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I thought they carried .40s&w, but found out their duty round is .357 SIG.
Secret Service carries .357 Sig?
- Thread starter LoneRanger
- Start date
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Maybe it's because they had a choice.
The Secret Service carries either a .357Sig or the FN 5.7x28. I just don't understand why they don't carry the 9mm like everyone else does.
Originally Posted By: stchman
The Secret Service carries either a .357Sig or the FN 5.7x28. I just don't understand why they don't carry the 9mm like everyone else does.
Because friends don't let friends shoot 9mm. They need a round that will stop someone. a .357Sig will turn a perp inside out just like a 10mm will. The 5.7x28 is to show off, I love mine
The Secret Service carries either a .357Sig or the FN 5.7x28. I just don't understand why they don't carry the 9mm like everyone else does.
Because friends don't let friends shoot 9mm. They need a round that will stop someone. a .357Sig will turn a perp inside out just like a 10mm will. The 5.7x28 is to show off, I love mine
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Because friends don't let friends shoot 9mm. They need a round that will stop someone. a .357Sig will turn a perp inside out just like a 10mm will. The 5.7x28 is to show off, I love mine
Wow. Fantasyland.
Because friends don't let friends shoot 9mm. They need a round that will stop someone. a .357Sig will turn a perp inside out just like a 10mm will. The 5.7x28 is to show off, I love mine
Wow. Fantasyland.
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Wow. Fantasyland.
lol...yea..my %$#*& is bigger than your's lol.
Wow. Fantasyland.
lol...yea..my %$#*& is bigger than your's lol.
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Wow. Fantasyland.
lol...yea..my %$#*& is bigger than your's lol.
or my rounds cost exponentially more than yours so they must be better rounds!
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Wow. Fantasyland.
lol...yea..my %$#*& is bigger than your's lol.
or my rounds cost exponentially more than yours so they must be better rounds!
.357 Sig penetrates barriers amazingly well for a pistol round. And it puts people down with a higher one shot percentage than about anything else.
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Because friends don't let friends shoot 9mm. They need a round that will stop someone. a .357Sig will turn a perp inside out just like a 10mm will. The 5.7x28 is to show off, I love mine
Wow. Fantasyland.
+1
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Because friends don't let friends shoot 9mm. They need a round that will stop someone. a .357Sig will turn a perp inside out just like a 10mm will. The 5.7x28 is to show off, I love mine
Wow. Fantasyland.
+1
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
.357 Sig penetrates barriers amazingly well for a pistol round. And it puts people down with a higher one shot percentage than about anything else.
It penetrates hard barriers well because it uses a decent grain bullet at a relatively high velocity. A 125 grain round running 1300-1500FPS has good velocity and energy. Its downfall is that it costs a lot, and it limits capacity compared to a 9mm. Capacity is the same as .40 S&W chambered guns. overall energy is about the same as .40 S&W rounds when comparing data on ballistics 101. Its velocity is what gives it the ability to penetrate well through glass and light steel.
Back to cost when considering a .357sig. A hot 9mm round from buffalo bore or Corbon will propel a 9mm 115gr +p bullet out to 1300-1400 FPS. A hot +P or +P+ 9mm in the 115gr to 124gr weights will provide similar penetration as a 357 sig for a lot less money.
The velocity is almost the same, and the bullet weight is similar. The .357sig has a slight advantage in all out performance, however the 9mm smokes it in price, availability, and capacity. The 357sig also has considerably louder blast as it is a necked .40 case.
In short .357sig is BA, but it is not half as practical, and its performance is not exponentially greater than 9mm or .40S&W
They are all weak compared to Rifle rounds. Ballistic wise most semi-auto handgun loads perform pretty much the same. The .357 sig is a stellar performer and is probably the round the .40 should have been from the beginning, but it is far to expensive to be practical.
Id love to have a sig P320 in 357sig, but i dont want to feed it. at $37 a box of 50 for target ammo its expensive to shoot.
I can shoot 9mm for a third of that and .40S&W for half. its a no brainer. The means for extra training with 9mm or .40 is far more important than any ballistic advantage the .357sig may or may not offer.
.357 Sig penetrates barriers amazingly well for a pistol round. And it puts people down with a higher one shot percentage than about anything else.
It penetrates hard barriers well because it uses a decent grain bullet at a relatively high velocity. A 125 grain round running 1300-1500FPS has good velocity and energy. Its downfall is that it costs a lot, and it limits capacity compared to a 9mm. Capacity is the same as .40 S&W chambered guns. overall energy is about the same as .40 S&W rounds when comparing data on ballistics 101. Its velocity is what gives it the ability to penetrate well through glass and light steel.
