Semi-disturbing find in attic (electrical wiring)

[Owen Lucas]

Had the HVAC guy over to quote ductless ceiling mounted air units for the upstairs bedrooms. When I went to close the access panel I noticed the junction box had bare wires in it. Sure enough, they were live! The junction is right over the access panel and IDK if this was intended for a light or smoke detector? What do you think? If a tree fell on the roof, with sufficient vibration or deformation, these wires could touch and that insulation would have caught fire very quickly.

Should I be concerned about the condition of these wires? These appear to be burn marks to me and the one electrical wires appears very twisted. What do you think?

Here's a pic of the attic, house built in 98 IIRC. I'm no contractor but the stacked plywood connecting to the roof joists doesn't seem very professional to me. At least they didn't skimp on insulation lol.

 

[factorytuned2012]

you did good capping off the wires if they ever touched it would have tripped the breaker were these wires constantly hot or only with the attic lights switched on? are they actual burn marks? a lot of attic wiring gets mold or tar like substance from shingles or tar paper. looks like two separate wire feeds the round box has 14/2 the rounded cable looks like old 12 wire before the jacket went to yellow.

 

[Pablo]

Just put a cover on and call it good

A dead short should have tripped the breaker

 

[Owen Lucas]

you did good capping off the wires if they ever touched it would have tripped the breaker were these wires constantly hot or only with the attic lights switched on?

Just put a cover on and call it good

A dead short should have tripped the breaker

Good to know the breaker would have tripped. I'll throw a cap on the box.

are they actual burn marks? a lot of attic wiring gets mold or tar like substance from shingles or tar paper. looks like two separate wire feeds the round box has 14/2 the rounded cable looks like old 12 wire before the jacket went to yellow.

I can't tell if they are burn marks, good theory about tar or mold. There is no reason it should have happened in situ so possibly mishandling before installation. There are no lights in the attic, not that I could tell. I guess this was an attempt at lighting that was never followed through.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Good to know the breaker would have tripped. I'll throw a cap on the box.


I can't tell if they are burn marks, good theory about tar or mold. There is no reason it should have happened in situ so possibly mishandling before installation. There are no lights in the attic, not that I could tell. I guess this was an attempt at lighting that was never followed through.

you could always install a fixture like this so you could have an attic light source

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerc...ens-7W-Bright-White-4000K-564211411/323113102

 

[eljefino]

Those marks on the insulation are probably mold, I've seen them all over the place.

Are you 4-imprint certain those bare wires carried a current? Those frisker-sniffer things can get fooled by inductive pickup, that is, those wires could have been in the same box as a live wire. Regardless it was prudent to cap them off in case they became live in the future.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Those marks on the insulation are probably mold, I've seen them all over the place.

Are you 4-imprint certain those bare wires carried a current? Those frisker-sniffer things can get fooled by inductive pickup, that is, those wires could have been in the same box as a live wire. Regardless it was prudent to cap them off in case they became live in the future.

Mold is not something I want to hear but that's better than electrical burns.

The voltage detector did not activate after I turned that breaker off, so it probably was live. I agree though, you cant trust these voltage detector pens. I've seen them detect voltage when you drag them across a random surface like a shirt.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Mold is not something I want to hear but that's better than electrical burns.

The voltage detector did not activate after I turned that breaker off, so it probably was live. I agree though, you cant trust these voltage detector pens. I've seen them detect voltage when you drag them across a random surface like a shirt.

nickname the Widowmaker that's what we call them in the electrical trade

 

[Jetronic]

Mold is not something I want to hear but that's better than electrical burns.

The voltage detector did not activate after I turned that breaker off, so it probably was live. I agree though, you cant trust these voltage detector pens. I've seen them detect voltage when you drag them across a random surface like a shirt.

well, if you drag them across a shirt, you likely ARE creating a voltage differential. I got some shirts that cause sparks when I take them off. Makes for quite the light show.

 

[Lubener]

There's a lot of sloppy electrical work done. When I bought my house, I replaced all the worn out outlets. I discovered in many boxes, the wire nuts had fallen off, exposing the bare wires. If it weren't for the plastic boxes, the wires would have surely shorted.

 

[KevinMalone]

Here's a pic of the attic, house built in 98 IIRC. I'm no contractor but the stacked plywood connecting to the roof joists doesn't seem very professional to me. At least they didn't skimp on insulation lol.

