Schaeffers 7000/10W30, 4384 miles, 2000 Toy Tundra

[INDYMAC]

2000 Toyota Tundra SR5 TRD 4X4
2UZ-FE V-8 engine
Toyota OEM air filter (less than 8K miles on it now)
Purolator PureOne PL 10241 oil filter
Fuel- Shell 89 octane with Marvel Mystery Oil 4oz/10 gal gas (does great at quieting injectors)
Oil and filter were changed with this sample. Schaeffers 10W30 and PureOne filter again.

Samples:
A. Schaeffers Supreme 7000 #703 10W30/API SM w/PureOne Filter
138,140 miles on vehicle
4384 miles on oil and filter
Dyson Analysis
B. Pennzoil Platinum 5W30/API SM w/PureOne Filter
128,042 miles on vehicle
3125 miles on oil and filter
Blackstone Labs
C. Valvoline MaxLife synthetic 10W30/API SL w/PureOne Filter
114,973 miles on vehicle
4811 miles on oil and filter
Blackstone Labs
D. Valvoline MaxLife synthetic 5W30/API SL w/PureOne Filter
98,960 miles on vehicle
5080 miles on oil and filter
Blackstone Labs

Element/A(SCH)/B(PP)/C(ML)/D(ML)/Universal Average from B/S labs
Aluminum/3/1/1/2/2
Chromium/0/0/0/1/0
Iron/6/3/1/5/6
Copper/2/2/2/3/4
Lead/4/8/9/12/2
Tin/0/0/2/1/0
Molyb/218/49/223/204/58
Nickel/1/0/0/1/0
Manganese/NA/0/0/0/1
Silver/0/0/0/0/0
Titanium/0/0/0/0/0
Potassium/0/0/0/0/1
Boron/6/26/7/0/60
Silicon/15/10/10/9/13
Sodium/12/2/0/3/10
Calcium/1463/2642/2836/2826/2239
Magnesium/8/13/11/20/125
Phosphorus/716/640/688/731/682
Zinc/718/746/795/808/806
Barium/0/0/6/0/0
Antimony/0/NA/NA/NA/NA
Vanadium/0/NA/NA/NA/NA
Visc 40C/60.8/NA/NA/NA/NA
Visc 100C/9.2/NA/NA/NA/NA
SUS @ 210F/NA/59.7/66.2/63.9/56-65
Flash Point/300F/365F/380F/385F/>365F
Fuel%/1.46/ Antifreeze/0/0/0/0/0
Water/0/0/0/0/ Insolubles/NA/0.2/0.2/0.6/ TAN/1.19/NA/NA/NA/ Oxidation/14/NA/NA/NA/ Nitration/9/NA/NA/NA/ KF/568/NA/NA/NA/ TBN/2.2/4.2/NA/4.0/>1.0
Soot/0/NA/NA/NA/ Viscosity index/131/NA/NA/NA/NA
Sulfate byproduct/20/NA/NA/NA/20 or less (DA)

I really like this engine oil. I've been trying to lower the somewhat high levels of Pb on previous UOA's. Although the oil sheared quite a bit from fuel dilution, the Schaeffers' proprietary additives seemed to still hold up well against wear. Terry made a comment about this oil shearing "by design" and holding up well regardless. He was also surprised that they don't use Antimony as an additive anymore. Too expensive? For the green lovers out there, this oil is green in color!

 

[tackleberry625]

To me it looks like the PP and Val did better that the Schaeffer's and I'm sure they are cheaper too. Good to see that you use MMO in the gas. Good stuff? On an off note, have you had any probs with your tranny?

 

[BigBadf350]

to me it looks like the 10w-30's performed the best.

you cant compare dyson's #'s to BSL's. i think you would see it outperform if you did blackstone UOA on the 7000.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
To me it looks like the PP and Val did better that the Schaeffer's and I'm sure they are cheaper too.


