Shaeffer Oil beats others for my Honda 1.5 TDI 2018 Earth Dreams Engine......

Easy with the thin skin, don't post if you don't want feedback, that's the whole purpose of a forum. You provided an anecdote, people here questioned it, that's how this works. While it seems you are clearly unsatisfied with the exchange, I would suggest taking a breather and considering the below with a more levelled temper.

If, on the other hand, you want to actually have a discussion, then let's have one!

An oil won't solve a mechanical issue. Yes, better oils can decrease wear (per your 3rd party turbine observations). Better oils can result in things running cleaner. Better oils can do many things, but they can't stop mechanical issues.

Some examples:
- An oil can't prevent a defective lifter from failing
- An oil can't reduce enrichment level
- An oil cannot reduce IVD's once they are formed (but oil formulation can have an impact on IVD formation initially)
- An oil cannot prevent a lean condition
- An oil cannot stop fuel dilution as the result of an overly rich mixture or direct injection, particularly under boost

It's that last one you claim to have cured.

Provided an engine is well maintained (which it sounds like yours is), oil selection isn't going to dramatically alter ring seal or reduce fuel blowing by the rings in a direct injection application, this is because these are mechanical issues, the result of over-enrichment and the poor atomization obtained using DI, compounded by a pressurized air charge. While oil chemistry can impact LSPI, it isn't going to result in the amount of fuel being injected changing or significantly reduce how much gets by the rings due to boost and DI spray patterns.

That's WHY these questions and observations are being raised.

If you were to properly evaluate this, you cannot simply go by oil level or colour. You'd have to test, under identical driving conditions, both lubricants over a few OCI's and send those samples off to a lab that uses GC to get a proper measure of the amount of fuel making its way into the oil. That would tell you if the lube choice is having any impact on the amount of fuel making its way into the sump.

More oil or lighter fractions flashing off can, as I pointed out, make it appear as though the oil level isn't rising. @ARCOgraphite recently had a situation where all of a sudden his oil level dropped considerably, even though it had been "staying full". This was also in a TGDI engine. The result? He had made a long drive and it was fuel dilution that had kept the oil level steady and this evaporated when he got the oil hotter by modifying how the car was driven.

There are simply insufficient controls in place and data presented here to support the claim that the selection of what went in the sump has impacted the amount of fuel dilution happening.

This might not be the type of feedback you were looking for, but that's typically the type of feedback you are going to get here. While a nice "atta boy!" might have been more in-line with your expectations, the idea is that constructive feedback as to how to better evaluate what you think you experienced and to aide in producing substantiative data going forward is ultimately more beneficial.
 
First post ever: This niche brand oil is so awesome! It cured my fuel dilution problem! Can I prove it? Trust my nose!

Call me... incredulous.
OK... You are incredulous. Nothing wrong with that. Can I prove anything to you? I bet I can not. Trust my nose + trust myself and the mechanics I have worked with. My service manager friends I have know for years. Ones who have advised me and helped me keep many cars running fine for thousands of miles. Sorry to break some unwritten law of the forums. Truly apologize for my out of line arrogance to actually say that I have not only recently found, like and am using one of those hated "boutique / niche oil brands!" I also let it slip that I have used Amsoil for years. Whoa.... way out of line too I suppose. Can I prove it has had a positive effect on my vehicle to anyone? Probably could not if some were with me, watched, inspected and used my car. I am not advising anyone to use my latest found, (outrageous) boutique oil. I posted here to get some constructive discussions from folks who I figured share my passion for automobiles and general machinery. I was interested in the experiences of others. Must be in the wrong place cause all I have gotten from all but one person has been stuff like "how dare he?" "yeah right , prove it!" "don't be ridiculous!" "as if an oil can have a positive effect..." "did you put your oil thru a Gas Chromatograph in a lab to document what you are trying to make us believe?" "you will get no "atta boys here Mr thin skin , these forums are for slap back replies.." etc..... Not looking for "atta boys" or to prove anyone wrong or right. Simply opened up for some tales from other "car guys" experiences while sharing one of mine. Apparently the wrong place. Why do folks seem so angry on some of these threads if a person mentions using a different product than an other's preference? Are there too many incognito oil sales men lurking here for purposes other than discussions and sharing?
 
I posted something regarding oil dilution on another thread but that was quite a while ago, and I can't remember if it was on BITOG or the HondaOwnersClubForum.

