Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5W-30 vs. Shell Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 compared

Gokhan

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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
As a note, Shell's star polymers are also pretty rock solid when it comes to shear stability. I wouldn't worry about RTG holding its grade.
Star polymers?? They are not used these days because of their deposit-forming tendencies. Oils cannot pass the turbocharger tests with them. Moreover, Shell doesn't make additives. The additive company Infineum is jointly owned by ExxonMobil and Shell.
 
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..."It's good to see the wear numbers went down, but at this point we don't know if you're still observing engine-break-in effects. It would be very interesting if you could do some 0W-20 UOAs in the future for a better comparison, with the engine-break-in effects having subsided"... Gokhan Eventually I will run 0w-20 for comparison. I tend to run a oil/oil filter combo a minimum of 3 times for data consistency. If I follow my usual path...that will leave one more OC using Rotella 5w-30 and the Purolator Boss filter I just put on for both the current and third OC. Whether I ultimately decide to run a 0w-20 with an extended life filter next OC or after the third run will depend on what the UOA looks like. I will draw sample at ~6k and send off before committing to a course of action. I enjoy the science of oil and oil filters. No expert by any means. I learn by reading and applying principles. Feedback is appreciated.
 
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
It appears no one mentioned moly. RGT has 160 ppm moly. Rotella MV has 3 ppm as per a VOA that was posted. Doesn't matter much to me but maybe the moly fans might care. smile
you don't have to worry about others ... admit it. You like moly grin2 If they add that moly to T6 MV, I may consider it shocked2
Titanium or Tungsten over Moly in a first round KO.
But Molly is cuter ... grin2
 
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Originally Posted by SR5
For those tough gas truck drivers, the stout oil to get is Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30 also called Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W30 in North America. It's a GTL (PurePlus) based full synthetic oil. It's rated API SN-Plus, ACEA A3/B4, BMW LL-01, MB 229.5 / 226.5 and Renault RN 0700 / 0710. From the specs alone, we know it's a 5W30 that has passed LSPI tests for TDGI engines (SN-Plus), has a Noack of 10% or lower (MB 229.5), a TBN of 10 or more for long life ( A3/B4), a HTHS of 3.5 cP or more for extra wear protection (A3/B4) plus lots more BMW and MB test for low wear and deposit control. It would be required to pass a stay-in-grade shear stability test. Dexos is good and all that, but you only need a Noack of 13% to pass Dexos (15% for API), and neither include a shear stability test like ACEA or the wear and deposit tests of the Euro OEMs. Sure, no strong fuel economy requirements, but you can't have everything. And most of us would never notice the difference. (And never start a sentence with "and" !) https://shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en/dcb9ca69-19d5-452c-be13-aabb117dc6d7.pdf
Where can I find this at Platinum-prices? It's not the same as the Platinum Euro L, which only carries Dexos 2 - available at Walmart and priced the same as Platinum.
 
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Originally Posted by OS4A
..."It's good to see the wear numbers went down, but at this point we don't know if you're still observing engine-break-in effects. It would be very interesting if you could do some 0W-20 UOAs in the future for a better comparison, with the engine-break-in effects having subsided"... Gokhan Eventually I will run 0w-20 for comparison. I tend to run a oil/oil filter combo a minimum of 3 times for data consistency. If I follow my usual path...that will leave one more OC using Rotella 5w-30 and the Purolator Boss filter I just put on for both the current and third OC. Whether I ultimately decide to run a 0w-20 with an extended life filter next OC or after the third run will depend on what the UOA looks like. I will draw sample at ~6k and send off before committing to a course of action. I enjoy the science of oil and oil filters. No expert by any means. I learn by reading and applying principles. Feedback is appreciated.
' Our crosstrek barely tolerated a high margin 5w20 I ran last summer (Magnetec Synthetic) A 5W30 Diesel oil will do nothing good for that FB20 I don't know what you are trying to "help" with that oil. -Ken A fellow Subaru Owner Had everything from a Justy 3 cyl to the SVX high performance boxer 6. over 10 and counting smile
 
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by OS4A
..."It's good to see the wear numbers went down, but at this point we don't know if you're still observing engine-break-in effects. It would be very interesting if you could do some 0W-20 UOAs in the future for a better comparison, with the engine-break-in effects having subsided"... Gokhan Eventually I will run 0w-20 for comparison. I tend to run a oil/oil filter combo a minimum of 3 times for data consistency. If I follow my usual path...that will leave one more OC using Rotella 5w-30 and the Purolator Boss filter I just put on for both the current and third OC. Whether I ultimately decide to run a 0w-20 with an extended life filter next OC or after the third run will depend on what the UOA looks like. I will draw sample at ~6k and send off before committing to a course of action. I enjoy the science of oil and oil filters. No expert by any means. I learn by reading and applying principles. Feedback is appreciated.
' Our crosstrek barely tolerated a high margin 5w20 I ran last summer (Magnetec Synthetic) A 5W30 Diesel oil will do nothing good for that FB20 I don't know what you are trying to "help" with that oil. -Ken A fellow Subaru Owner Had everything from a Justy 3 cyl to the SVX high performance boxer 6. over 10 and counting smile
This diesel oil is also SN+ rated, the only difference ia that it is not a ressource conserving oil, which is only for fuel economy. It is a great oil and is more shear stable than gf5 oils.
 
