Shopping for new riding mower, John Deere?

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
I am on borrowed time with my JD180 with the kawasaki engine. I bought it used from a friend for $125. The hood is busted and the deck is falling apart but the engine is smooth as silk.. it has been abused for many years.

I also have another JD that I bought last year..got it for $100 from another buddy..its a lawn tractor and i thought i burned him because it was alot bigger and nicer than my 180..but he said the transmission slips.. so i dropped it off a year ago at a repair shop and they said its going to need a new transmission. K46 is whats in it and from what i can tell they are all junk at some point..and expensive. I dont think its worth repairing but maybe.

If i had to buy one today i dont think i would look at the craftsman..due to Sears/Kmart probably not going to be around much longer.

My new criteria is going to be a serviceable transmission at least.. and a motor not made in china.


FWIW.. i am friends with a guy that works at a local gravely/polaris dealership.. i see some cherry 50s and 60s gravely riding mowers that are just in there for a belt or something minor.. they built them too well i think..



That JD 180 should last awhile. The main problem with those are the stupid plastic hoods cracking and breaking. Other than that they are awesome mowers, and parts are still extremely easy to find. I'm not surprised the newer one with the K46 is having issues. The K46 is too light of a transmission for a lawn tractor in my opinion. Hills or towing will make it die even quicker. If your 180 needs any repairs, it would be a better investment to put a little money into it for upkeep compared to a new machine, it will last much longer. That same Kawasaki engine is used in many commercial walk behind mowers that see thousands of hours.

The Gravely tractors are really tough to kill. I have a 1971 C8 walkbehind with dual wheels. Heavy beast but built for commercial work, just like those riders.



The newer one with the bad transmission- the guy has a big hill to mow and he put chains on it..he weighs almost 300lbs. I think it lasted 2 seasons before it gave up.

I bought the 180 with a busted hood...it was duct taped together..i run it without the hood though. Cuts and does everything flawlessly just looks like a mad max mower.

I found a K46 on ebay..guy is selling them new for $360..so probably going to fix the newer one then im going to start looking for a gravely if these bite the dust.


What model is the newer tractor? I know on many of the forums the guys have swapped in a K66 transmission, which is a much tougher garden tractor unit. My G110 has one, and it's basically the same as the other 100 series sold at home depot. They make kits out there to swap in a K66. Might be worth it if you can find a good condition used transmission.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: AMC
Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Steep hills and hydro transmissions don't mix well.

I'd suggest the AYP built, 42 inch Craftsman 6 speed LT2000. 19HP Platinum Briggs engine with oil filter, tight turn radius and cast iron front axle. Decent machine by todays standards I think.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-42inch-19...HMKDw#Imagezoom

That is first time I have heard hydros and hills don't work well. Wouldn't hills and belts be even worse?

The brakes are what slow you down on this machine. The brakes completely wore out last year and I just roll to a stop for everything.

Brakes on those models adjustable and the pads can be replaced if necessary.

Read the reviews for the hydro machines and the Sears recommended terrain (hilly). Some complain of being hard to control down steep inclines.
Furthermore, to get one of the better hydro transmissions requires forking over for one of pricey models with larger decks and other features you probably don't need or want.

I think you'd find the Craftsman very familiar, it has the same style vented deck as the oder models and disperses the grass clippings a good distance. Easy to service and get parts for too. Hard to beat for the price and they should have some sales going on soon.

 

[Gebo]

I'd probably talk with the guys in power equipment at lowes and Home depot.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: AMC


That is first time I have heard hydros and hills don't work well. Wouldn't hills and belts be even worse?

That being said, My current craftsman is a belt drive. It hasn't given me any trouble and I have only replaced the belt once or twice over the years. It does slip going up the hills but only when the belt is ready for replacement.

The brakes are what slow you down on this machine. The brakes completely wore out last year and I just roll to a stop for everything. That combined with the fact that the blades stay on once they are turned on make this machine fairly unsafe but I have just been dealing with it.


They're not all bad on hills, especially if you take care of them.

Unless you get a high end Cub Cadet or JD, they're ALL belt drive. Hydrostatic or gear-shift drive. Given what you describe, I'm assuming your current Craftsman is gear-shift and not hydrostatic (asked you this earlier). You don't typically use the brake to slow down or stop with a hydrostatic drive machine. The hydro does the stopping for you.

 

[WhizkidTN]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: WhizkidTN
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Avoid Cub Cadet, and avoid Kohler. The newer Kohlers are all made in China. There are numerous horror stories about the Kohler Courage series of engines. Cub Cadets are just expensive MTD nightmares.

The Home Depot Deeres are decent machines for their price. Take care of it, and it will last a while.