Anyhow, I once had a conversation with an elderly gentleman who at one time was an aircraft mechanic in WWII while stationed in Alaska. And he said that in those conditions they use to dilute the aircraft engine oil with gasoline to make them thin enough for the cold Alaska temperatures so the engines could be started. And I also know that those aircraft had a large onboard oil tank to add oil to the engine inflight to keep enough in the engine to make up for the inflight losses. I do not recall the exact size of those make up oil tanks but believe a large 4 engine aircraft might very will have had a make up oil tank of something around 55 gallons. So it is possible that they could of thinned the oil in the engine for starting and then added un-thinned oil to those engines while in flight.

But the moral of the story is that thinning an oil with gasoline has been around for a very long time. And it was not something that caused a problem. It was used to solve a problem, though the oil was thicker back then than what we are using now, and the temperatures were colder.
 
Love those Fire Bird Formula cars from the 70s all the way thru the late 80s... After selling my last Chevelle two years ago I was close to going after a clean "survivor or re-built" 77 thru 89 Fire Bird to use as a daily driver. Then at 64 yrs old, the increasing health issues brought me back to my senses. Hence I would still have one of my Chevelles. Just can't seem to stay off the classic car sales web sites trolling Pontiacs / Buicks and Chevy muscle cars... A few favorites of mine are the Buick Gran Sports, the Chevy Chevelle line, Ford / Mercury Torino Cobra & Cyclone Spoilers. One of my all time favorites is the Pontiac (one year only) 1977 Can Am LeMans Sport Coupes. I love ALL brands though. Not one of those "my brand is better than yours!" guys... Love all the old, real American steel this country created from the 60s thru 90s. A dead / dying American art form. Especially the late 70s Mopars which sell today for incredible "unobtainium prices."
I like taking my FORMULA to some local car shows not only to show my car but to see all of the other beautiful cars/vehicles that people have. I've met some great folks at these shows and l love hearing the stories behind their rides. Heres a recent pic of my Firebird FORMULA from a local show.

 
...Must be in the wrong place cause all I have gotten from all but one person has been stuff like "how dare he?" "yeah right , prove it!" "don't be ridiculous!" "as if an oil can have a positive effect..." "did you put your oil thru a Gas Chromatograph in a lab to document what you are trying to make us believe?" "you will get no "atta boys here Mr thin skin , these forums are for slap back replies.." etc..... Not looking for "atta boys" or to prove anyone wrong or right. Simply opened up for some tales froyour m other "car guys" experiences while sharing one of mine. Apparently the wrong place. Why do folks seem so angry on some of these threads if a person mentions using a different product than an other's preference? Are there too many incognito oil sales men lurking here for purposes other than discussions and sharing?
This thread started with one person's experience with Schaeffer's oil and Amsoil with regard to LSPI and fuel dilution.

But your accusations of angry people people here on BITOG is without foundation. Your strawman conspiracy theory that oil sales people limit topics is also unfounded.

Since you broached the topics, people are asking you to explain how Shaeffer oil had stopped the LSPI and fuel dilution problem in your 2018 turbo and you have not addressed that.

No doubt Schaeffer Oil makes good products but an explanation of how you know it stopped LSPI and fuel dilution would contribute to the ongoing technical exchange here at BITOG.

So instead of throwing out unfounded hollow accusations and making up conspiracy theories, maybe you can give us a technical explanation of how any one oil can stop LSPI and fuel dilution.
 
So, the oil itself stopped fuel dilution?

Truly amazing.

No chance, I suppose, that the change of oil took place in a test that controlled for other variables; average trip length, idle time, seasonal temperature variation, driving style, or any other factor that might have an influence on fuel dilution?

No chance, I suppose, that an oil analysis, beyond smell and color, took place to validate this ?
Thank you for that clear eyed response. "miraculous change" too good to be true
 
