Sewer clog between street trap and house

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
We have two large maples that are on either side of where the pipe goes. It wouldn't surprise me if roots are part of the issue, but I'm sure there are "flushable" cloth diaper liners that caused this, as my wife just flushed one this am and then this happened. We don't flush wipes.

The pipe has had a 90-ish year run, and it's part of the situation of having established landscaping and trees. We're ok with it, a slight pain but manageable and no big deal.

We've had friends that have had to re- do leach fields on the septics of pretty new homes, so I think what we're dealing with at this point is ok, whatever it is.

We have thought about redoing our driveway with pavers and aggregate concrete, and part of the pipe goes underneath. Might be a good excuse - have to look on the bright side...


I wouldbt be so quick to blame the wipes or liners.

They probably dont help but roots are a big PITA

usually what happens is your roots make a giant net in the pipe then anything will eventually clog it.. including turds... which are eminently flush-able

So glad my new house has NO trees in the front yard. Neighbor has 2 but they arent too big or close.

Old place I lived had had a GIANT Oak tree.. we had the plumber out yearly to cut out the roots.

 

[GeaugaFletcher]

Call the plumber, they'll bring out the big snake and fix it up. If there are roots now and you don't plan to replace the pipe, just plan on calling the plumber annually to clear it out. No big deal.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Rent a power auger to clean out the existing roots and other mess. Then have a qualified plumbing company come in and reline the existing sewer line. That will provide a new, smooth interior surface, prevent further root invasion, and last another 90 years or so.


Thanks that sounds perfect and the plan. I'm having the local plumber that we have a history with from our furnace install come first thing tomorrow to chart the path forward. Today was a beach day so we gave up after trying the other units - tomorrow's another day.

I still need to figure out how to get the auger into the pipe from my fresh air street connection, but that will come.

Thanks!

 

[mattwithcats]

Need one of those powered drain augers with a flexible steel rod as thick as your finger, make sure there is a cutting tool on the end, (curly saw blade), and that the saw blade is securely fastened...

Rental is the best way...

Turn on machine, slowly feed in, the wires making up the steel rod will advance it if it has to go around a curve.
Soap helps...

Go all the way to end or street...
Run a lot of water as you remove it to clean the wire...

 

[Donald]

Why are there roots in a sealed sewer line?

 

[JHZR2]

Wy not? Well established neighborhood with mature trees. Each one is >20 ft away, but I'm sure the root system extends to the pipe.

Pipe is likely terracotta, otherwise cast iron, as was in the house.

These things are known to happen.

Pulled a small network of roots, kind of reminded me of capillaries, all small, none woody. We're assuming that roots are the cause, and with good basis. We will see as I investigate.

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Why are there roots in a sealed sewer line?


The simple answer is that it's not sealed. It was, at least theoretically, at some point in the past, but corrosion, and/or earth movement have taken their toll. What commonly happens is that water begins to leak out, and eventually (or even right away) the water touches a root. The root follows the water into the pipe, and branches out inside the pipe. Roots can expand and split the pipe further, causing earth to flow in and completely block the pipe. At that point, there is no solution except to dig it up.

What I believe JHZR2 is experiencing is that a large web of roots have developed in the pipe. Clear water will commonly flow right through, but clear water isn't what goes down our toilets. Even partially dissolved toilet paper will catch in the roots, and like an oil filter, as the particulate matter increases, the "pores" in the obstruction become more restrictive, until you have a solid clog.

JHZR2 has several options. I suggested clearing the roots and adding a root killer. This will work well if the pipe is not badly damaged. Sending a camera in after the snake work has been done can show the interior condition of the pipe, but will cost at least $200, at least where I live. JHZR2 can also find a way of measuring the distance to the clog and begin excavating there to make repairs. Most cameras also contain locating devices, and if a camera is sent down, an exact location can be ascertained. Or, as Pop_Rivit has suggested, re-line the pipe. I would point out that re-lining is a good option if there is a good reason (such as expensive decorative concrete, landscaping, etc.) not to excavate, and the sewer pipe is in good enough mechanical shape to continue to support the load that it is carrying. Re-lining is a repair, not a replacement. Sometimes it's the best option, sometimes it isn't.

 

[WhyMe]

get it scoped to see whats in there. could be roots, a collapsed pipe,etc.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Rent a power auger to clean out the existing roots and other mess. Then have a qualified plumbing company come in and reline the existing sewer line. That will provide a new, smooth interior surface, prevent further root invasion, and last another 90 years or so.


This is the best advice.

