School me on travel trailers!

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by TheTanSedan
Jarlaxle

Sux to not understand basic physics.

Sux worse to get into name-calling on a subject any high schooler could prove you wrong.

Let everyone think you a fool, or open your mouth and prove it?

As you've never driven a well-sorted rig where both vehicles are of "best design" OR properly-hitched, why you offer an opinion no one would want to consider is the mystery.

Show us the tests. The scale tickets. Anything at all.


How many drums of Kool-Aid can you carry without being overweight?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by TheTanSedan
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by TheTanSedan


Those unibody cars we had easily lasted 12-years or 200k. And those trailers were each in excess of 7,000-lbs. 1,100-lb tongue weight. Which is no challenge if one understands how a weight-distribution hitch works. (97% don't. You won't find it on Stupid Tube). Low center of gravity plus better suspension & steering sophistication are what's wanted.

.

I can't argue with what you said but I have to wonder what unibody car you used that could tow in excess of 7k.

Not here in the states, but in Australia I know guys doing it with Caprices. Long wheel base 355hp 400 ft/lbs of torque, big brakes.

I have no doubt my car will move 7500 lbs, just not 32 feet. Under 25? Most likely.


Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by TheTanSedan


Those unibody cars we had easily lasted 12-years or 200k. And those trailers were each in excess of 7,000-lbs. 1,100-lb tongue weight. Which is no challenge if one understands how a weight-distribution hitch works. (97% don't. You won't find it on Stupid Tube). Low center of gravity plus better suspension & steering sophistication are what's wanted.

.

I can't argue with what you said but I have to wonder what unibody car you used that could tow in excess of 7k.

Not here in the states, but in Australia I know guys doing it with Caprices. Long wheel base 355hp 400 ft/lbs of torque, big brakes.

I have no doubt my car will move 7500 lbs, just not 32 feet. Under 25? Most likely.


Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by TheTanSedan


Those unibody cars we had easily lasted 12-years or 200k. And those trailers were each in excess of 7,000-lbs. 1,100-lb tongue weight. Which is no challenge if one understands how a weight-distribution hitch works. (97% don't. You won't find it on Stupid Tube). Low center of gravity plus better suspension & steering sophistication are what's wanted.

.

I can't argue with what you said but I have to wonder what unibody car you used that could tow in excess of 7k.

Not here in the states, but in Australia I know guys doing it with Caprices. Long wheel base 355hp 400 ft/lbs of torque, big brakes.

I have no doubt my car will move 7500 lbs, just not 32 feet. Under 25? Most likely.



It's not the weight. It's the AERO QUALITIES that matter. We can build a 3000 lb trailer an F650 couldn't get above 45-mph.

Sure, a family car is slower up the hill. So? Only the downgrade matters

One doesn't spec a vehicle for .002% of its miles. LOWEST RISK BY DESIGN is what matters.


Etc

This might be the DUMBEST THING EVER POSTED ON THE INTERNET. Good job.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by CleverUserName
I'm thinking of buying a new or used travel trailer. However, I know very little about them. I've towed a car on a trailer while moving once, but that's it.

My tow vehicle is a GMC Canyon Duramax 4x4 CCLB. 100% stock. Max tow rating is 7600 lbs. This would be a bumper pull unit with a weight distributing/anti sway setup.

Thinking 5000 lb dry weight would be the max for this truck. 23-27' length with double axles and good ground clearance is desirable.

Can't afford an airstream, so lets not discuss those.

*What trailer manufacturers are good and which ones are bad?

*What hitch should I get?

*Any advice is welcome as I know very little about travel trailers.


AS SOMEONE WHO HAS TOWED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY-AND COAST TO COAST. THE 5,000 POUND DRY WEIGHT IS TOO MUCH FOR YOUR TRUCK. i WOULD STRONGLY SUGGEST NO MORE THAN 5,000 POUNDS READY TO CAMP.

I would suggest other rv related forums for the rest of your concerns.

BTW-Equalizer makes a good hitch for WD.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by TheTanSedan
Campgrounds full of pickups. And the same 99% who can't get hitch rigging correct.

Is either a recommendation?

The family tow vehicle is one that best suits solo duty. And can also tow a trailer.

But you'd rather put your family in a vehicle that is likelier to be THE CAUSE of the accident. What does it say about your judgment?



Sorry but you are just wrong. You can say what you say with conviction , but that does not make it true.

NOW if you got a full size buick /gm estate wagon from say 1978 or prior , you would be correct. Heavy, low center of gravity, full frame. But cafe killed large station wagons early on.

That is the main reason the SUV is popular, no more giant station wagons. Trucks/ suburban class vehicles are the only way to go when over 4000lbs.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by spasm3
Originally Posted by TheTanSedan
Campgrounds full of pickups. And the same 99% who can't get hitch rigging correct.

Is either a recommendation?

The family tow vehicle is one that best suits solo duty. And can also tow a trailer.