OK... You are incredulous. Nothing wrong with that. Can I prove anything to you? I bet I can not. Trust my nose + trust myself and the mechanics I have worked with. My service manager friends I have know for years. Ones who have advised me and helped me keep many cars running fine for thousands of miles. Sorry to break some unwritten law of the forums. Truly apologize for my out of line arrogance to actually say that I have not only recently found, like and am using one of those hated "boutique / niche oil brands!" I also let it slip that I have used Amsoil for years. Whoa.... way out of line too I suppose. Can I prove it has had a positive effect on my vehicle to anyone? Probably could not if some were with me, watched, inspected and used my car. I am not advising anyone to use my latest found, (outrageous) boutique oil. I posted here to get some constructive discussions from folks who I figured share my passion for automobiles and general machinery. I was interested in the experiences of others. Must be in the wrong place cause all I have gotten from all but one person has been stuff like "how dare he?" "yeah right , prove it!" "don't be ridiculous!" "as if an oil can have a positive effect..." "did you put your oil thru a Gas Chromatograph in a lab to document what you are trying to make us believe?" "you will get no "atta boys here Mr thin skin , these forums are for slap back replies.." etc..... Not looking for "atta boys" or to prove anyone wrong or right. Simply opened up for some tales from other "car guys" experiences while sharing one of mine. Apparently the wrong place. Why do folks seem so angry on some of these threads if a person mentions using a different product than an other's preference? Are there too many incognito oil sales men lurking here for purposes other than discussions and sharing?
This thread started with one person's experience with Schaeffer's oil and Amsoil with regard to LSPI and fuel dilution.

But your accusations of angry people people here on BITOG is without foundation. Your strawman conspiracy theory that oil sales people limit topics is also unfounded.

Since you broached the topics, people are asking you to explain how Shaeffer oil had stopped the LSPI and fuel dilution problem in your 2018 turbo and you have not addressed that.

No doubt Schaeffer Oil makes good products but an explanation of how you know it stopped LSPI and fuel dilution would contribute to the ongoing technical exchange here at BITOG.

So instead of throwing out unfounded hollow accusations and making up conspiracy theories, maybe you can give us a technical explanation of how any one oil can stop LSPI and fuel dilution.
Mola, I think you (and several others) are a little off base here. Science, and scientific method, involves observing phenomena and establishing a repeatable experiment. OP has stated that he has observed that a certain set of test conditions has resulted in consistent change in observed results.

Repeated demands from membership that OP prove his results, or explain how they occurred, or that it's impossible for this to occur, are ridiculous. Yes, there is likely a reason for OP's vehicle not using (any or as much) oil during an OCI due to the change to a different brand, and it should be seen as a challenge to the membership to research and find out why, rather than demand that OP prove what he has observed.

People didn't demand that Tesla show why his electrical marvels worked, they saw a repeatable experiment and grew from that. Same with a host of other technologies and experiments that people have been exposed to over the years. To go far afield, people probably poo-pooed the reports that the Wright Brothers had flown, or that a vaccine for polio had been discovered, and scoffed that it was impossible. Rather than say OP is full of it, perhaps minds should be opened to the possibility that perhaps OP is on to something. Rather than try to tear down what OP is saying (in the bitog way that has become all to prevalent), perhaps membership should be investigating just why this occurred and doing experiments of their own...is it a fluke, or is it repeatable by everyone?

Too many people hiding behind the internet and demanding things.

Sammy, nice post and calling a spade a spade is something that needs to be seen more around here and in today's world. But I must agree that a UOA would go a very long way in supporting your observations; without the factual report of your oil's condition there is plenty of room for speculation.


Edit: and Mola, as far as the technical explanation of how an oil can stop LSPI, that's your territory. There's any number of oils specifically formulated to do so, as has been beaten to death here the last couple of years. Fuel dilution? Sorry, I can't help there but someone else has the knowledge. Hopefully they'll post in a constructive manner.
 
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The OP claims that the oil stopped fuel dilution.

That’s quite a claim. Miraculous, really, that a mechanical problem was fixed by oil.

Claims require some evidence beyond “color” and “nose”, particularly when they are miraculous.

Factors that would affect the degree of fuel dilution, mentioned in my first post on this topic, were not mentioned. So, the attribution of the cure to the oil change, when it could be a change in operating conditions, is specious without some examination of those conditions.

Which the OP has, thus far, refused to consider.

Some discussion of the operating conditions, and an analysis beyond smell and color, is a simple, reasonable request if the miraculous claim is to be believed.

Nothing ridiculous about questioning the post, or its claims.
 
Playing the devils advocate, the only possibility I can think of is that the oil used somehow loosened sticking rings preventing a slightly over rich cold fuel mixture that was possibly washing the cylinder walls down from reaching the sump oil. It is a stretch I admit especially since he previously used Amsoil if I understand all this correctly.
Some early ecm/injectors (post cold start valve era) ran way too long ms that really flooded the engine cold pushing the oil level up the stick, nothing other than reprogramming would address this.
 
