School me on travel trailers!

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Originally Posted By: JTK
Most of them are alarmingly flimsy like said, but to make them weigh as less as possible, that's one of the prices you pay. My in laws bought a new Jayco Jayflight SLX earlier this year. I think it's around 21-23ft and 5000ish pounds. They bought it hook, line and sinker from a local RV dealer, with just about every "extended warranty" option available. They were around the $18K mark all in I believe. Everything looks great from a distance, but it is an ultra cheaply built SOB. Worst thing is, it's been sitting unused, exactly where I left it in their driveway since May/June. Tree junk falling on it, etc.. Point it, unless it's some super special rig you need. Buy used. People either get into it and out of it relatively quick or like said, if they like it, they upgrade quickly.

The RV sales dept convinced MY FIL that a late model Nissan Frontier 4.0L would be fine for towing this rig too, given the Frontier has a max tow recommendation of ~6200lbs. It's a got a Teconsha e-brake controller and a Reese WDH. This pic doesn't really do it justice. The trailer looks way bigger in relation to the truck in person. It pulled it dry/empty the 20 mile ride home just fine, where it's sat ever since. LOL

u2JEGIz.jpg




It's actually right around 4,500 pounds.
 
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Wow lots of good info. Thanks guys.



irv said:
Good advice. I also don't recall anyone talking about electric brakes, which the OP will also require especially if he sticks with the Canyon?
This is a good vid to watch, which hopefully convinces you to choose another tow vehicle if you plan on sticking to your original thoughts on trailer size.
Many more vids exist as has been said. Make to sure to watch a ton of them.



As I mentioned, my Canyon has the tow package and it includes an integrated brake controller. So that means I would be using electric brakes. Electric brakes are standard on a TT, right?

My bad. When I read "Canyon" I automatically thought of the older models like this and thought you were going way in over your head.


I don't assume you are interested in a 5th wheel? If so, Newmar makes excellent trailers and even the old(er) ones are built better than some of the new ones today.

https://rv.campingworld.com/product/newmar

I know our park use to sell Jayco's and they had a great rep then. A couple of my buddies in the park own them and have had really good luck with them.
Of course, with manu's and the like switching hands constantly, I no longer know if that is still the case with them?

Good luck.
cheers3.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
They're all garbage. Unless you buy an Airstream, that is the sad reality. The others all-no exceptions-have build quality that would have had the builders of Trabants and Volgas hanging their heads in shame. Expect to have a list of things that fall apart after every trip for several years.

Expect under-spec'd wiring, marginal axles, poor brakes that have a 50/50 chance of pulling to one side, maypop tires in weird sizes and load ratings (185/80R13D, anyone?), a roof that needs to be resealed annually to avoid leaks (it may leak anyway), and axles that will just, just barely carry the weight with zero safety margin. (And one or both might not actually be straight.)


They have to meet RIVA standards-the wires while not "stout" are not under spec'ed. The major cause of tire failures are under inflation and going faster than the 65mph most are rated for.

I have towed a $15,000.00 (bought new travel trailer) coast to coast and had absolutely zero issues. NONE.


You think that RVIA sticker actually means something. I believed in the tooth fairy once, too. Really want an eye-opener, tear down a travel trailer. You'll cringe. My favorite thing I found was taillight wiring: the builder had simply whacked a hole in the aluminum with a dull chisel for the wiring. No grommet, no attempt to trim the edges, just wires run through a ragged hole. It took about a year for the wires to short.

The major cause for tire failures is the Chinese garbage that is sold as ST tires, and most trailers running right at the weight limits of the tires.



It must depend on the manufacturer. As I stated -I bought a travel trailer NEW and literally have towed it all over the country. We have not had a single issue. It's 6 years old now. Also-I run ST tires (all Chinese made)-never exceed 65mph and don't overload, and don't hop curbs. Consequently-I have not had a single blow out-not even a puncture. It's on it's 3rd set of tires-due to sidewall cracking-that happens if you don't cover them, especially with the hot summer sun-at altitude here in the Salt Lake area.

SO-we can disagree on the major cause of tire issues on trailers.


You got lucky. There are trailers that run the tires at or over 100% capacity if loaded. (Some actually are guaranteed to be overloaded unless the hitch weight is 15% or greater-the tires aren't actually rated for the trailer's full weight!)

There were a few manufacturer's that didn't build total garbage (Carriage comes to mind, as does Trailmanor), but they're the exception.
 
