Shearing and Royal Purple Tech response

[wgtoys]

"I know of no company that is ready and willing to share closely guarded secrets about a product that cost millions in R&D to develop"

I can understand not sharing the how-to-make-it information. I do not see what a company gains by refusing the release the detailed results of the various tests which are required to obtain API or other certifications. If they have developed a great oil it should yield great test results, so why not share them?

I was in the computer microprocessor business for quite a few years. We routinely published results of industry standard performance benchmarks as well as the results of industry standard reliability tests. Actual numeric results, not "Pass/Fail". I don't see any good reason for motor oil makers not to do the same except for a desire to shroud the facts behind a mist of marketing mumbo-jumbo.

For example, here is a good description of a standard sludge test, Sequence VG:

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/GasTests/VGtest/default.htm

Havoline just released a new oil claiming to offer improved sludge resistance. I would be very impressed if they released the actual results of the old formulation and the new formulation when tested through this sequence. But no, they just release a marketing blitz. Oil screen clogging might have gone from the maximum limit of 20% for the old formulation down to 19.9% with the new stuff and they could still claim "Improved".

Call me a PITA, but I want real data ... not marketing fluff.

There isn't public financial data for RP, Redline or Amsoil. There is for Ashland, the parent company of Valvoline. Ashland spent $68M on advertising in 2006 compared to $48M for R&D.

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/72/72503/pdfs/Ashland_2006_Annual.pdf

 

[mdocod]

we secretly hate all oils, and are trying to find one we hate the least. we hate penzoil for switching to group III, we hate mobil for switching to group III, we hate castrol and QS for using group III for years and selling it at a group IV price, we hate RP for bizarre marketing claims, we hate redline because it reveals higher wear numbers, we hate amsoil because it isn't actually good for 25,000 miles. We hate chevron because it's hard to get some of their good products, we hate supertech because it's VOAs look weak, we hate trop-arctic because it doesn't seem expensive enough, we hate motorcraft because it's associated with ford, we hate havoline because they changed their formulation a little and made a fancy new bottle and jacked up the price, we hate house brands because clerks are always telling people it's "penzoil" when it's actually usually something like warren petrol, we hate 10W40 like the plague because it's too "standard" like the answer couldn't be that easy. We hate them all for not telling us what's in the bottle, and making claims of superiority over everything else on the bottle when we all know there isn't that much difference, we hate we don't have all the answers, so we speculate at a place called bitog and have a great time!!!

I wouldn't get near this place with a 10 foot pole if I were an oil manufacture, lol. scary, we tear em up and spit em out 10 times over.

 

[johnbottilaw]

thatwouldbegreat,

Your post , makes perfect sense to me. In fact, I do not disagree with Sarge in any way at all. He is merely relating a very bad and true experience with RP. I just was merely passing on what I had heard from David at RP. Perhaps just to explain a little bit why he had the reaction he did when Sarge mentioned Bitog. In no way am I calling in to question your integrity or Sarge's or anybody's for that matter. I learn from all the posts on this board, even the ones where I think the poster is talking out of his or her rectum. I have been following the Sarge's posts because I am thinking of buying the same motor he has now at some point. I know if he says he tried such and such an oil and the results were garbage that you can take it to the bank. I believe what you say as well.

But the fact still remains that many folks at RP and RL think they are unfairly treated here, and they harbor a lot resentment toward this board. I do not suggest that any treatment received here is undeserved. I merely meant to pass on the fact that once you mention BITOG to David, be prepared for a curt reply. Because he feels that once you have been poisoned here, your opinion cannot be salvaged. That is all I meant to say. That was to explain the lack of enthusiasm he had to Sarge's questions.

 

[SargeGTO]

Please....and I reiterate...I am not "bashing" RP....nor am I "directing" folks away from RP...and I fully embrace some folks get great UOA's from RP.....I stress once again.....I am posting this experience simply to share RP's response to my personal experience with shearing and to hear their side of the story, their insight and/or thoughts. I am ready willing and able to listen to them and may even learn something from them! I was impressed with their immediate response and they are looking over the UOA I sent them and I expect I will hear more from them...I am less enthused with their "race teams use it" response as I don't really care who uses RP I wish to learn why their product performed poorly in my application. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[jonny-b]

Thatwouldbegreat, is it so that you haven't tested any of RP's products in your engine, yet?
If so, why do you care?

 

[unDummy]

RP has also been vague with me. I don't go out of my way to buy their products. Lets just say if it isn't on the dusty clearance shelf, I won't grab it.

But, I've neve seen an RP equipped vehicle have a lubrication based failure. I have no problem installing and recommending RP products.

Some of the RP VOA/UOA data doesn't match their own specs.

Shearing occurs with every brand of oil. It is user/vehicle dependent.

Post the link to where your 40wt sheared to a 20wt. I don't think I've seen too many oils drop 2 weights during a run without other variables.

I also believe that every company searches over the web. Trust me, this website is well known by the oil companies. Some companies will attack negative hearsay, bogus data, and slander. Others will learn from the online data.

 

[Auto-Union]

IT'S FREAKIN' PURPLE!!!

 

[SargeGTO]

Quote:

---

RP has also been vague with me. I don't go out of my way to buy their products. Lets just say if it isn't on the dusty clearance shelf, I won't grab it.

But, I've never seen an RP equipped vehicle have a lubrication based failure. I have no problem installing and recommending RP products.

Some of the RP VOA/UOA data doesn't match their own specs.

Shearing occurs with every brand of oil. It is user/vehicle dependent.

Post the link to where your 40wt sheared to a 20wt. I don't think I've seen too many oils drop 2 weights during a run without other variables.