Back to cost when considering a .357sig. A hot 9mm round from buffalo bore or Corbon will propel a 9mm 115gr +p bullet out to 1300-1400 FPS. A hot +P or +P+ 9mm in the 115gr to 124gr weights will provide similar penetration as a 357 sig for a lot less money.
The velocity is almost the same, and the bullet weight is similar. The .357sig has a slight advantage in all out performance, however the 9mm smokes it in price, availability, and capacity. The 357sig also has considerably louder blast as it is a necked .40 case.
In short .357sig is BA, but it is not half as practical, and its performance is not exponentially greater than 9mm or .40S&W
They are all weak compared to Rifle rounds. Ballistic wise most semi-auto handgun loads perform pretty much the same. The .357 sig is a stellar performer and is probably the round the .40 should have been from the beginning, but it is far to expensive to be practical.
Id love to have a sig P320 in 357sig, but i dont want to feed it. at $37 a box of 50 for target ammo its expensive to shoot.
I can shoot 9mm for a third of that and .40S&W for half. its a no brainer. The means for extra training with 9mm or .40 is far more important than any ballistic advantage the .357sig may or may not offer.
Last edited:
I don't know the specifics but I'm sure ammo technology has progressed since that decision was made 20 years ago.
Why did they decide to use it 20 years ago, probably because it was better than 9mm. Why do they still use it now? Because the gubberment is a slow moving giant.
Why did they decide to use it 20 years ago, probably because it was better than 9mm. Why do they still use it now? Because the gubberment is a slow moving giant.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
^ nailed it. It's a hot rod round no doubt about it and fun to shoot but just impractical for the reasons noted. Good post!
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
It penetrates hard barriers well because it uses a decent grain bullet at a relatively high velocity. A 125 grain round running 1300-1500FPS has good velocity and energy. Its downfall is that it costs a lot, and it limits capacity compared to a 9mm. Capacity is the same as .40 S&W chambered guns. overall energy is about the same as .40 S&W rounds when comparing data on ballistics 101. Its velocity is what gives it the ability to penetrate well through glass and light steel.
Back to cost when considering a .357sig. A hot 9mm round from buffalo bore or Corbon will propel a 9mm 115gr +p bullet out to 1300-1400 FPS. A hot +P or +P+ 9mm in the 115gr to 124gr weights will provide similar penetration as a 357 sig for a lot less money.
The velocity is almost the same, and the bullet weight is similar. The .357sig has a slight advantage in all out performance, however the 9mm smokes it in price, availability, and capacity. The 357sig also has considerably louder blast as it is a necked .40 case.
In short .357sig is BA, but it is not half as practical, and its performance is not exponentially greater than 9mm or .40S&W
They are all weak compared to Rifle rounds. Ballistic wise most semi-auto handgun loads perform pretty much the same. The .357 sig is a stellar performer and is probably the round the .40 should have been from the beginning, but it is far to expensive to be practical.
Id love to have a sig P320 in 357sig, but i dont want to feed it. at $37 a box of 50 for target ammo its expensive to shoot.
I can shoot 9mm for a third of that and .40S&W for half. its a no brainer. The means for extra training with 9mm or .40 is far more important than any ballistic advantage the .357sig may or may not offer.
You can't compare Buffalo Bore/etc specialty 9mm ammo to Speer and Federal duty Sig ammo. Underwood has 125 Gold Dots hitting 1500+ out of 4 inch Glocks. Apples to apples the Sig wins against the 9mm. If you look at the Speer ballistic charts the Sig penetrates more than 9mm/40/45 almost every time. A big plus if you're trying to win gunfights. You do lose a couple rounds in the mag but if you're shooting to slide lock in 13+ cap guns I doubt the last few rounds are really doing too much.
357 Sig ammo also isn't $40 a box. You can get it very easily for $20/box of 50. Cost is really a non issue. If you do shoot a lot there's no requirement to shoot .357 Sig exclusively. And you'd already have a reloader. Most people shoot two or three boxes a year, maybe.
It penetrates hard barriers well because it uses a decent grain bullet at a relatively high velocity. A 125 grain round running 1300-1500FPS has good velocity and energy. Its downfall is that it costs a lot, and it limits capacity compared to a 9mm. Capacity is the same as .40 S&W chambered guns. overall energy is about the same as .40 S&W rounds when comparing data on ballistics 101. Its velocity is what gives it the ability to penetrate well through glass and light steel.
Back to cost when considering a .357sig. A hot 9mm round from buffalo bore or Corbon will propel a 9mm 115gr +p bullet out to 1300-1400 FPS. A hot +P or +P+ 9mm in the 115gr to 124gr weights will provide similar penetration as a 357 sig for a lot less money.
