Schaeffer’s 9000 vs Amsoil SS for NON-DI application

[lukejo]

I'm intrigued by Shaeffer's 9000 in 5w30, and all of the anti-wear additives it purports to contain. It claims to meet Dexos 1. Amsoil states it meets Gen 2. Amsoil has lower NOACK and higher TBN. While Amsoil's site IS marketing, it does at least document percentages of performance as compared to required certification tests, etc. Scaeffer's site is extremely general and vague in nature.
I'm wondering, in a 5w30 application not requiring Gen 2 (NA), and not utilizing extended OCI's, would Shaeffer's provide better wear protection than Amsoil under more severe driving, such as lots of towing?
Please just comment on this comparison/contrast...I obviously know there are other comparable oils at Walmart. (I don't see many S9000 UOAs to compare)

 

[demarpaint]

Good luck getting a factual answer. Me I'd go with the Schaeffer's for a non-DI application.

 

[StevieC]

They both seem to be excellent lubricants from peoples experiences and the UOA's we see posted here. Use what you are comfortable with.

I found out yesterday that Amsoil has done their own internal testing to make sure they meet the requirements of Dexos as listed on their sites technical information, but they haven't spent the money to register it officially with GM. I have a copy of that e-mail if you want to see it.

That said I have used Amsoil for over a decade now both in my Transmissions and Engine and have nothing but excellent results. Would that have happened with Schaeffer's as well? Most likely because neither lubricant manufacturer seems to skimp on producing quality lubricants.

I would run both and do comparative UOA's under the same mileage and see how things like the TBN/TAN stack up against each other and see if they stay in grade etc. for your application for the time you intend to run it. Amsoil really shines at the longer change intervals which is what most of their oils are designed for.

Good luck!

 

[Shannow]

I would like to see it...the face of Amsoil on BITOG has failed to deliver his promised information on how they actually test to provide their claims of "meets or exceeds" on multiple times.

It's got nothing to do with them paying licencing, but all to do with then having to follow the base oil interchange guidelines if they DO certify their oils...IMO.

 

[StevieC]

Shannow,

Here it is copied and pasted. I can forward it to you if you PM me your e-mail address.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steven,

No we are not on the list because you have to pay to be on the list and we just don't do that. With that being said we do meet all the specs.


Have a great day, and please let me know if you have any further questions.




Nick Amey

Technical Service Representative



AMSOIL Inc.

ADDRESS:1 AMSOIL Center, Superior Wi 54880

E-MAIL: [email protected]

PHONE 715-392-7101 EXT.6020

FAX 715-399-6551


From: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 1:45 PM
Subject: Technical Service Contact Form

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name: Steven C
Email: XXXXXX @ XXXXX .com
Comments:
ZO:
Add'l Info:

The OE series oil that is API Licensed. Does it carry actual Dexos 1 Gen 2 certifications from GM or is it just a statement from Amsoil that it meets these specifications and isn't officially licensed? Also what is the license number so I can keep this on file for warranty purposes.

Thanks, Steve

I am a customer: [YES]

 

[Shannow]

StevieC,
thankyou.
No need for the PM, as it serves sufficiently as is.


Originally Posted by StevieC
Shannow,

Here it is copied and pasted. I can forward it to you if you PM me your e-mail address.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steven,

No we are not on the list because you have to pay to be on the list and we just don't do that. With that being said we do meet all the specs.


Have a great day, and please let me know if you have any further questions.




Nick Amey

Technical Service Representative



AMSOIL Inc.

ADDRESS:1 AMSOIL Center, Superior Wi 54880

E-MAIL: [email protected]

PHONE 715-392-7101 EXT.6020

FAX 715-399-6551


From: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 1:45 PM
Subject: Technical Service Contact Form



They don't tell you, as I've asked before how exactly they "meet" the specs that they claim.
One of the diesel tests in particular has been on a "I'll get back to the thread inside a week" for a few years now. Following on from a statement that the particular OEM test was proprietary and too expensive.

I trust that they make a decent product, I don't trust their claims...one of which was that an oil met A3/B4, while the data sheet showed an HTHS of 3.4...

 

[demarpaint]

^^ I don't trust their claims either.^^

 

[StevieC]

From the reading I've done they will find out what the required specifications are and will do their own internal testing. I think we would have heard lots of horror stories by now from their users if they didn't meet the specifications especially because they market most of their oils for extended drain intervals.

Can you imagine going 25,000 miles in a Dexos specified engine? That said there are folks running these oils in Dexos required engine that have posted UOA's and the lubricant doesn't seem overly stressed by it and in the observable wear metal spectrum on the UOA's the metals seem normal.

It's a company that has been around since the 1970's based on word of mouth with sales increasing year after year and if one takes a look through other forums they will see folks who have had excellent results with their fluids. The off roading community loves the severe gear because it stands up to real punishment where other lubes will fail. So I think they have their ducks in a row.

This is all speculation on my part however like I said we will always hear the bad if it's out there and never the good and I can't seem to find bad out there on Amsoil and that combined with my personal experiences makes it good enough for me. Also because where I live Amsoil is about the same cost as an off the shelf synthetic and I would rather it shipped to my door rather than have to hunt for the grade, type and price.