FYI: The Kohler website says the 22-HP V-Twin Series 7000 used in the CC is "Engineered/Assembled" in the USA.

https://power.kohler.com/na-en/engines/product/kt715


Yup, they are engineered and assembled in the USA, but with foreign made/lesser quality parts. Such a shame, because I love Kohler engines. My 2005 John Deere has a Command V-Twin (the older better made series) with 700+ hours and it doesn't burn a drop of oil.


Perhaps so, IDK, but how do you know that it is a subpar engine as a result?

 

[BrianF]

I have a 2015 or so Craftsman T3200. Its a Husky built unit. It does have the dreaded K46 though. When I bought it there was about 130 hours. I dropped the trans, opened it up, cleaned the magnets and refilled with 5w50 Synthetic. Runs great. I do not have a lot of hills but a few sharp turns in the ditch. Never slowed down once after several hours of mowing. Only thing I wish it had was a diff lock.

I am under no illusion this a pro machine but it works great, turns really sharp, electric PTO and has more than enough power. Briggs Platinum, 22hp.

If you are looking at a box store machine these are fine.

 

[asb151]

With normal engine maintenance and regular oil changes the weak link in these entry level machines will almost always be the transaxle. My 2003 Deere L110 with a k46 started slowing a and making noises around 280 hours. After a change to 15w50 synthetic oil(factory fill was 5w30) the tranny returned to like new performance. That was in 2012 and about 80 hours ago. My visit to the local Deere dealer 6 months ago revealed the x300 series still uses a k46 which was quite a dissappointment. You need to step up one level more to get a better tranny. The other thing the dealer told me is that the new D series uses a new less capable version of the K46. If you remember you are on a rider mower and not a "tractor" your expectations will be in line with reality. In the end pulling the transaxle for an oil change or upgrade is quite easy.

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: JTK

They're not all bad on hills, especially if you take care of them.

Unless you get a high end Cub Cadet or JD, they're ALL belt drive. Hydrostatic or gear-shift drive. Given what you describe, I'm assuming your current Craftsman is gear-shift and not hydrostatic (asked you this earlier). You don't typically use the brake to slow down or stop with a hydrostatic drive machine. The hydro does the stopping for you.


Yes my current Craftsman is a gear shift, 6 forward speed and one reverse. With all this talk of the hydro's going bad, are the "automatic" or whatever non hydrostatic trannys are these days any good? I can't say my current machine has ever given me troubles with the transaxle.

Do the Hydro transaxle have drain and fill plugs or do you have to crack them open to change the fluid. I do not mind doing the fluid changes myself if they have drain and fill plugs. Even if it is just a fill plug, that is fine; I have a pneumatic suction tool that will take care of it.

I looked closely at my current mower today. It is a 2003 model (older than I thought) and I can't say I have any real complains, especially given the age and how the hills in my yard beat on this machine. It is just old and beat up and probably needs more time and money than I care to spend on it.

 

[BrianF]

The K46 needs to be dropped and tipped upside down to drain. You have to crack it open to clean the magnets. There is a factory bulletin where you can add drain plugs to both the gear set side and pump side. But on the Husky/Craftsman mowers you would have to drop it anyways to fill it due to the clearance under the fuel tank. I didnt bother and in a few years I will drop it and change the oil again. I must say that after 230 hours the factory oil was still quite clear but the magnets were filthy. the strainer/filer was clean.

I had looked at the D series and up to the X series and was quite upset to see that they all use a version of the K46 and those models cost a pretty penny up here. My Craftsman does everything that the Deere can do but at a pile less money. The engines are similar as well.

I am not trying to keep up with the Jones' or get into a **** out competition, just wanting the best bang for my buck.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: AMC

[I looked closely at my current mower today. It is a 2003 model (older than I thought) and I can't say I have any real complains, especially given the age and how the hills in my yard beat on this machine. It is just old and beat up and probably needs more time and money than I care to spend on it.


At 14 years of trouble free service, I'd say you got your money's worth out of that machine.

Here is a good review of the Hydro Craftsman 19HP Tractor. Interestingly, some of the Craftsman Pro series tractors are more or less Cub Cadets with slightly different styling and seat.

http://todaysmower.com/2014-craftsman-42-in-19hp-t2200-hydro-model-20381/

 

[4WD]

They have had that look for a while BC it looks like mine ... I buy stuff like this - run about 8-10 years and then sell for about $300 bucks so the first buyer normally hauls it off - has a decent machine they can afford.
Sears puts the new one on my driveway ...
I'm out of town too much to leave my wife anything that will have NPT - so swap before worn out.

