Schaeffer’s 9000 vs Amsoil SS for NON-DI application

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Originally Posted by Shannow
There's a difference between DOING the tests, and claiming that they meet or exceed the tests.

For e.g. take oil A that meets Sequence IVA (wear test)...do a 4 ball on it, then on amsoil, bingo, Amsoil meets or exceeds...without the expensive test.

We don't know if that's what they do (they won't tell us anything other than trust us)...we don't know that's not what they don't do.

The "nothing blew up tests", or "the pile of failed engines" don't demonstrate for a second that they meet the industry tests that they claim.


They list the the ISO certified tests they have supposedly tested the oil against. The 4 ball test is only one of them. Check the data bulletins posted for each product and you will see.
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Mainia
If you are in the USA you don't need to worry about the cert., you have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and you are exceeding oil requirements with Amsoil SS. .


The Amsoil representation of MM is wrong.
Their meets or exceeds is "trust us"

Do you have evidence that they meet or exceed anything (bar P limits) in the standard suite of API testing ?


Show me mass failures or horror stories or bankruptcies of the company. I can show you my Santa Fe that ran the majority of its life on Amsoil but I guess it was just an exception right? I "got lucky" I didn't suffer from their "Marketing practices"

Heck show me a bad UOA of Amsoil on here where the lubricant didn't hold up well. There is lots of them. Turbo applications, Direct Injection, Timing Chain eating engines and many more. Surely we would see TBN dropping like a fly or TAN shooting through the roof if they were mixing this stuff in their garage and standing behind marketing.
 
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Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by StevieC

massive operations in Superior, WI


Have you seen their "massive operations"? I have. A nice, newer, office building in Superior, Wi on Tower Avenue.


I saw a behind the scenes video some time back that showed the facility and the production lines. But no I haven't actually visited the place. It's on my list of things to do if I get to go to WI.
 
Fact is people here like to hate on Amsoil, it has been that way over a decade that I have been here. To each their own, but I would strongly sugguest they run their own tests before condemning an oil simply because they don't agree with the way they market the oil or choose not to write big cheques to officially license most of their products allowing them more flexibility to in my opinion build a better oil that doesn't need to comply with API constraints.

To address even these concerns they came out with a line of API licensed oils for those that would rather this to sleep at night instead of the much better signature series formulas where they aren't constrained by levels of things like ZDDP. Surely an evil company out to get people with shady practices wouldn't have gone to this length and if they can produce an API licensed oil why can't the produce better products as well?

Talk to all the folks here that use Amsoil (you can figure this out by the UOA's posted by users) and ask them yourself what they think. That is if you decide to go the Amsoil route over the other oil but like I said in the beginning both will serve you well from what I see here. The one I have experience with (Amsoil) and the other I do not but it seems to do well for those that use it.

cheers3.gif
 
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by demarpaint
^^ I don't trust their claims either.^^


Don't, that's everyones decision. But I hope it's an educated one and not simply because they choose to market through their MLM system and not typical channels.
Again if they were shady they wouldn't have been around since the 1970's and have massive operations in Superior, WI with ever increasing sales if they were killing engines / transmissions.

They also have a line of API licensed engine/transmission oils for those concerned about warranty. Just so you know.


I know all about it, believe me. I don't trust them, or the hype that surrounds them. If I'm going with a small company boutique oil, given the two the OP asked about, Schaeffer's gets my vote. I'll leave it at that.
wink.gif



Please share this. It's relevant and I'm interested.
 
They don't have a production line. They don't "make" oil. They have an office building and warehouse. Their oil is blended and bottled by an outside source.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
They don't have a production line. They don't "make" oil. They have an office building and warehouse. Their oil is blended and bottled by an outside source.


Really? Check this video out at around 4:29
 
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Really? Warren (just an example) will blend and put into any bottle an oil of your choice. And, if your nice to them, will allow your camera crew come in and film.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Really? Warren (just an example) will blend and put into any bottle an oil of your choice. And, if your nice to them, will allow your camera crew come in and film.


Show me your proof this isn't their production facility.

Here is more proof. at 4:47 their packaging lines showing the bottling side of the plant.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
So now with these videos posted does this look like a shady company?