I also believe that every company searches over the web. Trust me, this website is well known by the oil companies. Some companies will attack negative hearsay, bogus data, and slander. Others will learn from the online data.

---

I never said it dropped to a 20 weight. You must have me confused with somebody else...I said it dropped to a 30 weight....here is the UOA...look at the flashpoint....

It is in the UOA section under 408 Stroker....

 

[Craig in Canada]

I'd think the flashpoint would be due to the fuel dilution (0.8%)

 

[SargeGTO]

Nah...we have had much higher than that...up to 1.2 with less effect than that .08....I mean .08 isnt all that....and RP Racing Oils market specific to being able to hold up to fuel dilution anyway....I just dont see .08 as that big of a deal....

 

[unDummy]

Actually, you said it sheared to a "low 30wt". So, I had a 2-3 typo.
68.2 SUS is a very thick 30wt bordering the 40wt.
68.2 SUS is 12.47 cst using neptune.spacebears calculator.
Referencing SAE J300, 12.5cst is the cutoff for a 40wt. Get rid of the fuel and it would still be a 40wt.

Do you have a VOA on this oil for comparison?
Insolubles seem to be high for such a low mileage run. Excessive carbon/soot blowby? Engine still breaking in?

Did RP kill off 11-51wt oils for the XPR line?

 

[SargeGTO]

I agree on the SUS....no VOA...I did see an older VOA...and yes we had a small leak where the nitrous nozzle used to be on the intake tube.....we feel that is where the silicon came from as everything else checked out good and sealed...and this is with a new Amsoil cone filter....And yes the engine is breaking in...this was a 500 mile ( 15 hour) OCI......I'm not concerned about the insolubles as they can be accounted for...the flash point is the thing that sticks out to us....like I said I have had more (almost double) the fuel dilution with other "top shelf" synthetics and did not see the flash point drop like that....More UOA's and monitoring will get us to the oil we need and the viscosity...we have PP 10-30 in there right now and abusing the heck out of it.....no...my only purpose of this exercise with RP was/is to get their take on things.....thier thoughts/observations etc. As I said we have had much worse silicon/fuel levels on other synthetics that stood up much better than this....so I ask them...

 

[buster]

Sarge, when can we expect a UOA of PP? I might have asked you this already. If I did, my bad.

 

[SargeGTO]

It should be within two weeks. We have had some brutal tuning sessions and a couple of live runs on it...and throw in the drives to and from the track and I'm about ready to ship it off to Terry and let him look at it through his magic glasses

We had her running rich for break in and leaned her out quite alot....we also activated the closed loop...or should I say allowed closed loop verusus just hard tables...so she now goes into closed loop and adjust from the O2 sensors versus just fixed tables based on RPM /TP etc.....so we will probably see a big drop in the fuel.....give a couple more weeks and the PP 10-30 will be analyzed and we'll see where we are at....

 

[sprintman]

When the dealer head mechanic drains your diff and g'box oils and says it's been done recently you know Redline is good. He is the son of a workmate who asked me later why I tried to con his son into thinking the Redline oils had done 60,000kms. What could I say? RP I have no idea about but is it Grp IV/V?

 

[Challenger71]

Last oil change was with RP 5w30, switched from GC in the Cherokee. Same idle quality, noise level & overall very happy with it as compared to GC. Power levels seem to have improved throughout the powerband slightly,SOTP it's noticable. I appreciate both oils and will continue to use both...with the nod toward RP since GC supply is beginning to dwindle.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

Quote:

---

Thatwouldbegreat, is it so that you haven't tested any of RP's products in your engine, yet?
If so, why do you care?

---

I was willing and interested in trying RP in some engines...until RP blew me off.

I like to know a product is good, bad, a bargain, or overpriced. I try to keep an open mind, since BITOG has shown me that there are lots of good oils.

 

[Mokanic]

Quote:

---

thatwouldbegreat,

Your post , makes perfect sense to me. In fact, I do not disagree with Sarge in any way at all. He is merely relating a very bad and true experience with RP. I just was merely passing on what I had heard from David at RP. Perhaps just to explain a little bit why he had the reaction he did when Sarge mentioned Bitog. In no way am I calling in to question your integrity or Sarge's or anybody's for that matter. I learn from all the posts on this board, even the ones where I think the poster is talking out of his or her rectum. I have been following the Sarge's posts because I am thinking of buying the same motor he has now at some point. I know if he says he tried such and such an oil and the results were garbage that you can take it to the bank. I believe what you say as well.

But the fact still remains that many folks at RP and RL think they are unfairly treated here, and they harbor a lot resentment toward this board. I do not suggest that any treatment received here is undeserved. I merely meant to pass on the fact that once you mention BITOG to David, be prepared for a curt reply. Because he feels that once you have been poisoned here, your opinion cannot be salvaged. That is all I meant to say. That was to explain the lack of enthusiasm he had to Sarge's questions.

---

I assure you David would have no problem answering straitforward questions about their products on this site.
What happens many times from certain ones is that they will ask a question such as Is you product pao based? He would respond with something like yes, it is PAO based with enough dino for the add package. Then the accusations start getting hurled. Well, if you call the average man a liar,especially if he has any amount of character, he probably won't waste much more time with you. Certainly, not all take that approach here but if you have made up your mind a rep is nothing but a liar it's pointless to ask him anything anyway. I have gone back reading posts from several years ago and you'll find individuals that would argue with Terry about the results he had gained from some oil he had tested and their expertise had nothing to do with oil. It would kinda be like me trying to correct Pablo on some Amsoil related subject. Some folks aren't looking for facts as much as they are winning an arguement.
I just realized we are talking about motor oil... It's time to log off and try to make a dollar.

 

[SargeGTO]

For the record David is not the person answering on behalf of RP. FWIW.