 

[AMC]

After some looking, this is the only riding mower of any brand that still offers a manual gear shift transmission. The manual transmission should last longer than any of the hydrostactics in the home owner range. This is also the closest machine to the one I have now.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-42inch-19...mp;blockType=G8

I wish it was substantially cheaper than the John Deere but it is not, especially considering I get a 10% discount at home depot and JD is offering a free utility cart with their mowers.

While I kind of wanted to try something different, this might be the most practical way to go. It appears that Craftsman mowers are one of the very few home owner grade mowers that really haven't gone down too much in quality over the years. I find that hard to believe based on their hand tools but many sources on the net are saying it.

Hmmmm more food for thought.....

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: AMC
After some looking, this is the only riding mower of any brand that still offers a manual gear shift transmission. The manual transmission should last longer than any of the hydrostactics in the home owner range. This is also the closest machine to the one I have now.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-42inch-19...mp;blockType=G8

I wish it was substantially cheaper than the John Deere but it is not, especially considering I get a 10% discount at home depot and JD is offering a free utility cart with their mowers.


Actually, to get a comparable JD one must step up to the D125 ($1799) which gets you a little more HP and the T2 hydro-trans (as in the Craftsman 19HP 20381 $1499) but the Craftsman has the better (I think) fender speed control.

However, if forking over $1800 for the D125 might as well kick in another $200 for the D140 which gets a heavier hydro trans and larger rear tires. (See how this starts to get expensive)..

I like the Craftsman because its a proven AYP platform which has served me well for a long time. Yes, they've cheapened up the design over the years but so have all the other makes.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Here is a informative list of the best 2017 Lawn Tractors under $1500:

http://todaysmower.com/seven-best-riding-mowers-under-1500-for-2017/

Also, in other reviews on the site there is some question whether some of the 100 series JD Briggs engines have full pressure oil systems and therefore, while good machine are not recommended for sustained hilly terrain.

The Craftsman 20380 and 20381 on the other hand has the Platinum Briggs engine with full pressure oiling.

 

[krismoriah72]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
I am on borrowed time with my JD180 with the kawasaki engine. I bought it used from a friend for $125. The hood is busted and the deck is falling apart but the engine is smooth as silk.. it has been abused for many years.

I also have another JD that I bought last year..got it for $100 from another buddy..its a lawn tractor and i thought i burned him because it was alot bigger and nicer than my 180..but he said the transmission slips.. so i dropped it off a year ago at a repair shop and they said its going to need a new transmission. K46 is whats in it and from what i can tell they are all junk at some point..and expensive. I dont think its worth repairing but maybe.

If i had to buy one today i dont think i would look at the craftsman..due to Sears/Kmart probably not going to be around much longer.

My new criteria is going to be a serviceable transmission at least.. and a motor not made in china.


FWIW.. i am friends with a guy that works at a local gravely/polaris dealership.. i see some cherry 50s and 60s gravely riding mowers that are just in there for a belt or something minor.. they built them too well i think..



That JD 180 should last awhile. The main problem with those are the stupid plastic hoods cracking and breaking. Other than that they are awesome mowers, and parts are still extremely easy to find. I'm not surprised the newer one with the K46 is having issues. The K46 is too light of a transmission for a lawn tractor in my opinion. Hills or towing will make it die even quicker. If your 180 needs any repairs, it would be a better investment to put a little money into it for upkeep compared to a new machine, it will last much longer. That same Kawasaki engine is used in many commercial walk behind mowers that see thousands of hours.

The Gravely tractors are really tough to kill. I have a 1971 C8 walkbehind with dual wheels. Heavy beast but built for commercial work, just like those riders.



The newer one with the bad transmission- the guy has a big hill to mow and he put chains on it..he weighs almost 300lbs. I think it lasted 2 seasons before it gave up.

I bought the 180 with a busted hood...it was duct taped together..i run it without the hood though. Cuts and does everything flawlessly just looks like a mad max mower.

I found a K46 on ebay..guy is selling them new for $360..so probably going to fix the newer one then im going to start looking for a gravely if these bite the dust.


What model is the newer tractor? I know on many of the forums the guys have swapped in a K66 transmission, which is a much tougher garden tractor unit. My G110 has one, and it's basically the same as the other 100 series sold at home depot. They make kits out there to swap in a K66. Might be worth it if you can find a good condition used transmission.


Its a D170..2014 model. I couldnt resist paying $100 for it..i looked it up and they cost like $2000 used. I looked into the K66 but think im going to go with the $360 new transmission and call it a day. Worst case scenario is i can probably flip it and make a few bucks and put aside for when my current hoodless one goes down.