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Gokhan Mobil 1 EP 0w20 - VI is 173, HTHS of 2.7, and KV100 @ 8.6. Valvoline Advanced Full Syn 0w20 - VI 167, HTHS of 2.7, and KV100 @ 8.1. Which oil would consider to have a higher VII?
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted by painfx
Gokhan Mobil 1 EP 0w20 - VI is 173, HTHS of 2.7, and KV100 @ 8.6. Valvoline Advanced Full Syn 0w20 - VI 167, HTHS of 2.7, and KV100 @ 8.1. Which oil would consider to have a higher VII?
The oil with the higher KV100 will have more VII. I explained this in a different thread as: >> For similar oils higher KV100 means higher VII content. << Moreover, for oils with a similar KV100, higher HTHS means lower VII content. Therefore, for a low VII content, you want a low KV100 and a high HTHS. For example a 5W-20 will have less VII than a 5W-30 and its KV100 will be less as a result. The way it technically works is that a typical VII multiplies KV40 and KV100 of a base oil by approximately the same number (although some multiply KV40 by a larger number and some KV100 by a larger number). Effectively this thickens the oil while maintaining the cold-flow properties and raises the viscosity index. This is what VIIs do: thicken the oil by maintaining the cold-flow properties. As some mistakenly believe, most VIIs do not thicken the oil more when the temperature gets higher. You can easily tell from the KV100 numbers that Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0W-20 has less VII than Mobil 1 EP 0W-20. These are the estimated relative VII contents from the table linked below: Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0W-20: 1.7% VII Mobil 1 EP 0W-20: 3.8% VII VAS has a low KV100, which results in a low VII content. (Note that M1 EP 0W-20 is PAO-and-AN-based according to MSDS. Valvoline Advanced Synthetic grades are GTL or Group III+.) Base-oil viscosity and VII content estimates
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by painfx
Gokhan Mobil 1 EP 0w20 - VI is 173, HTHS of 2.7, and KV100 @ 8.6. Valvoline Advanced Full Syn 0w20 - VI 167, HTHS of 2.7, and KV100 @ 8.1. Which oil would consider to have a higher VII?
The oil with the higher KV100 will have more VII. I explained this in a different thread as: >> For similar oils higher KV100 means higher VII content. << Moreover, for oils with a similar KV100, higher HTHS means lower VII content. Therefore, for a low VII content, you want a low KV100 and a high HTHS. For example a 5W-20 will have less VII than a 5W-30 and its KV100 will be less as a result. The way it technically works is that a typical VII multiplies KV40 and KV100 of a base oil by approximately the same number (although some multiply KV40 by a larger number and some KV100 by a larger number). Effectively this thickens the oil while maintaining the cold-flow properties and raises the viscosity index. This is what VIIs do: thicken the oil by maintaining the cold-flow properties. As some mistakenly believe, most VIIs do not thicken the oil more when the temperature gets higher. You can easily tell from the KV100 numbers that Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0W-20 has less VII than Mobil 1 EP 0W-20. These are the estimated relative VII contents from the table linked below: Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0W-20: 1.7% VII Mobil 1 EP 0W-20: 3.8% VII VAS has a low KV100, which results in a low VII content. (Note that M1 EP 0W-20 is PAO-and-AN-based according to MSDS. Valvoline Advanced Synthetic grades are GTL or Group III+.) Base-oil viscosity and VII content estimates
So going with an oil that already has High PAO base oil, it still can have high VII? I thought that was the point of buying a high PAO base oil so that it will shear less vs a GRP III oil? Also there are some grade oil from Valvoline Full Syn with higher Noack of 12%. Would it consider to have high VII because of the high Noack?
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted by painfx
So going with an oil that already has High PAO base oil, it still can have high VII? I thought that was the point of buying a high PAO base oil so that it will shear less vs a GRP III oil? Also there are some grade oil from Valvoline Full Syn with higher Noack of 12%. Would it consider to have high VII because of the high Noack?
Yeah, if you start from a thin PAO base oil, you will still need a lot of VII. With 0W-20 the only limiting factor to how thin a base oil you can use is the upper Noack limit, as there is no lower CCS limit for the SAE 0W grade, since SAE 0W is the lowest in SAE viscosity grades. 3.8% VII content of M1 EP 0W-20 is not bad though. 1.7% VII content of VAS 0W-20 is unusually low. Some GTL base stocks have even higher VI than some PAO base stocks; so, it's possible to formulate oils with a very low VII content using GTL base stocks. There is no VAS with 12% Noack. Highest Noack for VAS are 11.4% and 11.1% for VAS 0W-16 and VAS 0W-20, respectively.
 