If they made an off the shelf oil that actually stopped fuel dilution and LSPI hordes of us turbocharged hamster powered engine owners would descend on it like birds of prey. If it cleaned IVDs at the same time it'd be some companies out of business.
 
Long / long time Honda Accord buyer (4th owned since 1997) and have 2 now. Since 2002 have always owned 2 at same time like now. Mine is 2009 Accord EXL (2.0 vetch engine) 167,000 mi, and wife has the 2018 Accord EXL (1.5 TDI engine) 65,000 mi. Been using Amsoil EX 5w20 in 2009 since day one. Started with Amsoil Signature 0w20 due to Honda TDI engine LSPI issues. Amsoil Signature is the highest rated preventive oil for the LSPI issues I could find. Used it and found that it turned dark really fast in the turbo (which is normal for a lot of oils in turbo service) but looked to change due to fuel in oil and rising level on dipstick. Never had used Shaeffer oil.
Switched to Shaeffer Supreme 9000 0w20 after reading about the company and oil make up. Ran Shaeffer thru a quick 3000mi session, drained and replaced filter and could see right away the oil was clearing up and level had stopped rising due to fuel getting into the oil. Did a 2nd 3000mi run. Oil looked so much better that I am now at 5500 miles and it is staying cleaner looking and no fuel detected thru rising dipstick level or gasoline smell when checking oil. I am going to stick with 0w20 Shaeffer 9000 Supreme oil for the 2018 Accord TDI engine and stay with my long time pattern of Amsoil EX 5w20 in the 2009 Accord 2.0 vtech engine. Neither of these oils are a problem for me to acquire. Order direct from both companies. Don't know why so many folks complain they cannot access these oils. If the Shaeffer oil had not stopped the LSPI / fuel in oil problem in the 2018 turbo I was all ready to trade it in. We like all the new design features of that Accord so we will keep it now.

I’m not exactly sure how a specific brand cures fuel dilution but hey.
I would ALWAYS have fuel dilution even in the summer no matter what oil I would use EXCEPT Redline Performance (Ester) 5w-30 Euro and I had no oil level gain (almost zero), but some in deep Minnesota winter. You have all piled on me on this claim. The claim is 100% accurate and I could give a rats ars if you don't think so. I watch my oil 2 times a week and have testing. Smelling is not a test, my oil always smells like fuel, oil gaining it's level is and fuel dilution tests are how I gauge it. I just care about my level rise. Then I put on a Stage 2 tune and fuel dilution is now back with Redline, but that's normal with an overly rich Stage 2 tune. Again, no need to fear fuel dilution even at a semi high level. No wear increase even with an over 5% fuel dilution on my car. A turbo car pushed to the limit daily.
 
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There’s really not much of a mechanism for an oil brand to cure fuel dilution. But if you believe it did for your issue then that’s all that matters I suppose.
The only deviation with all the other oils are, they did not contain high Ester. My thinking is the Ester is sealing my rings better, the Stage 2 is flooding the cylinder to a point of critical mass.
 
Right. I am no scientist but know that oil and gas companies spend much time / money and research and development into creating their products they need us to buy and use. The answers may lay in the so called proprietary "additives" they put into their oils and fuels for very specific reasons.
Certain combinations of additives and base oils can help to reduce the wear potential when fuel dilution is present, and have been incorporated in formulated oils, but no oil can "stop" fuel dilution.

As others have commented, fuel system (injector) programming (in the ECU), short trip driving, excessive idling, and some other factors can contribute to fuel dilution, but no oil can stop a situation that is attributed to conditions outside the purview of the oil.

LSPI has been discussed many times here and was attributed to ash deposits, mostly calcium deposits from the detergent chemistry, so new calcium detergents were developed, accompanied by a subsequent lowering of the detergent levels and the detergent/dispersant ratios.
 
