Short drain intervals to clean engine?

[fuel tanker man]

I was reading the "look I made sludge"

post and it seems that some of you guys are using short drains to presumably clean up the engine a bit.

I'm pretty new here, and constantly trying to learn.

My question is, how short? Is 500 to 1000 miles considered short--and beneficial?

I know all about the Auto RX stuff. If it were cheaper and readily available I'd be more interested. I may actually try it some day.

But until then, what might a high detergent oil--with perhaps a good solvent additive like Marvel Mystery Oil do with a couple of quick changes? I've found the MMO for as low as 3 bucks a quart and I can say that it definitely does scrub the engine to some extent (oil darkens very shortly after pouring in the MMO). So with a couple oil changes that I'd have less than ten dollars each in (counting the MMO) might I at least move enough sludge out of my engine to give some benefit?

Dan

 

[lobo11]

I don't know about MMO, but just becasue an oil turns dark doesn't necessarily mean it is getting dirty from cleaning. It could very well be that the MMO and its solvency is actually bad for the anti-oxidant package in the base oil you are using, therefore the darker oxidized color.

 

[Jackpot01]

Dan,
I think you have a good idea, but the only thing I would worry about is knocking the sludge loose and causing more problems. From what I have read on here the Auto RX is a slow working cleaning process. You really dont wanna hit the sludge with all you got and plug anything up in your motor. I would just run 3k OCI's of a good HDEO and at the last 500 miles add some MMO or Seafoam. That way you are slowly cleaning with the HDEO and then you can knock some junk loose with the additive.

I see your from Wytheville, I was just thru there about a month ago. There were some nice looking ladies working at Sonic

Eric

 

[Terry]

Dan, if that would work I would have been suggesting MMO and a good oils use in short drains for years.

I have not.


Auto-RX is safe and when cleaning a engine internally I have yet to find a suitable substitute.

Once Rx'd using LC and FP systematically helps too.


If you just won't use Auto-RX then LC is the next best alternative for initial cleaning but is not a internal cleaner like Auto-Rx.

The detergency of the motor oil will not be as big a player as once would suspect.


Please do a BITOG search and read the older posts on cleaning, lubricating and how NO motor oil will do it on its own ( without giving up lubricity).

Preferably focus on the posts of people who test that kind of thing for a living and post data.

PS I don't sell Auto-RX or LC/FP, I just haven't found anything like them.

Hope that helps.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry:
The detergency of the motor oil will not be as big a player as once would suspect.

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In relation to the Auto-Rx cleaning process or in general?

I noticed (limited experience, but) that Valvoline Maxlife makes my oil and filter much dirtier than Valvoline Durablend. A Valvo tech told me both have similar amounts of detergent. I think Max must have more or something else is happening. And this is recent so not the old Maxlife with esters.

But wow! Just cut open the filter from 1500 miles of ARx treatment and it is as black as the filter before that I ran 4000 miles with Maxlife! I am inpressed. Now into cleaning stage and am expecting a near miracle.

 

[Terry]

Tall Paul, Both.

The color variation/change in lubes can be caused by type adds used,additive activation,oxidation,contamination,fuel dilution,failure of the adds or base oils in the lube,and finally dispersed solids,or combustion byproduct.

Motor oils do very little real cleaning except to MAINTAIN a level of cleanliness.

No miracles just tribological chemistry.

 

[MGBV8]

I've been impressed by posts here on auto rx but not available in UK.

I'm involved with MG classic cars, A&B engines with say only 75-100k miles but on a diet of Castrol 20W 50.
I've always avoided a synth because of disturbing deposits and ending up with leaking seals, some older V8's have rope seals.

Any possible downside to using auto rx in these circumstances.

Should keep hands supple if nothing else.

 

[Dr. T]

Slap in some Delvac 1 (synth. diesel oil) and you'll see cleaning going on....