The velocity is almost the same, and the bullet weight is similar. The .357sig has a slight advantage in all out performance, however the 9mm smokes it in price, availability, and capacity. The 357sig also has considerably louder blast as it is a necked .40 case.
In short .357sig is BA, but it is not half as practical, and its performance is not exponentially greater than 9mm or .40S&W
They are all weak compared to Rifle rounds. Ballistic wise most semi-auto handgun loads perform pretty much the same. The .357 sig is a stellar performer and is probably the round the .40 should have been from the beginning, but it is far to expensive to be practical.
Id love to have a sig P320 in 357sig, but i dont want to feed it. at $37 a box of 50 for target ammo its expensive to shoot.
I can shoot 9mm for a third of that and .40S&W for half. its a no brainer. The means for extra training with 9mm or .40 is far more important than any ballistic advantage the .357sig may or may not offer.
You can't compare Buffalo Bore/etc specialty 9mm ammo to Speer and Federal duty Sig ammo. Underwood has 125 Gold Dots hitting 1500+ out of 4 inch Glocks. Apples to apples the Sig wins against the 9mm. If you look at the Speer ballistic charts the Sig penetrates more than 9mm/40/45 almost every time. A big plus if you're trying to win gunfights. You do lose a couple rounds in the mag but if you're shooting to slide lock in 13+ cap guns I doubt the last few rounds are really doing too much.
357 Sig ammo also isn't $40 a box. You can get it very easily for $20/box of 50. Cost is really a non issue. If you do shoot a lot there's no requirement to shoot .357 Sig exclusively. And you'd already have a reloader. Most people shoot two or three boxes a year, maybe.
It's the P229 in case you want to know the actual model.
The .357sig is just a hot 9 mm. IIRC they choose the round because it penetrates glass and such really well and it feeds well.
The .357sig is just a hot 9 mm. IIRC they choose the round because it penetrates glass and such really well and it feeds well.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
It penetrates hard barriers well because it uses a decent grain bullet at a relatively high velocity. A 125 grain round running 1300-1500FPS has good velocity and energy. Its downfall is that it costs a lot, and it limits capacity compared to a 9mm. Capacity is the same as .40 S&W chambered guns. overall energy is about the same as .40 S&W rounds when comparing data on ballistics 101. Its velocity is what gives it the ability to penetrate well through glass and light steel.
Back to cost when considering a .357sig. A hot 9mm round from buffalo bore or Corbon will propel a 9mm 115gr +p bullet out to 1300-1400 FPS. A hot +P or +P+ 9mm in the 115gr to 124gr weights will provide similar penetration as a 357 sig for a lot less money.
The velocity is almost the same, and the bullet weight is similar. The .357sig has a slight advantage in all out performance, however the 9mm smokes it in price, availability, and capacity. The 357sig also has considerably louder blast as it is a necked .40 case.
In short .357sig is BA, but it is not half as practical, and its performance is not exponentially greater than 9mm or .40S&W
They are all weak compared to Rifle rounds. Ballistic wise most semi-auto handgun loads perform pretty much the same. The .357 sig is a stellar performer and is probably the round the .40 should have been from the beginning, but it is far to expensive to be practical.
Id love to have a sig P320 in 357sig, but i dont want to feed it. at $37 a box of 50 for target ammo its expensive to shoot.
I can shoot 9mm for a third of that and .40S&W for half. its a no brainer. The means for extra training with 9mm or .40 is far more important than any ballistic advantage the .357sig may or may not offer.
You can't compare Buffalo Bore/etc specialty 9mm ammo to Speer and Federal duty Sig ammo. Underwood has 125 Gold Dots hitting 1500+ out of 4 inch Glocks. Apples to apples the Sig wins against the 9mm. If you look at the Speer ballistic charts the Sig penetrates more than 9mm/40/45 almost every time. A big plus if you're trying to win gunfights. You do lose a couple rounds in the mag but if you're shooting to slide lock in 13+ cap guns I doubt the last few rounds are really doing too much.
357 Sig ammo also isn't $40 a box. You can get it very easily for $20/box of 50. Cost is really a non issue. If you do shoot a lot there's no requirement to shoot .357 Sig exclusively. And you'd already have a reloader. Most people shoot two or three boxes a year, maybe.
I don't think your apples to apples comparison takes to account the cost delta between the two which leads to increased or decreased proficiency. I don't think its debatable that the 357 SIG is more powerful than the 9mm. It is. However the cost for FMJ ammo is roughly double what 9mm costs. FMJ was $26.99/50 @ Cabela's (checked today) and its roughy .42-.46 per round online compared with .20-.24 per round for 9mm. Even your "$20/box" is indisputably double what 9mm costs. This is a factor that can not be ignored by people who pay for their training allowances.