But you'd rather put your family in a vehicle that is likelier to be THE CAUSE of the accident. What does it say about your judgment?



Sorry but you are just wrong. You can say what you say with conviction , but that does not make it true.

NOW if you got a full size buick /gm estate wagon from say 1978 or prior , you would be correct. Heavy, low center of gravity, full frame. But cafe killed large station wagons early on.

That is the main reason the SUV is popular, no more giant station wagons. Trucks/ suburban class vehicles are the only way to go when over 4000lbs.

There is this thing called "payload" that is a key factor. Even some half-ton (crew cab) pickups have a payload of only 1,600 pounds. So you put a hitch weight of 800 pounds - you have to be careful on the rest of the weight. That's why some trucks "are rated" at 12,000 pounds but in reality can only tow 2/3rds of that amount due to "payload" numbers.
BTW-a weight distributing hitch doesn't make the weight go away-just distributes it evenly across the axles.

We have some commenting on this thread-that's it's painfully obvious they don't tow.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by spasm3
Originally Posted by TheTanSedan
Campgrounds full of pickups. And the same 99% who can't get hitch rigging correct.

Is either a recommendation?

The family tow vehicle is one that best suits solo duty. And can also tow a trailer.

But you'd rather put your family in a vehicle that is likelier to be THE CAUSE of the accident. What does it say about your judgment?



Sorry but you are just wrong. You can say what you say with conviction , but that does not make it true.

NOW if you got a full size buick /gm estate wagon from say 1978 or prior , you would be correct. Heavy, low center of gravity, full frame. But cafe killed large station wagons early on.

That is the main reason the SUV is popular, no more giant station wagons. Trucks/ suburban class vehicles are the only way to go when over 4000lbs.

Those cars actually ran to 1996.

 

[4WD]

My 2010 Canyon was rated for 6000 lbs …

 

[4WD]

Neighbor towed around a 19' with several Pontiac wagons way back when … they all had 400+ CID engines … and an equalizer hitch that had a brace way under the car … that concrete driveway still has grooves at the curb that few can figure out the origin of … (what a nerve racking sound) …

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Neighbor towed around a 19' with several Pontiac wagons way back when … they all had 400+ CID engines … and an equalizer hitch that had a brace way under the car … that concrete driveway still has grooves at the curb that few can figure out the origin of … (what a nerve racking sound) …



My dad had a buick estate wagon, had the same brace that ran up to frame. It did tow and handle well with a boat or anything.

I got it from him and drove it for several years. I was rear ended by a prelude, totaled it, hood, quarters radiator and condenser bent into a u, both headlights handing by the wires.

He scratched my chrome ball pretty good.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by 4WD
My 2010 Canyon was rated for 6000 lbs …


And what was your payload amount as indicated on the yellow and white sticker on your driver's door jam?


Yea.....what it is rated for and what payload is -is two different things. Payload limits maximum towing capacity in many cases.

It's the payload that limits you-the most misunderstood specification and how this plays in to towing is payload. And the truck commercials don't help..."out tows competition, tows 14,000 pounds".....yea right.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I recall my last Caprice was good for just short of 2100lbs in payload. (No yellow sticker, GVWR minus weight on the truck scale at work.) My Caddy is good for about the same-it has towed 4000+lbs many times.

 

[Garak]

I believe PM back in the day (mid 1990s) properly outfitted a Buick Roadmaster wagon for towing a 10,000 lb trailer. It was an interesting read.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Been a while, but I recall they were rated for 5000lbs with the towing package.

 

[Garak]

Yes, I think they were somewhere in that neighborhood. If I look hard enough, I probably have the magazine somewhere. It was an interesting article. If I recall, it was a sailboat of some sort they were towing. I found some references on Google Books to other tests they did, including it being a more suitable tow vehicle than some of the full sized pickups of the time.

 

[TheTanSedan]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by TheTanSedan


Those unibody cars we had easily lasted 12-years or 200k. And those trailers were each in excess of 7,000-lbs. 1,100-lb tongue weight. Which is no challenge if one understands how a weight-distribution hitch works. (97% don't. You won't find it on Stupid Tube). Low center of gravity plus better suspension & steering sophistication are what's wanted.

.

I can't argue with what you said but I have to wonder what unibody car you used that could tow in excess of 7k.

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by TheTanSedan


Those unibody cars we had easily lasted 12-years or 200k. And those trailers were each in excess of 7,000-lbs. 1,100-lb tongue weight. Which is no challenge if one understands how a weight-distribution hitch works. (97% don't. You won't find it on Stupid Tube). Low center of gravity plus better suspension & steering sophistication are what's wanted.

.

I can't argue with what you said but I have to wonder what unibody car you used that could tow in excess of 7k.


Big block equipped Chrysler. Plymouth or Dodge.

Unibody is stronger than body on frame. Torsional twist is easier to control.

 

[TheTanSedan]

What's painfully obvious is that you don't know Jack about how a weight distribution hitch works. "Payload" is marketing. Means zero. Doesn't apply to the subject.

