savage Model 10 muzzleloader.

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For those that arent familiar its a modern. It uses MIR 4227 smokeless as one of its recomended propelants. Im using a bushnell banner ontop of it. Im loading it with TC 250gr shockwave's in super glide sabbots. Im using a empty 220swift brass cartridge for my measure, (im filling it to the top a leveling it off) down the muzzle it goes. Im shooting off a table with the front of the gun on a bi-pod and the rear on a blanket (i substitute for a sandbag) My problem: Im trying to zero this gun at 100 yards, I know its capable of 300Yrds and most experts would zero it at 200yrd. 100Yrds easily takes care of my hunting needs. It seems everytime i get close to zero (or within 1.5-2.0 inches of zero) i start throwing rounds.. some as far off as 6-8 inches.. I know there is shooter error but im not that bad.. esp when focused. Most shots are within 4 inches of zero but that to me is not acceptable.. Scope went to factory last year to make sure its in spec.. it is. I can take 3-4-5 shots and even cut the same hole at 100Yrd's but the i get those "zingers" that are so far out there that i scratch my head I can hit a bullseye at 100yrds and the next shot be 8-10 inches off the mark.. Ive tried swabbing after every shot even though its not needed with this weapon (its not black powder) The only thing i can think of at this point is im not using high pressure black sabbots (magnum sabbots).. but im still fairly accurate or even same hole cut accurate without them (depending).. Any muzzle-loading hunters got a tip for me ? with over $1,000 in this rig i hate moving on.. and i dont want to go back to the cloud.. Much thanks.. p.s. yes everythings tight.. im sure this is a ammo/sabbot/propellant issue.. but im not ruling out anything
 
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My money would be that it is your sabots. I'd go and read up about the sabots. Sounds like there is inconsistency in how they leave the barrel or separate from the projectile. The Sabots are the weak point. They are designed for the low pressure and low temps of Blackpowder. Try something different.
 

OtisBlkR1

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Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
My money would be that it is your sabots. I'd go and read up about the sabots. Sounds like there is inconsistency in how they leave the barrel or separate from the projectile. The Sabots are the weak point. They are designed for the low pressure and low temps of Blackpowder. Try something different.
I just had a long conversation with my dad about this, I think your right. going to go back to the black sabbots.
 
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sabots have a hard job, sort of like trying to balance a broomstick on your finger, and throw it straight up in the air.
 

OtisBlkR1

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I did some follow up research last nite and found that anything other than mugnum black sabbots tents to deliver less than satisfactory results.. deffinately going to go back.. now the question is do i run 250's or 300's for a 100yrd zero
 

OtisBlkR1

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went today and bought 3 kegs of IMR4227 and a keg of "LIL-GUYS" smokeless. decided to go up to 300gr xtp and swithing back over to black sabbots.. Im truly praying that i can get it consistent with this .
 
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I've been reading reloading manuals for about 8 years now. Stick with what is written. Ballisticians are smart guys. They write what they write for a reason. Start with the beginning load and work your way back up whenever you change one component. BTW, I've read articles about your muzzle loader where the author was getting ballistics similar to a .458 win mag. It is an impressive firearm that can take anything in the lower 48, and quite a bit in Alaska. I wish you had yours and I had one just like it.
 

OtisBlkR1

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Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
I've been reading reloading manuals for about 8 years now. Stick with what is written. Ballisticians are smart guys. They write what they write for a reason. Start with the beginning load and work your way back up whenever you change one component. BTW, I've read articles about your muzzle loader where the author was getting ballistics similar to a .458 win mag. It is an impressive firearm that can take anything in the lower 48, and quite a bit in Alaska. I wish you had yours and I had one just like it.
I agree with you. i went off what was written due to the loads being so hard to load.. (was extremely hard getting the loads down the muzzle) so i tried the TC 250's w/superglide sabbots.. made loading 10x easier, but i wasnt as constant as i was before.. this is where the tinkering started... I shoulda just delt with the hard load.. and yes its a pretty awesome gun, ive taken many deer with it already.. I can tell you it kicks like a mule (and thats WITH a limbsaver on it) Im sure you could get yourself into one.. they cant be to hard to find online/used.. Local dealer told me the other day that Savage walked away from them, came back and currently has walked away again.. wonder why ? time to do some searching i guess.
 
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You have to mix & match with a M-L, try different things to see what works best for your setup. The right bore fit is critical, not to tight or to loose. I use a tricked out Knight shooting Blackhorn 209 powder, usually with a 250 grn SST from Hornady. The 'easy-glide' type sabots were to loose for me. I'd also make sure you have total control of your groups at 40-50 yrds before you move to 100. Even with the Savage, I'd try to keep shots under 150 yrds or so. I'll take that 50 yrd chip shot myself.
 

OtisBlkR1

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thanks for everyones input, Ive collected the 3 most popular powders ive found online and im going to work up from the 250, 300, 335. see what happens this weekend. id like to stay under 1.5 at 100yrds
 
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That gun with smokeless is real sensitive to seating pressure, get that exact as possible between shots and groups will really tighten up.
 

OtisBlkR1

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Holly cow.. Im a idiot, Contacted Bushnell after half a wekend ofheadaches with this gun, Decided to ship the scope off to the service center again with the parts grinding on the inside of the scope. As i was removing the scope i noticed how loose the mounts where.. i swear they felt rock solid with the scope mounted, but upon close inspection the rear mount was VERY loose and the front wasnt much better.. so i put thread locker on the mounts and re-tightened and debated.. I know that was my trouble, but im sending the scope out anyways.. depending how fast it comes back i may use it this year for season, or a may not.. My 77/44 wont reach as far, but its dead nuts accurate.. will post back when more happens.
 
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