Running M1 ATF in my Focus 5spd tranny

[KrisZ]

The shifting in my 5spd Focus has become very hard in the mornings lately. I changed the transmission oil last year with Motorcraft full synthetic MTL and while the shifting was great originally, it became increasingly stiff lately. And I'm not talking a bit stiffer than normal, the shifting was really stiff, as if it were -20C outside stiff. I was quite surprised and disappointed at the same time, as I thought MC MTL's cold shift performance would hold up a lot better than it did given great opinions of it on the webs.

I went to my local dealer to price MC MTL and they wanted $40! per quart. So basically any idea of going with the same oil went out the window. I also could not find any GL4 gear lubes locally, so I decided to go with M1 ATF, since apparently my ranny did spec ATF at one point between 2000 and 2001 model years.

So while the shifting performance is night and day, I am a bit concerned about extra wear on the gears, as the additive package found in ATFs is weaker than in MTLs.
I think the tranny should be OK, as I'm not too hard on the vehicle with occasional WOT run here and there and even fewer during colder months.

What do you guys think? Could I perhaps do a franken brew of MTL and ATF or would ATF be ennough? With easier shifting I would think that synchro wear should actually be less than with MTL eventhough the add pack is weaker, but I'm not sure about the gears.

 

[nwjones18]

I honestly don't have any experience with your particular trans, but my truck has the Mazda 5 speed in it and it specs normal ATF and has run on it its entire life. Last change I swapped to syncromesh and it is fine, but really no change in shifting. Truck has 245k.

 

[OVERKILL]

Well, as a data point, the T-5 tranny in the Mustang and Camaro spec'd ATF and actually held up pretty well. I used M1 ATF in mine.

 

[ram_man]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The shifting in my 5spd Focus has become very hard in the mornings lately. I changed the transmission oil last year with Motorcraft full synthetic MTL and while the shifting was great originally, it became increasingly stiff lately. And I'm not talking a bit stiffer than normal, the shifting was really stiff, as if it were -20C outside stiff. I was quite surprised and disappointed at the same time, as I thought MC MTL's cold shift performance would hold up a lot better than it did given great opinions of it on the webs.

I went to my local dealer to price MC MTL and they wanted $40! per quart. So basically any idea of going with the same oil went out the window. I also could not find any GL4 gear lubes locally, so I decided to go with M1 ATF, since apparently my ranny did spec ATF at one point between 2000 and 2001 model years.

So while the shifting performance is night and day, I am a bit concerned about extra wear on the gears, as the additive package found in ATFs is weaker than in MTLs.
I think the tranny should be OK, as I'm not too hard on the vehicle with occasional WOT run here and there and even fewer during colder months.

What do you guys think? Could I perhaps do a franken brew of MTL and ATF or would ATF be ennough? With easier shifting I would think that synchro wear should actually be less than with MTL eventhough the add pack is weaker, but I'm not sure about the gears.


Manual transmissions aren't very hard on fluid. If that transmission has been specd for ATF before I don't see a problem . I'm running royal purple ATF in my Saturn 5sp it does good. I would have used Mobil 1 but I got a better deal on the rp. My assumption is it'll be fine but let's see what others say.

 

[tig1]

My son and I put 354K(Miles) on our 91 Ranger 5 spd with M1 ATF. Performed very well in types on temps.

 

[SatinSilver]

Check out AC Delco mtf FM(friction modified). Honda came out with a tsb addressing 3rd gear grind and it called for using the aforementioned instead of the Honda mtf. No more grinding and the Accord mtf owners swear by it.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The best fluid you can run is the XT-M5-QS fluid. It is a bit expensive, but everyone (myself included) says that it makes the transmission shift excellent. There are online retailers that have it pretty cheap.


I have also heard great reviews about Rotella T6

 

[brandini]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
The best fluid you can run is the XT-M5-QS fluid. It is a bit expensive, but everyone (myself included) says that it makes the transmission shift excellent. There are online retailers that have it pretty cheap.

This or go home.

 

[GutsyGecko]

ATF is perfect. Gear oil is only spec to limit noise.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: brandini
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The best fluid you can run is the XT-M5-QS fluid. It is a bit expensive, but everyone (myself included) says that it makes the transmission shift excellent. There are online retailers that have it pretty cheap.

This or go home.


Except that that's exactly what I installed last year. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna pay over $20 a qt for the stuff to only last one year and then start shifting like molasses even in warm weather.

 

[stchman]

Apparently the fluid for the manual transmission in a Ford Focus of your year is some exotic specific fluid.

The fluid specification is WSD-M2C200–C. Does it suck to run some ultra specific boutique designer expensive fluid, yes. With this being said, I would not try to put something else in the transmission as you could be asking for an expensive repair.