The limits are the axle/wheel/tire ratings.

Start as you should. A numerical baseline.

1). Take it to the CAT Scale at a truckstop. Empty of everything EXCEPT what's yours that never leaves the vehicle until you sell it.

2). Max fuel. Top off.

3). Get the reading. (Phone app if you want). The printed ticket comes up at the fuel desk inside.

4). Make a permanent note of the door sticker limits. Show the value remaining between the scale ticket and the limits. Both axles. What are they?

5). Whats the FF/RR WEIGHT BALANCE? Show as percentage.

Now, take it back with what you consider a reasonable load of cargo. Get another scale reading after tank top off.

Whats the percentage change on each axle from TARE to the present load? What's the percentage change to the gross?

No matter the weight added, it will nearly all be on the rear axle. That's by design.

So how is it you all miss that the device which cures the problem of trailer tongue weight is accurately known as a weight-distribution hitch?

The old pattern of distribution was known as the Rule of One Third. An 1100-lb tongue weight got spread over three axles, not just one. It'll be a little above 70% TW on the tie vehicle rear axle given that the crap pickup factory hitch receivers of today aren't anywhere near as effective in weight transfer as the custom ones we had built from factory-supplied schematics.

One aims to restore the Steer Axle weight value to what it was when solo. Three weighing same day. (Record cold overnight tire pressure).

Loaded for camping. Top off fuel. Max fresh water and propane. All passengers aboard each time.

1). Cross scale with hitch tensioned after a rough-in at home. (As much rearward hitch head tilt as possible). Trailer dead-level. In the bubble measured at doorway.

2). Cross scale again with only change being to remove all hitch tension.

3). Cross third time after dropping trailer.

For you noobs, the Steer Axle value in 1 & 3 needs to be the same. That's the starting point for dynamic testing.

Once accomplished, the next is tire pressure. Consult the manufacturer Load & Pressure Table to dial in exactly. Not over or under. Inside the vehicle manufacturer range (You NEVER use tire pressure to change handling or steering. You just screwed them and braking if you do). Trailer tires to the maximum on the sidewall.

The next couple of hours is on the road. The feel. As steering corrections are minimized. Pull off after this cruise-control steady state and check tire pressure rise. Should be no more than 7%.

Additional changes to hitch settings is in percentage forward to more than 100% of solo value. And then less. Get it right and it tracks on rails.

Next is brake testing. Given that bearing preset and brakes are properly adjusted (verify, never assume)

Your combined vehicle will now stop faster then the TV will when solo.

Test it. Full on from 65-mph to dead stop.

Fingertip steering and faster braking. If it doesn't, you screwed up. Just keep at it. The relationships become clear after only a short while.

The new guys with twenty years of RV trailer towing aren't your friend. Know nothing. Never had anything but a crap rig that wasn't even hitched right.

Haven't even a clue of what great design in the tow vehicle — hitch rigging — travel trailer are like. No basis of comparison with what's best and failed at hitching their own

"Best" NEVER includes pickups or box-shape trailers on leaf springs. Or drum brakes.

Steering, braking and handling are what count.

Test it.

I started more than fifty years ago. A schoolkid. Who'd have done a better job than any of you so-called adults. It's physics. Formulas. It's all predictable. Repeatable. Simple.

"Safety" is stability. Being able to remain lane-centered no matter what. Or take the emergency maneuver that won't roll the rig. Stop faster.

Any of you think my 21,000-lb Peterbilt is more stable than an 8,000-lb pickup? My 60,000-lb trailer more stable? (any type).

If you believe a pickup the best choice, prove it. In scale weighing (3) from above, you need to be near 50/50 weight balance for best performance. And that gear secured on or ahead of the rear axle so that, in a rollover, it doesn't move.

O, you'll have a rig that can't stop — nose-down trailer hopping on the front axle and continually wandering hooked to a truck with near empty bed. Inadequate weight distribution or steering apportion — and it'll be familiar as only the trailer front axle and truck front axle are doing the braking. Two axles. Not the four provided. Gee, I need a bigger truck!. No, it needed more weight to each axle.

Can't fix stupid. You choose. Right now, that's the shoe that fits. As it stands, I can do maneuvers with my 63' combined travel trailer rig that would roll a far lighter and shorter combination. Stop sooner. Better fuel mileage where the rest is the same. Less wear on tires and chassis. Etc.

There's nothing hard about any of it. Just some time. Maybe some tools. And, it goes faster and easier with a friend. His rig one weekend. Yours, another.

This is noob level. There's more. (Finesse).

Oh yeah. Andy Thomson is my age. Learned when I did. He and his Dad formularized what worked and didn't. Does SAE consider your expert friend a consultant to their work on this subject? Has your expert friend set up 12,000 combinations? CAN AM RV website is a great tool to leave the knuckle-draggers behind. See the article, "How to Set Your Torsion Bars", as the at-home rough-in before going to the scale.

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