decided we needed to "fill in the gaps" - straight line braking, snow, ice, etc. - just as indicated.
In February, additional video will be shot and we expect to have the video published in June.
It has been decided that we aren't going to publish all the information we generate - but it will be available in case there is a lawsuit.
BTW, a lot of this is being generated because Michelin lost a lawsuit on the subject for "Failure to Warn". I expect every major tire manufacturer and vehicle manufacturer - and probably most tire retailers - to take steps in the next year.
Bottomline: The tidal wave is coming.
For background, the company I work for planned to issue a video in August in the subject. The lawyers decided we needed to "fill in the gaps" - straight line braking, snow, ice, etc. - just as indicated.
In February, additional video will be shot and we expect to have the video published in June.
It has been decided that we aren't going to publish all the information we generate - but it will be available in case there is a lawsuit.
BTW, a lot of this is being generated because Michelin lost a lawsuit on the subject for "Failure to Warn". I expect every major tire manufacturer and vehicle manufacturer - and probably most tire retailers - to take steps in the next year.
Bottomline: The tidal wave is coming.
- Status