Stick to what the manufacturer recommends.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: brandini
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The best fluid you can run is the XT-M5-QS fluid. It is a bit expensive, but everyone (myself included) says that it makes the transmission shift excellent. There are online retailers that have it pretty cheap.

This or go home.


Except that that's exactly what I installed last year. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna pay over $20 a qt for the stuff to only last one year and then start shifting like molasses even in warm weather.


It didn't help my second gear issue, but both hot and cold shifting is 10x better with the fluid.

It's so much of a difference, I'm not sure if the transmission came with it from the factory!

I would try Rotella T6. It's recommended by a few MTX-75 builders. I have heard a lot of people use T6 successfully but always have seen ATF recommended against.

 

[Whimsey]

I've been using Royal Purple Synchro Max MTL Fluid in my 1996 Contour with the MTX-75 manual tranny. It's the viscosity of ATF, which was originally spec'd for this tranny but with AW and EP additives for a manual tranny. While I don't drive this car in the dead of winter it shifts fine the rest of the time. As I understand ATF fluid caused wear and swelling on some of the tranny parts, that is why Ford went to a manual tranny fluid in 2000.

Whimsey

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
So while the shifting performance is night and day, I am a bit concerned about extra wear on the gears, as the additive package found in ATFs is weaker than in MTLs.


The AW agents in ATF are about 1/3 of that found in application Specific Manual Transmission Fluids, so yes, theoretically wear of gearing and bearings could be three times for ATF's.

See post #3024750 at:

Technology of Maual Transmissions and Lubricants

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
So while the shifting performance is night and day, I am a bit concerned about extra wear on the gears, as the additive package found in ATFs is weaker than in MTLs.


The AW agents in ATF are about 1/3 of that found in application Specific Manual Transmission Fluids, so yes, theoretically wear of gearing and bearings could be three times for ATF's.

See post #3024750 at:

Technology of Maual Transmissions and Lubricants


3x??!?

What's doing the real work here, the oil or the adds?

If the oil viscosity, then adds shouldn't matter that much. If the adds matter, then the viscosity shouldn't matter.

Interesting system...

 

[Hokiefyd]

If ATF is recommended (or was at one time), I can't see how it'd be a durability problem, assuming reasonable use and maintenance. My brother has a supercharged '99 Corvette pushing 500 crank horsepower to the 6-speed manual at the rear wheels, and it uses ATF.

If you're not comfortable with ATF, or if the book for your particular model year recommends a GL-4, have you considered Redline MT-90, if that is indeed appropriate? I drained the factory fill out of my '07 Corolla's manual transmission at 20k miles and filled it with MT-90. The difference in shift feel was night-and-day. The shifter would just GLIDE through the gears. It was wonderful, really. (I seriously miss that car.)

 

[max45]

try using motul motyl-gear 10w-40 semi-synth. it's specialized for manual trannys, and it's GL-4. don't use full synth mtf, because they are too slippery for manual trannys. here in south california it's about 12$ per liter in one specialized store, but here i will send you a link that i found even cheaper on line: http://www.znperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=826011 http://www.motul.com/mx/en/products

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
So while the shifting performance is night and day, I am a bit concerned about extra wear on the gears, as the additive package found in ATFs is weaker than in MTLs.


The AW agents in ATF are about 1/3 of that found in application Specific Manual Transmission Fluids, so yes, theoretically wear of gearing and bearings could be three times for ATF's.

See post #3024750 at:

Technology of Maual Transmissions and Lubricants



Thanks for the read MolaKule! That was pretty interesting.
From reading that thread it looks like M1 ATF is down on viscosity at 100C when compared to MC's synthetic MTF 7.5 cst vs 10.X cst.

I'm still reading on the subject, but so far the shifts are great, smooth and the engagement is very positive where before it was crunchy and really stiff until the oil warmed up.
So at least for now, the plan is to keep ATF in there at least for winter and I'll go from there. Thanks everyone for great input!

 

[OVERKILL]

So you did the swap eh? LOL! I'm intrigued to see how it holds up!

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
So you did the swap eh? LOL! I'm intrigued to see how it holds up!


Oh, I swapped to M1 ATF before starting the thread. I just could not take the stiff shifter in those moderate temps and I could only imagine how stiff it would get in true cold temps. So I swapped it.
I started this thread to get the opinion of our more knowledgeable on the matter members and to have some sort of reference for others.

It is disappointing since I spent $25 per liter last year for the "correct" stuff because I thought it would be my last change for the life of the car, so I did not mind spending the money. The shifts were nice and smooth even during cold winter months and only got really stiff when the temps dipped well below 10C. But after only one year of use, this miracle fluid simply lost its VI, it seems that way at least.