I wouldn't tow any rv trailer over 4000lbs with a Canyon. Like other posts said, towing 8000 lbs of scrap around town would be ok, but towing 5000lb at highway speeds will be scary. It doesn't weigh enough and doesn't have a long enough wheelbase. Also wimpy suspension. It would sway and be scary. Doesn't have E rated 10 ply tires. I only like to tow with 8 lug trucks with E load tires.

Sure the diesel canyon has power. I have a yj Wrangler with a 383 Chevy, it has loads of power and a hitch, but due to the short wheelbase it makes towing even my boat scary at times.

And don't get a slide out. They fail, and then you have to smash or squish them back in to get home.

And like the other posts said, most trailers are overloading the tires stock, so blow outs are common. Lots of folks swap to 16 inch wheels to get 3400lb capacity per tire.
 
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Originally Posted By: DONWATERS
I wouldn't tow any rv trailer over 4000lbs with a Canyon. Like other posts said, towing 8000 lbs of scrap around town would be ok, but towing 5000lb at highway speeds will be scary. It doesn't weigh enough and doesn't have a long enough wheelbase. Also wimpy suspension. It would sway and be scary. Doesn't have E rated 10 ply tires. I only like to tow with 8 lug trucks with E load tires.

Sure the diesel canyon has power. I have a yj Wrangler with a 383 Chevy, it has loads of power and a hitch, but due to the short wheelbase it makes towing even my boat scary at times.

And don't get a slide out. They fail, and then you have to smash or squish them back in to get home.

And like the other posts said, most trailers are overloading the tires stock, so blow outs are common. Lots of folks swap to 16 inch wheels to get 3400lb capacity per tire.


It doesn’t have a short wheelbase. A CCLB Canyon Duramax is almost as long as a CC Tundra. There is less than 1’ difference.

And the 2.8 doesn’t have power. It’s tuned for economy, emissions and torque.

With that said I think 20-23’ is a better idea as this is all new to me.

Do they even make TTs without slides? Everyone I saw except the airstream and old models had slides.
 
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Originally Posted By: DONWATERS
I wouldn't tow any rv trailer over 4000lbs with a Canyon. Like other posts said, towing 8000 lbs of scrap around town would be ok, but towing 5000lb at highway speeds will be scary. It doesn't weigh enough and doesn't have a long enough wheelbase. Also wimpy suspension. It would sway and be scary. Doesn't have E rated 10 ply tires. I only like to tow with 8 lug trucks with E load tires.

Sure the diesel canyon has power. I have a yj Wrangler with a 383 Chevy, it has loads of power and a hitch, but due to the short wheelbase it makes towing even my boat scary at times.

And don't get a slide out. They fail, and then you have to smash or squish them back in to get home.

And like the other posts said, most trailers are overloading the tires stock, so blow outs are common. Lots of folks swap to 16 inch wheels to get 3400lb capacity per tire.


It doesn’t have a short wheelbase. A CCLB Canyon Duramax is almost as long as a CC Tundra. There is less than 1’ difference.

And the 2.8 doesn’t have power. It’s tuned for economy, emissions and torque.

With that said I think 20-23’ is a better idea as this is all new to me.

Do they even make TTs without slides? Everyone I saw except the airstream and old models had slides.



Don't worry about slides failing, especially if you get a decent quality trailer. Most, if the hydraulics fail, have a way of manually cranking them back in anyways.
Check RV forums and I sure you will see it is a rarity.

Also, if you do purchase one with a slide, make sure you read if they require the slide to be supported with jacks, etc. Many make the mistake of jacking/blocking them when its not required which can lead to problems.
Our slide has worked flawlessly for years and years without jacking (not required and frowned upon!) (behind the boat)and we have never had a problem with it. Mind you, it is a Newmar and has sat stationary for the last 12 years.

 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Well, yes-if you don't actually MOVE the trailer, you'll have fewer problems!



Actually when he does move it, quite a few can show up. Travel trailers sitting are not good for them either. Moisture inside, critters etc. Grease turning to chalk in the bearings etc. The awnings may tear.

Not good for the A/C to not be used, probably bad for the gas absorption refrigerator.
 
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I have a 6 year old Keystone Passport 3220BHWE. I have towed it over 30,000 miles now, We camp all year long. I have been all over the Dakotas, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, California, Wyoming and Montana. It never gets winterized. 2 sets of tires, 1 set of brakes. A propane supply line, one electric awing motor, one tire blowout when we picked up a nail and one leak in the slide that was fixed when new under warranty. I wax it twice a year and seal what needs to be sealed.
My slides are of the pulley/cable type. I have not had any issues.

Some of you guys can be such downers. Maintenance and proper use are key.