The plywood functions as a web stiffener and is required for the hangers

 

[Owen Lucas]

There's a lot of sloppy electrical work done. When I bought my house, I replaced all the worn out outlets. I discovered in many boxes, the wire nuts had fallen off, exposing the bare wires. If it weren't for the plastic boxes, the wires would have surely shorted.

I'm upgrading all of the outlets and switches to the modern decora design. I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary but that is definitely a good idea to double check everything. I hope the attic wiring is an isolated case, maybe the electricians decided to send the new guy into the cramped attic.

The plywood functions as a web stiffener and is required for the hangers

Awesome, thank you! I'm glad the roof trusses are installed correctly.

 

[Donald]

Had the HVAC guy over to quote ductless ceiling mounted air units for the upstairs bedrooms. When I went to close the access panel I noticed the junction box had bare wires in it. Sure enough, they were live! The junction is right over the access panel and IDK if this was intended for a light or smoke detector? What do you think? If a tree fell on the roof, with sufficient vibration or deformation, these wires could touch and that insulation would have caught fire very quickly.

View attachment 273030

View attachment 273029

Should I be concerned about the condition of these wires? These appear to be burn marks to me and the one electrical wires appears very twisted. What do you think?

View attachment 273031

View attachment 273032

Here's a pic of the attic, house built in 98 IIRC. I'm no contractor but the stacked plywood connecting to the roof joists doesn't seem very professional to me. At least they didn't skimp on insulation lol.

View attachment 273033View attachment 273034

There was a YT video of a home pre insulation inspection. It would be scary to buy the house in question.

The worst was the inspector noticed the truss numbers did not match the truss engineering diagram. I think they were missing a truss so they just spread out all the other trusses a few inches to make up for the missing truss. Another problem was the plumber drilling a 4" hole in a 2,x6 for a pipe.

 

[Pablo]

There was a YT video of a home pre insulation inspection. It would be scary to buy the house in question.

The worst was the inspector noticed the truss numbers did not match the truss engineering diagram. I think they were missing a truss so they just spread out all the other trusses a few inches to make up for the missing truss. Another problem was the plumber drilling a 4" hole in a 2,x6 for a pipe.

No problem 5/8” or so on each side. Plenty of margin!!

 

[RhondaHonda]

Wonder if it was for a smoke detector that never got installed? Any HVAC equipment up in the attic?

 

[Owen Lucas]

Wonder if it was for a smoke detector that never got installed? Any HVAC equipment up in the attic?

No HVAC equipment, yet. I think it might have been for a light though it would have been a great spot to smash your head into a lightbulb lol.

 

[JHZR2]

Had the HVAC guy over to quote ductless ceiling mounted air units for the upstairs bedrooms.

Mold is not something I want to hear but that's better than electrical burns.

do the ceiling mount units require a condensate pump? I’d be concerned about that failure point versus a gravity system if mold is a consideration.

 

[Owen Lucas]

do the ceiling mount units require a condensate pump? I’d be concerned about that failure point versus a gravity system if mold is a consideration.

I had a second company come over and they convinced me not to go with the ceiling mounted units specifically for that reason. The condensate pumps can fail eventually and cause a mess in the attic and damage the ceiling.

Ceiling mounted units would look nice but it's not worth the risk. We are going with 2 Daiken wall mounted units.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I had a second company come over and they convinced me not to go with the ceiling mounted units specifically for that reason. The condensate pumps can fail eventually and cause a mess in the attic and damage the ceiling.

Ceiling mounted units would look nice but it's not worth the risk. We are going with 2 Daiken wall mounted units.

No reason an attic-mounted unit couldn’t be installed in one of those shower-pan bases, with the drain piped into your plumbing vent (I’d imagine, but I’m not a contractor either). I’d probably put a water sensor in the pan, because while this would save your ceiling you wouldn’t know if the condensate pump did fail.

 

[JHZR2]

No reason an attic-mounted unit couldn’t be installed in one of those shower-pan bases, with the drain piped into your plumbing vent (I’d imagine, but I’m not a contractor either). I’d probably put a water sensor in the pan, because while this would save your ceiling you wouldn’t know if the condensate pump did fail.

That’s not how the ceiling splits work…