 

[2003TRD]

I am a believer that short oil change/flushes are good for the engine, This is only based on the experience of a good friend. He had an older ford escort EXP that he bought with a little over 100K on it. He worked at a gas station so he could change his oil for free and he noticed when he got the car the oil blackened very quickly (within a few hundred miles) so he would do an oil change with dino every time it darkened and the interval gradually become quite long. He then changed his oil routinely every 2500-3000 miles and that **** escort would not die! he actually gave it away with over 250K miles on it and it ran like new.

 

[Tree Hugger]

Back in the early '70's one of my friends was a VW mechanic. He made a steady profit buying customer's old rough-running Beetles, changing the oil every day (free at work) while he drove them as his personal car, then selling them on for nearly twice the price when they were running strong and silent about a month later!
He very rarely had to fix anything mechanical, just drive it around town, and change the oil every day for a month.

 

[fuel tanker man]

It's good to see the different perspectives here. I've got an old Escort with 162K miles on it. Currently it's got a sump full of Delo 400 (15W40). I'll change that out before it gets too cold, of course.

Jackpot mentioned "I see your from Wytheville, I was just thru there about a month ago. There were some nice looking ladies working at Sonic."
Yeah JP, you're right. My friend and I ride our motorcycles up there just about every evening and hang out for a bit. He's got a terrible crush on Brandy.

Dan

 

[TC]

I know there's pros on this board who will caution about assuming oil is still good even though clear. But for purposes of this thread (detergent/dispersant capabilities), I think it obvious that until your new oil darkens, it likely still has D&D capabilities left (or isn't having any cleaning effect). I certainly wouldn't be draining it at 1,000 miles if it hasn't darkened. Use of a mixed fleet "diesel" lube would be even more helpful in cleaning out sludge (and possibly varnish), but there's no sense dumping it until it either darkens or hits your usual oil change time/mileage.

 

[fuel tanker man]

TC,

Good point. That's what I was wondering.

Realizing that anecdotal evidence is of course, anecdotal

I still must wonder what it is about the quick changes that seemed--in the cited cases--to improve the cleanliness (or at least functionality) of the engine.

Could it be that doing quick filter changes and leaving the oil in there would do as much?

I'm with you that if the oil isn't darkening it doesn't seem logical to believe it is carrying any suspended sludge. So if it is breaking it loose and sending it to the filter for entrapment then maybe we should change the filter an extra time or two and leave the oil be. No?

Of course opening up the filter and checking to see what is in there would be helpful.

Does anyone have reason to dispute TC's notion that if the oil ain't dirty don't change it?

Dan

 

[TC]

Howdy, Fuel Dude!

"I still must wonder what it is about the quick changes that seemed--in the cited cases--to improve the cleanliness (or at least functionality) of the engine." I'm sure those super-quick (up to daily!) oil changes help just as described. But I can't help but wonder if keeping an oil in for 500, 1,000, or 1,500 mi (or whenever it darkened) wouldn't have had exactly the same effect.

"So if it is breaking it loose and sending it to the filter for entrapment then maybe we should change the filter an extra time or two and leave the oil be." My guess is that the two are normally directly linked. If an oil appears truly "dirty," you can assume the filter could use a change too. If the oil isn't dirty yet, no need to change the filter. If seems reasonable that sludge is composed of varying sizes of dirt/soot particles and petrochem residues. Per one white paper, 98% of all solid contaminants generated within engines (soot) is below 10 micron in size. Even the PureOne only filters down to about 11 microns (Mercruiser study), so the vast majority of soot (which comprises some significant amount of sludge) will not be entrapped by the filter, yet will blacken the oil. I don't see any reason why a filter should be assumed to need change-out SOONER than oil. Detroit often maintains the opposite: Many new cars call for filter changes every OTHER oil service.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by MGBV8:
I've been impressed by posts here on auto rx but not available in UK.

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It's only available through the web at www.auto-rx.com. So the question is, what is the overseas shipping cost? If I recall correctly, BITOG folks get a discount/deal of some sort.