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Maybe they just dump quaker state synthetic in the jug and call it Shell gas n truck lol. I'm sure that's perfectly fine though as Im sure quaker state is as good all the rest.
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by painfx
So going with an oil that already has High PAO base oil, it still can have high VII? I thought that was the point of buying a high PAO base oil so that it will shear less vs a GRP III oil? Also there are some grade oil from Valvoline Full Syn with higher Noack of 12%. Would it consider to have high VII because of the high Noack?
Yeah, if you start from a thin PAO base oil, you will still need a lot of VII. With 0W-20 the only limiting factor to how thin a base oil you can use is the upper Noack limit, as there is no lower CCS limit for the SAE 0W grade, since SAE 0W is the lowest in SAE viscosity grades. 3.8% VII content of M1 EP 0W-20 is not bad though. 1.7% VII content of VAS 0W-20 is unusually low. Some GTL base stocks have even higher VI than some PAO base stocks; so, it's possible to formulate oils with a very low VII content using GTL base stocks. There is no VAS with 12% Noack. Highest Noack for VAS are 11.4% and 11.1% for VAS 0W-16 and VAS 0W-20, respectively.
Valvoline Modern Engine Full Syn 0w20 has Noack of 12%. So an oil with high Noack, would that consider to have higher VII?
 

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Originally Posted by painfx
Valvoline Modern Engine Full Syn 0w20 has Noack of 12%. So an oil with high Noack, would that consider to have higher VII?
I'm not a fan of Valvoline Modern Engine. I think Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is better. VII contents for both are listed in my table.
 
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All of the "clearance" Shell RTG oil I got at AutoZone isn't going to be used in any truck. Thanks for this info - I was planning on running it in the Kia Optima 2.4 GDI, and I think it will be fine for that.
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Some GTL base stocks have even higher VI than some PAO base stocks; so, it's possible to formulate oils with a very low VII content using GTL base stocks. .
That's very good to know, since I purchased MANY Pennz Platinum and Euro oil jugs when they wen't on clearance a few years ago. The truck 4.6 L gets worked *very* hard (extended WOT operations), and that is what the GTL oils I have goes into.
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by painfx
Valvoline Modern Engine Full Syn 0w20 has Noack of 12%. So an oil with high Noack, would that consider to have higher VII?
I'm not a fan of Valvoline Modern Engine. I think Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is better. VII contents for both are listed in my table.
Valvoline states that VME is good for TGDI engines. I see they have high Noack levels and VII.
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by painfx
Valvoline Modern Engine Full Syn 0w20 has Noack of 12%. So an oil with high Noack, would that consider to have higher VII?
I'm not a fan of Valvoline Modern Engine. I think Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is better. VII contents for both are listed in my table.
Valvoline states that VME is good for TGDI engines. I see they have high Noack levels and VII.
As I mentioned in the other thread, Valvoline Modern Engine seems to have less ash than Valvoline Advanced Synthetic's 0.97%, which should help reduce the GDI intake-valve deposits (IVD).
 
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by painfx
Valvoline Modern Engine Full Syn 0w20 has Noack of 12%. So an oil with high Noack, would that consider to have higher VII?
I'm not a fan of Valvoline Modern Engine. I think Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is better. VII contents for both are listed in my table.
Valvoline states that VME is good for TGDI engines. I see they have high Noack levels and VII.
As I mentioned in the other thread, Valvoline Modern Engine seems to have less ash than Valvoline Advanced Synthetic's 0.97%, which should help reduce the GDI intake-valve deposits (IVD).
Now I'm runing VME 5W-20 in my Hemi 5.7, and as I posted before I will OCI per OLM (10K miles) - any word of caution? Thanks
 

Gokhan

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Originally Posted by OilReport99
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by painfx
Valvoline states that VME is good for TGDI engines. I see they have high Noack levels and VII.
As I mentioned in the other thread, Valvoline Modern Engine seems to have less ash than Valvoline Advanced Synthetic's 0.97%, which should help reduce the GDI intake-valve deposits (IVD).
Now I'm runing VME 5W-20 in my Hemi 5.7, and as I posted before I will OCI per OLM (10K miles) - any word of caution? Thanks
It should be good. Since you have port injection, Valvoline Advanced Synthetic's high ash content is not a cause of worry; so, it's probably a better and cheaper choice than Valvoline Modern Engine for the next OCI. They will soon change the formulations for ILSAC GF-6 though. At that point we don't know how these oils will be like. Hopefully Valvoline Advanced Synthetic will retain its low VII content, thick base oil, and low Noack.
 
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