I managed to clog the large cast iron line coming out of our basement (I don't remember what with) and rented the power auger from Home Depot and was able to remove it. When dealing with roots or any other discernible breach of the pipe, you really need to get it fixed. A re-line is a reliable method of doing this and prevents you from having to dig up your lawn.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Rent a power auger to clean out the existing roots and other mess. Then have a qualified plumbing company come in and reline the existing sewer line. That will provide a new, smooth interior surface, prevent further root invasion, and last another 90 years or so.


This is the best advice.

I managed to clog the large cast iron line coming out of our basement (I don't remember what with) and rented the power auger from Home Depot and was able to remove it. When dealing with roots or any other discernible breach of the pipe, you really need to get it fixed. A re-line is a reliable method of doing this and prevents you from having to dig up your lawn.

You've gotta fix the problem causing the problem first. No liner on the planet is going to stop the tree roots from breaching the pipe again.
We had this issue at my parents house. We ended up having to cut down the offending trees in front of the house.
No matter how to stop the root intrusion it needs to be addressed before fixing the pipe.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Rent a power auger to clean out the existing roots and other mess. Then have a qualified plumbing company come in and reline the existing sewer line. That will provide a new, smooth interior surface, prevent further root invasion, and last another 90 years or so.


This is the best advice.

I managed to clog the large cast iron line coming out of our basement (I don't remember what with) and rented the power auger from Home Depot and was able to remove it. When dealing with roots or any other discernible breach of the pipe, you really need to get it fixed. A re-line is a reliable method of doing this and prevents you from having to dig up your lawn.

You've gotta fix the problem causing the problem first. No liner on the planet is going to stop the tree roots from breaching the pipe again.
We had this issue at my parents house. We ended up having to cut down the offending trees in front of the house.
No matter how to stop the root intrusion it needs to be addressed before fixing the pipe.


If you kill the roots (and remove them) and then re-line the pipe, you should be good. New roots won't detect the water in the pipe and since there is no breach for them to penetrate, you are good to go. However, if you don't COMPLETELY eliminate the breach, then yes, they will of course come back. If you re-line with root material still peeping into the pipe, it will just continue to grow, fracture the liner and re-lining was a waste of time at that point. The pipe needs to be completely free of roots (dead and removed) before the re-line, otherwise you've accomplished nothing.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

You've gotta fix the problem causing the problem first. No liner on the planet is going to stop the tree roots from breaching the pipe again.


That's a load of nonsense.

Using a CIPP system mean you end up with a seamless liner the entire distance of the pipe. Roots can't penetrate a seamless liner, and since the inner walls are smooth deposits can't adhere to it. It also has the advantage of being somewhat flexible; if the original pipe shifts because of earth movement, the liner maintains it's integrity.

The original pipe has to be first cleared and jetted, then the new liner is pulled through and epoxied in place.

 

[JHZR2]

So started simple... Got the auger/cutter in from the street (street traps are pretty tough to get into the way they're set up here), pulled the clog. It was a little bit of roots with some more of the "flushable" cloth diaper liners.

Oh well...

So chased that and could see that the pipe is fine (for now at least), just ingress at one of the 6" terracotta pipe joints. Pretty minor actually.

So I'm going to wait on a jet or anything for now. The reason why is that we're considering putting in a paver driveway, and that would be a good time to excavate and put in 6" PVC to the street. So why spend a ton now to fix more rigorously, just to replace, which is probably a smart move regardless, in 6 mo-a year. Since spring and fall are growth times, I may consider a hydrojet in the fall after letting root x do its job.

Love the idea of a re-line so will do more reading. If that's better than PVC for some reason,mother I may still go that route. But everything is flowing beautifully now, we won't be flushing those liners, and I'll apply root x in the time being too...

For now I've bought time to make a reasonable best decision considering landscaping plans and other things, and I have at least a little time.

Thanks!

 

[Stelth]

I hope you'll keep us posted on your progress with this.

And regarding "flushable" products, many things are flushable if the drains and sewer are in good shape, and if all the drains are going downhill, and if the pipes are reasonably smooth inside. That's a lot of conditions. Once you add some roots to the equation, things change.

If the clay pipe is solid, re-lining would probably work fine. Not sure what sort of pipe it actually is, but vitrified clay doesn't really "wear out." Sometimes, as you've found out, it leaks at the joints, and earth movement will break it, since it doesn't flex at all, but otherwise, it's enormously strong. If it were mine, and not too deep, I'd replace it with plastic when the other work is being done, but it's not mine, it's yours.

Whatever happens, let us know. Sounds like it might be a while, though.