 

[AMC]

Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone
Originally Posted By: AMC
After some looking, this is the only riding mower of any brand that still offers a manual gear shift transmission. The manual transmission should last longer than any of the hydrostactics in the home owner range. This is also the closest machine to the one I have now.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-42inch-19...mp;blockType=G8

I wish it was substantially cheaper than the John Deere but it is not, especially considering I get a 10% discount at home depot and JD is offering a free utility cart with their mowers.


Actually, to get a comparable JD one must step up to the D125 ($1799) which gets you a little more HP and the T2 hydro-trans (as in the Craftsman 19HP 20381 $1499) but the Craftsman has the better (I think) fender speed control.

However, if forking over $1800 for the D125 might as well kick in another $200 for the D140 which gets a heavier hydro trans and larger rear tires. (See how this starts to get expensive)..

I like the Craftsman because its a proven AYP platform which has served me well for a long time. Yes, they've cheapened up the design over the years but so have all the other makes.


I am really leaning towards the Craftsman with the 6 speed trans now. My current machine really has been trouble free and it is a 2003. I am not a big fan of sears or craftsman but I can't deny that the machine has been reliable. I am also hearing that all of the home owner grade mowers, regardless of brand are all about the same quality level; which is to say, not great.

As far as sears closing, I am not too worried about it. If anything breaks, I should be able to get generic parts for the machine that will fit and work. My local sears is not one of the ones closing during the downsize either.

While I want to like the John Deere D125, I just don't trust the hydrostatic transmission after all of the horror stories of them failing early. I also don't like the fact that it only has 2 scalp wheels and the V-twin engine is supposedly very thirsty compared to the single cylinder. All of those factors are kind of ruining it for me.....

Whatever mower I buy, I am going to try to do better job of taking care of it. I am going to buy a seat cover and weather cover for it right away. I am going to do my best to keep the sun off of it and I think that goes a long way. I am also going to use compressed air and blow off the machine, rather than trying to pressure wash it all the time. I have a much bigger, better compressor now so that will be a lot easier to do.

In the mean time, I have been watching a bunch of youtube videos on how to replace the brake pads on my current machine. I am going to take care of that either way. If I keep it, the brakes will work and if I sell it, I should have a much easier time selling it with the brakes working.

Thanks for your help, I will let you know what I end up doing.

 

[JTK]

I'm not aware of the fender shift 6-spd being cheapened up over the years, but even years ago, they were nothing heavy-duty. If you had good luck with the 2003, I don't see why you wouldn't with a 2017.

If your sights are on a new Craftsman rider, check your area for a Husqvarna or Jonsered dealer that sells riders. Same as Husqvarna group built Craftsmans, but with better options and a dealer network.

 

[AMC]

JTK- Already looked at Husky, they don't offer a manual transmission. The long term reliability of the manual transmission is the only reason I am looking at getting another Craftsman. If hydrostatics were the only type of transaxle I could get, I would just buy a John Deere d110 or d125 and call it a day.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: JTK
I'm not aware of the fender shift 6-spd being cheapened up over the years, but even years ago, they were nothing heavy-duty. If you had good luck with the 2003, I don't see why you wouldn't with a 2017.


Outside of engines and cup holders, all Craftsman tractors, etc have undergone major cost cutting efforts over the past 10 years.

No more big 20x10 Carlise Turf-Saver tires, now everything gets 20 x 8 unless you spend at least $2000+. Frames and sheet metal are small, thin and flimsy.( I could easily stand on the hood of my 1995 Craftsman LT 2000, try that on on yard tractor these days). No more infinite adjustable deck cutting height option, awkward left hand deck adjustment lever. Flimsy blade engagement via a thin wire cable that eventually brakes, one forward support rod for the mower deck instead of two, mediocre seats, exposed battery tray with no cover, deck pulley shields gone, to name a few..

And thats just the AYP built machines, MTD units are worse.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: AMC
JTK- Already looked at Husky, they don't offer a manual transmission. The long term reliability of the manual transmission is the only reason I am looking at getting another Craftsman. If hydrostatics were the only type of transaxle I could get, I would just buy a John Deere d110 or d125 and call it a day.

You may want to consider the Craftsman 42 inch Fast-Auto tractor with the stronger RS800SD auto/CVT transmission. They are good for hilly terrain if you don't mind the foot controls.

There is a also the fuel efficient 20 hp B&S V-twin model, both give up the high back seat and fender controls for a stronger trans and a better engine (on the LTD Edition model and loses the tight turn radius). I would go look them over before making a decision.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-42inch-turn-tight-174-briggs-stratton-platinum/p-07125581000P?
sid=I0084400010000100600&aff=Y&PID=4195712&AID=11569691&utm_medium=2306911_4195712_11569691

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-42inch-20-hp-briggs-stratton-platinum-v/p-07127398000P?
plpSellerId=Sears&prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2