Good luck to the OP again in his decision.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
^^ I don't trust their claims either.^^


Don't, that's everyones decision. But I hope it's an educated one and not simply because they choose to market through their MLM system and not typical channels.
Again if they were shady they wouldn't have been around since the 1970's and have massive operations in Superior, WI with ever increasing sales if they were killing engines / transmissions.

They also have a line of API licensed engine/transmission oils for those concerned about warranty. Just so you know.

 

[Mainia]

Ahhhh, Amsoil SS can't be API certified, their add-pack is too robust to pass the reduced phosphorus API calls for. That is why the cheaper OE Amsoil technically can be certified. Sorry I don't want to pay an extra &.50 a quart just to see a cert on the bottle. If you are in the USA you don't need to worry about the cert., you have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and you are exceeding oil requirements with Amsoil SS. The manufactures know this. They just want API oil so you don't use private labeled oil from "Chip's Food & Fuel" that has NO add-pack to speak of.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by demarpaint
^^ I don't trust their claims either.^^


Don't, that's everyones decision. But I hope it's an educated one and not simply because they choose to market through their MLM system and not typical channels.
Again if they were shady they wouldn't have been around since the 1970's and have massive operations in Superior, WI with ever increasing sales if they were killing engines / transmissions.

They also have a line of API licensed engine/transmission oils for those concerned about warranty. Just so you know.


I know all about it, believe me. I don't trust them, or the hype that surrounds them. If I'm going with a small company boutique oil, given the two the OP asked about, Schaeffer's gets my vote. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Shannow]

There's a difference between DOING the tests, and claiming that they meet or exceed the tests.

For e.g. take oil A that meets Sequence IVA (wear test)...do a 4 ball on it, then on amsoil, bingo, Amsoil meets or exceeds...without the expensive test.

We don't know if that's what they do (they won't tell us anything other than trust us)...we don't know that's not what they don't do.

The "nothing blew up tests", or "the pile of failed engines" don't demonstrate for a second that they meet the industry tests that they claim.

 

[lukejo]

Does Shaeffer's not attract the same criticism/skepticism? I see they are claiming to meet/exceed a whole host of certifications, including Dexos, as well.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by Mainia
If you are in the USA you don't need to worry about the cert., you have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and you are exceeding oil requirements with Amsoil SS. .


The Amsoil representation of MM is wrong.
Their meets or exceeds is "trust us"

Do you have evidence that they meet or exceed anything (bar P limits) in the standard suite of API testing ?

 

[lukejo]

Originally Posted by lukejo
Does Shaeffer's not attract the same criticism/skepticism? I see they are claiming to meet/exceed a whole host of certifications, including Dexos, as well.

Searching past threads, they don't seem to be criticized in the same manner. Is it just because there are more people that are big fans of Amsoil, or, is Shaeffer's formula/results more respected in some way? (Again, back to my OP.)

 

[RDY4WAR]

I've never personally used Schaeffer's. My uncle did in his S10 drag truck and liked it. I have been using Amsoil for many years though. It's in 3 of my 4 vehicles currently and the 4th will most likely be switched over by the end of the year. I run Amsoil SS 5w30 in a 2002 Tahoe 5.3L V8 with 234k miles and 10k OCI, half of those miles are towing a 6,000 lbs load, and the UOAs look excellent. I run Amsoil Dominator 5w-20 in a '93 Camaro with the 5.7L LT1 (OEM spec is 5w30) with strictly track use and it holds up very well. My wife's 2006 Nissan Altima 2.5L 4 cylinder has 228k miles and has used Amsoil SS 5w30 since 118k miles. It doesn't leak or consume oil, and the inside of the engine is very clean.

I couldn't care less if an oil meets some superficial certification, especially one catered more toward keeping the EPA happy than keeping your engine happy. I'll keep using what works.

 

[Shannow]

Nope, I have asked the face of Schaeffers on BITOG same sorts of questions (including one of their oils whose PDS at the time was 0.6 under spec) and been labelled a hater.

Also labelled a RP hater similarly.

 

[Mainia]

Hey guys, don't get all "bonered up" on Shaeffer's, they are nothing but a group 3 oil company. I used their supposed "full synthetic" air compressor oil and it almost took out my $10,000 air compressor. I know for a fact it was a group 3 oil because I gelled it up in 200 hrs and THANK GOD, I did an oil analysis at an very early time and did not load and go. Granted Atlas Copco air compressors kill even the PAO OEM oil, but Shaeffers assured me their oil was better??? OEM oil is a group 4, and every brand PAO I used would varnish up within the first 600 hr of a 8,000 hr supposed life. But NEVER gelled up. It took a group 5 oil from Summit Industrial Products to get an oil that could take the heat without varnishing up my compressors. I guarantee you Amsoil has far more PAO in it then Shaeffers. Shaeffers can be lying sacks of smit just as easy as Amsoil can, believe me, I was on a very expensive receiving end of doom with shaeffers oil !!!

I still use Shaeffers grease at our plant, great grease.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by StevieC

massive operations in Superior, WI


Have you seen their "massive operations"? I have. A nice, newer, office building in Superior, Wi on Tower Avenue.

 

[Shannow]

massive...we are back to hyperbole...that doesn't demonstrate "meet or exceed"