Unfortunately, the two different analysis labs won't allow for an apples-to-apples comparison of the elemental wear numbers.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
To me it looks like the PP and Val did better that the Schaeffer's and I'm sure they are cheaper too. Good to see that you use MMO in the gas. Good stuff? On an off note, have you had any probs with your tranny?


If you look a little closer, you'll notice that the Pb wear rate was the highest with PP. The lowest Pb wear rate wasn't even a contest. Schaeffers is the winner. Terry says the higher Fe is a result of increasing fuel dilution. Unfortunately, my truck is a casualty of using an over oiled air filter (TRD) too long. The MAF screens need cleaned up.

My tranny works better than it ever has now. I tried several different ATF's with diminishing results. The 2-3 shift kept getting more violent with each new choice. I finally found Schaeffers #204SAT ATF and it works like a charm. I honestly think I've found the answer to a situation that was getting very depressing.

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
To me it looks like the PP and Val did better that the Schaeffer's and I'm sure they are cheaper too. Good to see that you use MMO in the gas. Good stuff? On an off note, have you had any probs with your tranny?


If you look a little closer, you'll notice that the Pb wear rate was the highest with PP. The lowest Pb wear rate wasn't even a contest. Schaeffers is the winner. Terry says the higher Fe is a result of increasing fuel dilution. Unfortunately, my truck is a casualty of using an over oiled air filter (TRD) too long. The MAF screens need cleaned up.

My tranny works better than it ever has now. I tried several different ATF's with diminishing results. The 2-3 shift kept getting more violent with each new choice. I finally found Schaeffers #204SAT ATF and it works like a charm. I honestly think I've found the answer to a situation that was getting very depressing.


Oh ok......the reason I was asking about the tranny was because I have a 02 Tundra and I heard so much about the plantary gears going out in the Tundra's trannys with low mileage. I have 72K on mine and so far no probs. I just did a flush using Val ATF and added lube guard. Good luck.

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
To me it looks like the PP and Val did better that the Schaeffer's and I'm sure they are cheaper too.


Unfortunately, the two different analysis labs won't allow for an apples-to-apples comparison of the elemental wear numbers.


I think Blackstone may be slipping in their PPM conversions or something.

 

[salesrep]

Indymac it looks like you have a fit. Glad to hear all is working out with the Schaeffers.

 

[Mokanic]

Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
To me it looks like the PP and Val did better that the Schaeffer's and I'm sure they are cheaper too. Good to see that you use MMO in the gas. Good stuff? On an off note, have you had any probs with your tranny?


If you look a little closer, you'll notice that the Pb wear rate was the highest with PP. The lowest Pb wear rate wasn't even a contest. Schaeffers is the winner. Terry says the higher Fe is a result of increasing fuel dilution. Unfortunately, my truck is a casualty of using an over oiled air filter (TRD) too long. The MAF screens need cleaned up.

My tranny works better than it ever has now. I tried several different ATF's with diminishing results. The 2-3 shift kept getting more violent with each new choice. I finally found Schaeffers #204SAT ATF and it works like a charm. I honestly think I've found the answer to a situation that was getting very depressing.


Oh ok......the reason I was asking about the tranny was because I have a 02 Tundra and I heard so much about the plantary gears going out in the Tundra's trannys with low mileage. I have 72K on mine and so far no probs. I just did a flush using Val ATF and added lube guard. Good luck.



Isn't it amazing that you you hear "so much" about a problem that you can't find an owner that has actually had the problem? As a Toyota tech, I have seen a very few of the tranny problem you desribe and each of them were heavy tow vehicles. Toyota quickly made updates to the trannies.
Schaeffer's 204SAT and a bottle of Lubeguard are a great combination. I run it in my Yodas and Hondas with super results.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
Originally Posted By: tackleberry625
To me it looks like the PP and Val did better that the Schaeffer's and I'm sure they are cheaper too.


Unfortunately, the two different analysis labs won't allow for an apples-to-apples comparison of the elemental wear numbers.