Started with this.

Moved to this.


Hitch selection is important. I see 3/4 ton and up truck running with out WD or sway control, but I see no reason not to.

I run the Equalizer E2 hitch. I love that hitch. Trailer is so stable. I have people ride with me say "I can't tell it is back there until you have to hit the go pedal on the bigger hills"

Shocks can make all the difference in the world. A good set of aftermarket shocks will prevent porposing. I put KYB Monomax on the truck and stopped the porposing the stock shocks allowed to happen.

My only advice to you is to buy your second trailer first. An old RVer told me that. Basically you will want more than what you buy first.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Well, yes-if you don't actually MOVE the trailer, you'll have fewer problems!



Actually when he does move it, quite a few can show up. Travel trailers sitting are not good for them either. Moisture inside, critters etc. Grease turning to chalk in the bearings etc. The awnings may tear.

Not good for the A/C to not be used, probably bad for the gas absorption refrigerator.


Tell me, what do you guys think is actually harder on a trailer, one sitting stationary or one being travelled with down rough, bumpy, pot ridden roads?

Your comments are silly. Of course things, whether travelled or not can have problems. I have seen it before, but don't recommend it, where trailers, which have sat for years, are attached and away they go without a hiccup.
Personally, and I know I am not like some others, but trust me, before this trailer ever moves an inch, the bearings, wheels and tires will be checked thoroughly as well as all the lights and anything else most people should do prior to a trip.

We use our A/C quite often, especially this summer. Same goes for our canopies. They are used practically every weekend, both the small ones and the large one.

We in fact did lose our large one this past winter. I would assume, since it was probably 20 yrs old or more, that it didn't take much wind to tear it?
We purchased a replacement for it about 4 yrs ago due to aging/beginning to seperate but we kept getting another year out of it so we let it be.
Our fridge was replaced a few years ago due to age, not sitting stationary (don't understand that comment?
confused.gif
) and is used all summer long without ever being shut off until the fall.


Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I have a 6 year old Keystone Passport 3220BHWE. I have towed it over 30,000 miles now, We camp all year long. I have been all over the Dakotas, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, California, Wyoming and Montana. It never gets winterized. 2 sets of tires, 1 set of brakes. A propane supply line, one electric awing motor, one tire blowout when we picked up a nail and one leak in the slide that was fixed when new under warranty. I wax it twice a year and seal what needs to be sealed.
My slides are of the pulley/cable type. I have not had any issues.

Some of you guys can be such downers. Maintenance and proper use are key.
Started with this.


Hitch selection is important. I see 3/4 ton and up truck running with out WD or sway control, but I see no reason not to.

I run the Equalizer E2 hitch. I love that hitch. Trailer is so stable. I have people ride with me say "I can't tell it is back there until you have to hit the go pedal on the bigger hills"

Shocks can make all the difference in the world. A good set of aftermarket shocks will prevent porposing. I put KYB Monomax on the truck and stopped the porposing the stock shocks allowed to happen.

My only advice to you is to buy your second trailer first. An old RVer told me that. Basically you will want more than what you buy first.


No kidding.
lol.gif



 
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Originally Posted By: irv
CleverUserName said:
Wow lots of good info. Thanks guys.



irv said:
Good advice. I also don't recall anyone talking about electric brakes, which the OP will also require especially if he sticks with the Canyon?
This is a good vid to watch, which hopefully convinces you to choose another tow vehicle if you plan on sticking to your original thoughts on trailer size.
Many more vids exist as has been said. Make to sure to watch a ton of them.



As I mentioned, my Canyon has the tow package and it includes an integrated brake controller. So that means I would be using electric brakes. Electric brakes are standard on a TT, right?

Quote:



My bad. When I read "Canyon" I automatically thought of the older models like this and thought you were going way in over your head.


I don't assume you are interested in a 5th wheel? If so, Newmar makes excellent trailers and even the old(er) ones are built better than some of the new ones today.

https://rv.campingworld.com/product/newmar

I know our park use to sell Jayco's and they had a great rep then. A couple of my buddies in the park own them and have had really good luck with them.
Of course, with manu's and the like switching hands constantly, I no longer know if that is still the case with them?

Good luck.
cheers3.gif


Can’t tow a 5th wheel with a Canyon. I believe there are a couple ~ 6000 lbs, however nobody makes a hitch to fit. I think there too heavy anyway.

I think I should get some tow mirrors and add-a-leaf to the rear suspension. Some Koni or Bilatein shocks too in preparation. Then start shopping for a hitch and trailer.
 