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OK... You are incredulous. Nothing wrong with that. Can I prove anything to you? I bet I can not. Trust my nose + trust myself and the mechanics I have worked with. My service manager friends I have know for years. Ones who have advised me and helped me keep many cars running fine for thousands of miles. Sorry to break some unwritten law of the forums. Truly apologize for my out of line arrogance to actually say that I have not only recently found, like and am using one of those hated "boutique / niche oil brands!"
Nobody is coming down on you for using Shaeffers, which by all accounts, makes excellent lubricants and many members use with confidence. You are taking this far too personally.
I also let it slip that I have used Amsoil for years. Whoa.... way out of line too I suppose.
Lots of people on here use AMSOIL as well. Their oils are well regarded.
Can I prove it has had a positive effect on my vehicle to anyone? Probably could not if some were with me, watched, inspected and used my car. I am not advising anyone to use my latest found, (outrageous) boutique oil. I posted here to get some constructive discussions from folks who I figured share my passion for automobiles and general machinery.
You got a discussion, but it was around the methodology employed and the lack of sufficient controls and means to evaluate what you feel took place. This is clearly not what you were expecting, but laying on the hyperbole pretty thick isn't going to improve this.
I was interested in the experiences of others. Must be in the wrong place cause all I have gotten from all but one person has been stuff like "how dare he?" "yeah right , prove it!" "don't be ridiculous!" "as if an oil can have a positive effect..." "did you put your oil thru a Gas Chromatograph in a lab to document what you are trying to make us believe?" "you will get no "atta boys here Mr thin skin , these forums are for slap back replies.." etc.....
You were, mostly politely, questioned on the observations along with some factual interjections on the nature of fuel dilution, the cause, and why changing oil brands cannot have the impact you feel it has. Yes, I suggested you get a UOA that includes fuel dilution measured via GC, that's a common request on here and it would tell you, definitively, if the level of fuel in the oil changed. That, being tracked, over a few OCI's would tell you if the oil is somehow impacting that figure. Of course this would have to be done with both oils.

A conventional Blackstone analysis isn't sufficient, since they don't directly measure fuel content, it's inferred from flashpoint.
Not looking for "atta boys" or to prove anyone wrong or right. Simply opened up for some tales from other "car guys" experiences while sharing one of mine. Apparently the wrong place. Why do folks seem so angry on some of these threads if a person mentions using a different product than an other's preference? Are there too many incognito oil sales men lurking here for purposes other than discussions and sharing?
Nobody is angry! This is how technical discussions go on here. Most aren't looking for stories on how buddy's 87 Camaro ran 10's with a tire and a tune-up or how they took a deer at 1,000 yards with an SKS and iron sights. I remember being a member of a forum (not this one) back in the early 2000's and a guy was talking about walking a McLaren F1 from a roll with an S2000 "once the VTEC kicked in". Lore and tales aren't really what this board is about, though we do have the General and Off-topic section for more casual discourse.

You posted in a technical part of the forum (Passenger Car Motor Oils) so the nature of the responses you received focused on the technical merit of the claim. Don't take it so personally, use it as an opportunity to engage in a productive debate. At least you've been advised as to what would constitute substantiative proof of the phenomenon, now it's on you as to whether you care sufficiently to proceed with that process or just leave it.
 
Playing the devils advocate, the only possibility I can think of is that the oil used somehow loosened sticking rings preventing a slightly over rich cold fuel mixture that was possibly washing the cylinder walls down from reaching the sump oil. It is a stretch I admit especially since he previously used Amsoil if I understand all this correctly.
Some early ecm/injectors (post cold start valve era) ran way too long ms that really flooded the engine cold pushing the oil level up the stick, nothing other than reprogramming would address this.
Best post in the tread(y)

I wonder if the add pack in Shaeffer's created the "perfect ring seal" making the engine run more efficiently? Heck, this is just a layman's hunch here:)
 
Mola, I think you (and several others) are a little off base here. Science, and scientific method, involves observing phenomena and establishing a repeatable experiment. OP has stated that he has observed that a certain set of test conditions has resulted in consistent change in observed results.

Repeated demands from membership that OP prove his results, or explain how they occurred, or that it's impossible for this to occur, are ridiculous. Yes, there is likely a reason for OP's vehicle not using (any or as much) oil during an OCI due to the change to a different brand, and it should be seen as a challenge to the membership to research and find out why, rather than demand that OP prove what he has observed....
It is only the OP that is claiming Amsoil and Schaeffer's Oil stops LSPI and Fuel dilution.

No one else here in the membership is claiming Amsoil and Schaeffer's Oil stops LSPI and Fuel dilution.

I and anyone else on BITOG have the right to ask for a technical explanation when a claim or assertion is made and many people have done that.

If the OP doesn't know and has no technical explanation fine, but say so with something like, "I have no technical reason, this is just my opinion and or casual observation." Or, "I am simply speculating here with respect to cause-and-effect."

But the OP didn't do that.
 
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