I think Blackstone may be slipping in their PPM conversions or something.




Here are some ways that help me to compare these reports from different labs.

First off, I ran sample "A" 1.4X longer than sample "B". So you have to take wear metals that normally increase with mileage (Fe) into account.

Secondly, I ran a concurrent UOA of GC Gold on my G35 in July 2007 to both BSL and DA. I posted a thread in this forum if you want to look up the minutia, but here is a cliff notes version of what you can probably expect to find differentially in both spectral analysis, and all the other categories included in the numerical data from these fine labs:

Element/DA/BSL/Delta
Aluminum/2/2/0
Chromium/1/1/0
Iron/9/8/1.125X>
Copper/12/7/1.714X>
Lead/21/14/1.5X>
Tin/0/1/?
Molyb/9/10/1.111X Nickel/1/0/?
Boron/9/7/1.286X>
Silicon/17/15/1.133X>
Sodium/22/10/2.2X>
Calcium/1634/2076/1.27X Magnesium/381/435/1.141X Phosphorus/885/786/1.126X>
Zinc/1032/984/1.049X>
Viscosity/12.2Cst@100C/65.4SUS@210F/same?
Flashpoint/320F/385F/1.203X Fuel%/1.29/2.58X>
Coolant%/0.83/0.0/?

All the other numerical data was either reported as zero, or that parameter was not reported on both UOA's to compare.

Since I anticipated an apples to oranges comparison for trends, I felt I needed to do at least one concurrent UOA for that vehicle. I know many, including myself, have been dissappointed with Blackstone with some of their methods. But, I've never found them to be inconsistant as I review all the UOA's that I have done with them. That being said, I think Terry's service is without peer. As I've said before, I think everyone should do at least one UOA with his service. You won't be dissappointed.

I hope this information helps you evaluate my 2000 Tundra report with Schaeffers Supreme 7000 now.

 

[spiderbypass]

I have been considering using Schaeffer's #204 automatic transmission fluid in my wife's 2003 Honda Accord. I like the comprehensiveness of Schaffer's spec sheets on the website, although I do not fully understand what each category means. Their automatic transmission fluid seems like an excellent product, and I am running Scaheffer's 5w20 in her car now with Redline D-4 in transmission. I have not had her oil analyzed yet, but may have Terry do the christening analysis on her car, which has about 90k miles on it now.

 

[Mokanic]

The Schaeffer's 204SAT works great in Toyota and Hondas. I'm sure someone will speak up and ask if it's T-4 certified and I don't know. I doubt Schaeffer wastes the money to have it done. I have it in a number of customer's cars with 60K on the fluid and it still as clean and red as the day I put it in. No shudder,slip,ect. The only other fluid I have seen hold up as well is Amsoil's ATF.

 

[spiderbypass]

I have redline d4 in her honda now, but will be installing a magnefine filter, and was thinking of draining d4 and putting schaeffer's in tranny, and then doing once a year drain and fill with scaheffer's for rest of transmission life. I respect Schaeffer's comprehensive listings of data on their website. I went with redline before since Honda's auto transmission uses a design similar to manual transmissions, and thought redline would provide extra protection since it is GL4 rated. I recognize I really dont understand what that all means, but it seemed to make sense. I will be doing oil analysis for schaeffer 5w20 at about 8k mile interval in her car. I have been running high priced, lead filled boutique oils(Neo) in my accord presently, and would like to consider schaeffer's if her oil analysis looks good. I have oilguard bypass filter on my accord and run drain intervals between 12-15 k. I have gone for high end synthetics to match the high priced filtration in car, but would like to try schaeffers. I wish their tbn was a bit higher for extended drains.