Absolutely it does not. It also shows that money is not the limiting factor in not obtaining certifications and licenses.
 
I went back to the oil analysis on my shaeffers compressor oil and it was done at Polaris Labs , so I have Oxidation figures where you can tell if it has any Esters in it by this figure. Shaeffers had a 3 and Summit's POE has a 123, So the Shaeffers I would say is ONLY a group 3. More lying from Shaeffers Full synthetic, my ars, better then OEM, more BS.

Anyone have any Shaeffers UOA/VOA figures that came from Polaris, because I know Amsoil SS has a 48 in Oxidation and Redline is around 85, I am willing to bet Shaeffers will be a 3 and meaning just a group 3 . Don't get me wrong group 3 is more then adequate for non turbo engines. I would have no problem using a group 3 and did for many years, if I did not have a turbo and on boost all the time as I am. Then bring into the fact I want a group 4/5 because my car is out in Minnesota -25 deg mornings cranking away and I don't like thicker then "honey oil" in my motors if I can help it.

I think I would side with a shaeffers hater more then a Amsoil hater because the shaeffers hater is going on emotion and UOA pulls from common none rough service UOA's which mean nothing. Where Amsoil we have rough service and high use turbo UOA and race proven use. I will try to find some shaeffers UOA/VOA from Polaris which you know is used by 3 party sellers too. So you just have to look for the Polaris form style to know it is Polaris Labs test oil.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by StevieC
So now with these videos posted does this look like a shady company?

Absolutely it does not. It also shows that money is not the limiting factor in not obtaining certifications and licenses.


I explained this above as to why they choose not to license all their oils and why they do have 1 line that is licensed. I'm sure they have the money if they wanted to license it but why with ever increasing sales and with the flexability to build a great oil not constrained by the API limited things like ZDDP because they think it poisons converters over time. That is only if the oil makes it to the converter.

My Santa Fe went 300K miles on Amsoil non-licensed with the original cats intact.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by demarpaint
^^ I don't trust their claims either.^^


Don't, that's everyones decision. But I hope it's an educated one and not simply because they choose to market through their MLM system and not typical channels.
Again if they were shady they wouldn't have been around since the 1970's and have massive operations in Superior, WI with ever increasing sales if they were killing engines / transmissions.

They also have a line of API licensed engine/transmission oils for those concerned about warranty. Just so you know.


I know all about it, believe me. I don't trust them, or the hype that surrounds them. If I'm going with a small company boutique oil, given the two the OP asked about, Schaeffer's gets my vote. I'll leave it at that.
wink.gif



Please share this. It's relevant and I'm interested.

Share what? My opinion of the company, their products, sales, the hype and fan club that surrounds it. No thanks, I'm not in the mood to fuel a fire. My views have been posted about them over the years. With regard to them, they haven't changed. There are companies I have changed my opinion on, if I do with Amsoil I'll post it here, if the need arises. Use what you like and believe in, that's what I do.
wink.gif
 
What part of "YOU CAN NOT LICENSE/CERTIFIED AMSOIL SIGNATURE SERIES" can't you get???? Amsoil SS can NEVER be API licensed or cerified , It HAS TOO MUCH Phosphorus to get approved.....and that is a good thing! It has too robust an add-pack.
 
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Thanks for the video StevieC. That is not the building I was referring to. That building is at the south end of Superior along the St. Claire river. I'll ask my brother about it and check it out next time I'm up there.

My brother, who lives near there, used to be a distributor in the 80's. When he quit selling and using I asked him why. He said he couldn't keep up with their formulation changes.
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
There's a difference between DOING the tests, and claiming that they meet or exceed the tests.

For e.g. take oil A that meets Sequence IVA (wear test)...do a 4 ball on it, then on amsoil, bingo, Amsoil meets or exceeds...without the expensive test.

We don't know if that's what they do (they won't tell us anything other than trust us)...we don't know that's not what they don't do.

The "nothing blew up tests", or "the pile of failed engines" don't demonstrate for a second that they meet the industry tests that they claim.



https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...rcent-synthetic-motor-oil/?code=ASMQT-EA

There is quite a bit of testing data along with test results and TDS information here.
 
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