So you could say train with 9mm and carry the 357 SIG, but that introduces some variables that some (most) people can't overcome. This is why the ammo companies have started to make training/carry ammo or training ammo that is marketed to match the ballistics of carry ammo.
To get to the data how much increased penetration are we talking about here, and in the majority of circumstances would that even be applicable or appreciated in a majority of civilian/citizen defensive encounters versus increased proficiency due to lower cost and recoil ammo? I would take 2 rounds over an extra 2" of penetration any day of the week, and twice on Sundays!
If you want a hot 9mm round, 9BPLE (115 gr +P+, aka IL State Police Load) is rather inexpensive, and has quite the bit of "street cred" built up over the years.
My $0.05 (adjusted for inflation), I shoot about 10k rds of pistol a year on my own dime and about the same for Uncle.
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
It penetrates hard barriers well because it uses a decent grain bullet at a relatively high velocity. A 125 grain round running 1300-1500FPS has good velocity and energy. Its downfall is that it costs a lot, and it limits capacity compared to a 9mm. Capacity is the same as .40 S&W chambered guns. overall energy is about the same as .40 S&W rounds when comparing data on ballistics 101. Its velocity is what gives it the ability to penetrate well through glass and light steel.
Back to cost when considering a .357sig. A hot 9mm round from buffalo bore or Corbon will propel a 9mm 115gr +p bullet out to 1300-1400 FPS. A hot +P or +P+ 9mm in the 115gr to 124gr weights will provide similar penetration as a 357 sig for a lot less money.
The velocity is almost the same, and the bullet weight is similar. The .357sig has a slight advantage in all out performance, however the 9mm smokes it in price, availability, and capacity. The 357sig also has considerably louder blast as it is a necked .40 case.
In short .357sig is BA, but it is not half as practical, and its performance is not exponentially greater than 9mm or .40S&W
They are all weak compared to Rifle rounds. Ballistic wise most semi-auto handgun loads perform pretty much the same. The .357 sig is a stellar performer and is probably the round the .40 should have been from the beginning, but it is far to expensive to be practical.
Id love to have a sig P320 in 357sig, but i dont want to feed it. at $37 a box of 50 for target ammo its expensive to shoot.
I can shoot 9mm for a third of that and .40S&W for half. its a no brainer. The means for extra training with 9mm or .40 is far more important than any ballistic advantage the .357sig may or may not offer.
You can't compare Buffalo Bore/etc specialty 9mm ammo to Speer and Federal duty Sig ammo. Underwood has 125 Gold Dots hitting 1500+ out of 4 inch Glocks. Apples to apples the Sig wins against the 9mm. If you look at the Speer ballistic charts the Sig penetrates more than 9mm/40/45 almost every time. A big plus if you're trying to win gunfights. You do lose a couple rounds in the mag but if you're shooting to slide lock in 13+ cap guns I doubt the last few rounds are really doing too much.
357 Sig ammo also isn't $40 a box. You can get it very easily for $20/box of 50. Cost is really a non issue. If you do shoot a lot there's no requirement to shoot .357 Sig exclusively. And you'd already have a reloader. Most people shoot two or three boxes a year, maybe.
I don't think your apples to apples comparison takes to account the cost delta between the two which leads to increased or decreased proficiency. I don't think its debatable that the 357 SIG is more powerful than the 9mm. It is. However the cost for FMJ ammo is roughly double what 9mm costs. FMJ was $26.99/50 @ Cabela's (checked today) and its roughy .42-.46 per round online compared with .20-.24 per round for 9mm. Even your "$20/box" is indisputably double what 9mm costs. This is a factor that can not be ignored by people who pay for their training allowances.
So you could say train with 9mm and carry the 357 SIG, but that introduces some variables that some (most) people can't overcome. This is why the ammo companies have started to make training/carry ammo or training ammo that is marketed to match the ballistics of carry ammo.
To get to the data how much increased penetration are we talking about here, and in the majority of circumstances would that even be applicable or appreciated in a majority of civilian/citizen defensive encounters versus increased proficiency due to lower cost and recoil ammo? I would take 2 rounds over an extra 2" of penetration any day of the week, and twice on Sundays!
If you want a hot 9mm round, 9BPLE (115 gr +P+, aka IL State Police Load) is rather inexpensive, and has quite the bit of "street cred" built up over the years.
My $0.05 (adjusted for inflation), I shoot about 10k rds of pistol a year on my own dime and about the same for Uncle.
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