 

[Mokanic]

Do not let the TBN numbers mislead you. I just posted a 13,000 mile interval in a customer's Tacoma. I have run the 5W20,5W30, Schaeffer's 7000 in Toyotas and Hondas 10K without any bypass filtration. The stuff will hold TBN as good as any oil. I have a 03 and a 05 Accord(2.4L) that have run the 5W20 for 10K with some reserve left. Ther are oils that will run longer but most are 2-3 bucks more a qt. I guess what i'm saying is that the Schaeffer oil is hard if not impossible to beat in it's price range. Search the UOA sections and you'll find plenty of 10-14K intervals in gas engines and some really long intervals in big-sump diesel engines.

 

[Bror Jace]

Why is the silicon and sodium up in this example? Are either of those known additives? They look like extra contaminants to me.

Schaeffers put up the numbers that it did with what looks like additional outside contamination.

 

[INDYMAC]

According to a VOA that Johnny posted recently from BSL for Supreme 7000 5W30, it does have some Si (anti-foam) and Na in it's formula. The VOA also showed the TBN to be 7.4.
My UOA of 10W30 included a week of driving around a very dusty South Dakota farm that hadn't seen rain in awhile. That may have spiked the Si some.
When Terry addressed the 2.2 TBN, he didn't seem to be too concerned. He said Schaeffers uses an "active TBN". I've never heard that term before.
Even though it's a relatively expensive syn blend at $5/qt, I think I'll stay with it for awhile in the Tundra and do another UOA in a year or two.

 

[dcoyne78]

My experience comparing Blackstone and Dyson was somewhat different(than the comment above). I had been using Blackstone and got 12 ppm Fe at 12k and 15k. At 14k (same oil change interval) a Dyson analysis gave 20 ppm Fe. So I agree with the comments that a Dyson/Blackstone comparison is not apples/apples, I also noted significant differences in Al, Si, Flashpoint, and Fuel Dilution. YMMV.

Dennis

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
My experience comparing Blackstone and Dyson was somewhat different(than the comment above). I had been using Blackstone and got 12 ppm Fe at 12k and 15k. At 14k (same oil change interval) a Dyson analysis gave 20 ppm Fe. So I agree with the comments that a Dyson/Blackstone comparison is not apples/apples, I also noted significant differences in Al, Si, Flashpoint, and Fuel Dilution. YMMV.

Dennis


Thanks Dennis. I guess it's "almost" safe to assume that DA will report Fe levels somewhere between 13-33% higher than BSL then.

 

[dcoyne78]

RI_RS4 reported the following:
"Yes, in a comparison I did Blackstone had Fe at 16 vs Dyson at 10."

I am not sure if he reversed the numbers or not, but my interpretation of this quote is that Dyson returned lower numbers for Fe than Blackstone.

I think your comparison is better than mine because you sent similar samples to each of the labs. I know that I got 12 ppm Fe from BL for two differnt samples of the same oci (the first at 12k and the second at 15k) and the 15k sample was rechecked by BL. I did not have Terry recheck the 20 ppm Fe result at 14k, but he was aware of my previous analyses and I assume his quality control is excellent. I believe that we could assume a 14k result of 12 ppm from BL (there was not any significant amounts of makeup oil added or any filter changes), based on that I get a 50 % higher reading from Dyson (8/16 where 16 is the average of 12 and 20) compared to Blackstone and RI_RS4 got a 46 % lower reading from Dyson and your readings were essentially the same (I don't think a 1 ppm difference is significant). My conclusion is that it is safer not to compare reports from different labs.

Dennis

 

[tackleberry625]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: dcoyne78
My experience comparing Blackstone and Dyson was somewhat different(than the comment above). I had been using Blackstone and got 12 ppm Fe at 12k and 15k. At 14k (same oil change interval) a Dyson analysis gave 20 ppm Fe. So I agree with the comments that a Dyson/Blackstone comparison is not apples/apples, I also noted significant differences in Al, Si, Flashpoint, and Fuel Dilution. YMMV.

Dennis


So which UOA is correct and the most accurate?

Thanks Dennis. I guess it's "almost" safe to assume that DA will report Fe levels somewhere between 13-33% higher than BSL then.




So which UOA is correct and the most accurate?