Can I use a hitch rated for 1,000 TW on a trailer that has a lower TW? Like 500-600 TW trailer on a hitch rated for 1,000 LBS?

I was looking at the Equalizer hitches and they have a 6K and a 10K hitch. I really need one rated for 7600 or 8K and was wondering if I could upsize and what drawbacks there might be by doing so, or if it would even work.

https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Equal-i-zer/EQ37100ET.html

vs

https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Equal-i-zer/EQ37060ET.html

It looks like the balls are different sizes.
 
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Can I use a hitch rated for 1,000 TW on a trailer that has a lower TW? Like 500-600 TW trailer on a hitch rated for 1,000 LBS?

I was looking at the Equalizer hitches and they have a 6K and a 10K hitch. I really need one rated for 7600 or 8K and was wondering if I could upsize and what drawbacks there might be by doing so, or if it would even work.

https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Equal-i-zer/EQ37100ET.html

vs

https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Equal-i-zer/EQ37060ET.html

It looks like the balls are different sizes.


Just get the 10,000 lbs you will be fine. I have the 10,000 with the 800lbs bars. My trailers tongue weight is about 750lbs.
My trailer is 7500lbs loaded. Heaviest I have had it is about 7100lbs on the scales. Figure tongue weight is about 10 percent of total weight.
 
Originally Posted By: CleverUserName
Originally Posted By: irv
CleverUserName said:
Wow lots of good info. Thanks guys.



irv said:
Good advice. I also don't recall anyone talking about electric brakes, which the OP will also require especially if he sticks with the Canyon?
This is a good vid to watch, which hopefully convinces you to choose another tow vehicle if you plan on sticking to your original thoughts on trailer size.
Many more vids exist as has been said. Make to sure to watch a ton of them.



As I mentioned, my Canyon has the tow package and it includes an integrated brake controller. So that means I would be using electric brakes. Electric brakes are standard on a TT, right?

Quote:



My bad. When I read "Canyon" I automatically thought of the older models like this and thought you were going way in over your head.


I don't assume you are interested in a 5th wheel? If so, Newmar makes excellent trailers and even the old(er) ones are built better than some of the new ones today.

https://rv.campingworld.com/product/newmar

I know our park use to sell Jayco's and they had a great rep then. A couple of my buddies in the park own them and have had really good luck with them.
Of course, with manu's and the like switching hands constantly, I no longer know if that is still the case with them?

Good luck.
cheers3.gif


Can’t tow a 5th wheel with a Canyon. I believe there are a couple ~ 6000 lbs, however nobody makes a hitch to fit. I think there too heavy anyway.

I think I should get some tow mirrors and add-a-leaf to the rear suspension. Some Koni or Bilatein shocks too in preparation. Then start shopping for a hitch and trailer.


Skip the add a leaf. I've been using Hellwig airbags for years with no issue, and they are fully adjustable for all situations. As much support as you wish, or as little.
 
Originally Posted by weebl
his wife told him they need something bigger so his mother in law could camp with them.



I have a friend that bought a travel trailer. He got it so that he and his wife could have some time away (from the mil that lives with them).
 
Don't know where you are on this.

I'm third generation with aero, all-aluminum travel trailers. I've been pulling them forty-five years. Noted above that there is no substitute for right design & construction is correct. This trailer-type is essentially of indefinite lifespan. Call it 250k or 25-years before a rebuild.

And comparing these to a box trailer is way off. There's not a decent comparison.

First, a ten year old isn't old (Airstream only survivor from the Golden Age, so we will use them as stand-in for AVION, SILVER STREAK, and STREAMLINE). A ten year old AS is a better trailer than anything at the box trailer lot. By construction only.

The important difference is design. Fully aero means good entry & exit (horsepower demand), but what really matters is crosswind stability. This is fully sealed underside and surfaces are fully-radiused into each other. Then low ground clearance. And fully independent suspension.

Loss-of-control accidents are not problems in skill (that's a laughable defense) but go directly to design. On a square box the winds pile up and increase in force the length of the trailer. This is what you'll see in wreck videos. The tail gets sideways (airborne) first.

High ground clearance only worsens this. Slide-outs have caused TTs to have a floor nearly four feet off the ground. And the crudity of leaf sprung suspension is reprehensible. LS itself isn't bad, but it's design must be right. On conventional TTs it couldn't be worse.

So you've got the wind pushing like crazy, and the barely four inches of suspension travel can't compensate.

On an AS the wind isn't trapped. It flows over and exerts a pull. A much gentler force. And can't build a wedge underneath as the torsion axles help compensate.

The AS only needs (what you should add) anti-lock disc brakes. That and the state of the art brake controller from TUSON CORP.

A box trailer might last 75k miles. For a high annual miles user. Service life will be less than ten years (break out the moisture meter: water WILL have invaded). IOW, it won't last the life of the finance note. This is why you see RVers trade so often. It's a need, not a want.

My folks bought their Silver Streak when I was in high school. Sold it 27-years later when my son had started college. (And that owner still has it on the road). Dad replaced the main awning near the end, and there were some other repairs along the way. Ever walk into a place at age 45 where things are the same as when you were 18?

That trailer crossed the continent numerous times. My grandparents Streamline added all of Lower Canada and nearly all of Mexico to that.

Of course we used cars. Still the better tow vehicle over any pickup. The name of the game is stability which pickups don't have. They're the worst thing on the road as far as that goes.

An Airstream has greater stability than any pickup. And continues higher in speed behind a better TV where a pickup has already rolled. The pickup will be the SOURCE of the accident versus an AS in tow.

4WD only makes it worse. Dead steering. The trailer will (does) get past the point of control before it's felt at the steering wheel. Buh-bye.

Those unibody cars we had easily lasted 12-years or 200k. And those trailers were each in excess of 7,000-lbs. 1,100-lb tongue weight. Which is no challenge if one understands how a weight-distribution hitch works. (97% don't. You won't find it on Stupid Tube). Low center of gravity plus better suspension & steering sophistication are what's wanted.

The hitch & it's rigging are just as important as the choice of the two vehicles. But a pickup truck tow vehicle is the weak link.

That's best addressed with trailer disc brakes, controller, and a Hensley-patent hitch (either branded Hensley or Pro Pride). The trailer will not come out of alignment with the tow vehicle. No sway is a guarantee. No other hitch is on its class.

The usual dummies (who've never used one) will crybaby about money. Not understanding "what is value?"

Suffice it to say there's not a pickup out there doesn't need it. Big bandaids right off the showroom floor.

Take your current pickup to the closest truckstop that has a CAT Scale (get phone app; and see video). The only items in the truck are what you will leave in it till the day it's sold. Top off the fuel tank.

The single scale pass with the driver only (corrected TARE weight) is the lightest the truck will ever be. With the scale ticket, compare the Steer abc Drive Axle values to the door sticker showing axle/tire/wheel limits. "Payload" and "Towing Capacity" haven't any meaning. Here, we are looking at legal limits (I'm also a professional driver).

The difference from scale ticket to door sticker is how one adjusts a WD hitch. The old rule of thumb was One Third Distribution: Steer, Drive & Trailer. A 1k TW was thus 330-lbs to each axle. Now, it wasn't ever perfectly so, but it was the guideline. And still is.

There's a single key: Steer Axle Weight.

Takes three scale crossings.

Loaded & hitched for camping. Full fresh water & propane in trailer plus all passengers aboard.

1). First Pass: hitched with WD tensioned.

2). Second Pass: same as above but with WD slack.

3). Drop trailer and return for solo weighing.

Get all three printouts from fuel desk. $11 for first and each reweigh $2.

These are also guides to correct tire pressure.

Now, that was actually the fine tune stage. Where One & Three have the same Steer Axle value.

The start is at home with a rough in. The trailer is dead-level with a carpenters level across the door threshold. There's no allowable deviation from this.

The guide (best one) is from the Can Am RV webblog: Hitch Hints: "Setting your Torsion Bars".

Etc
Etc

How much can I tow (wrong question).

How well you set the hitch rigging is everything.

Obviously there's a lot more than this.

Just remember that there is no substitute for design, nor for getting the equally important rigging correct.

The last laugh (at conventional nonsense), "oh, a fifth wheel is more stable than a bumper pull". Really? There's not a fifth wheel out there that won't roll over at speeds where I can make emergency double lane changes with my 35' in tow. And continue on. In winds that force them to stop for the day.

Take your time. www.airforums.com is a big site. Use Google searches vs website. Lots of folks with older trailers. Mine will turn thirty this next year. Not old compared to some.

And, while it's true I had the advantage of a lifetimes experience with these, I bought both vehicles in used condition for just a scratch under $30k combined. Ironically, the TT would sell for much more than I paid, and the TV has had but $4k of depreciation in those eleven years.

If you've room to park it at home, you're set. Under hard cover is best.

Good luck.

.
 
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From what I've learned over the course of a couple of months and a one person Sauna...the pic below is too big to take camping...



Picture-15.png


rs4-trailer-.jpeg
 
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