Running a Platinum Plug in a OE Copper Core ENG.

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: pbm

How can we find out if we have a waste spark ignition?
Would my 2008 Corolla 1ZZFE have a wsi?


The easiest way is to open the hood and look. A waste spark setup uses one ignition coil to spark two plugs. Toyota/Hyundai/Mercedes tend to do this with a coil located on top of one plug and a spark plug wire running to the other. Domestics, Isuzu, Mazda, and Mitsubishi generally will use clustered coils with wires from each coil running to the two plugs. GM 4-cylinder DOHC (including Saab) have, in a few setups, used an "ignition cassette" that is a waste spark system with everything other than the plugs all in one plastic housing. Note that when working on a car with an ignition cassette, it's best not to lick the cassette while the engine is running.

 

[ChrisW]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
If its a waste park ignition run the Autolite twin tip or Denso TT to reduce misfire rates - one of each coil pair has to fire backwards (gnd strap to center) and that doesnt work well on Ir finewire.


The NGK laser iridium are noted as having a platinum [gnd] pad, I know that most 'non-oe' performance-type iridium (the IX comes to mind) do not have the platinum pad. I've been using the laser-plats on my bro's S2000 and also in my bro's track miata (miata uses waste-spark. He wants to convert it to COP as the OEM coils are known to fail, however, requires a dwell reducer circuit)

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: pbm
..
How can we find out if we have a waste spark ignition?
Would my 2008 Corolla 1ZZFE have a wsi?

pretty sure that a 08 'rolla would be COP as my 08 1NZ was cop with Ir plugs. No secondary wires.

 

[Cornbread]

Noted!

 

[hattaresguy]

Depends on the motor. Older German engines that spec copper plugs tend to run like [censored] with platinum plugs in them. Also a lot of them used non resistor plugs.

 

[Garak]

Yes, like my old Audi - at least that was the story in the Audi forums. I stuck with the old style plugs. They weren't difficult to change at all.

 

[mechtech2]

Who cares if it is copper or not?
What difference does it make how the internal resistance or heat range is achieved??
This is another internet case of people loving the word 'copper' when talking about spark plugs.
You can have copper plats or iridiums, or plain nickel/steel.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Who cares if it is copper or not?
What difference does it make how the internal resistance or heat range is achieved??
This is another internet case of people loving the word 'copper' when talking about spark plugs.
You can have copper plats or iridiums, or plain nickel/steel.


Yeah it seems like a buzz word, but the funny thing is I can't remember any manufacturer hyping copper plugs! I wonder where this internet urban myth came from?

 

[ahoier]

I always thought it was the "Platinum" and "Double Platinum" that was over-hyped.....then the e3/SplitFire type plugs came about, with multiple electrodes and changed the playing field some more.

That being said, I think I'm gonna try the APP65s in my Dodge Aries

Getting ready to do a full tune up, coil, wires, plugs, fuel filter (yea, again, may as well, it's an ez swap), cap, rotor, just did the air filter with a cheap Drive Works.


I read at allpar, that the Platinums aren't too friendly in the K cars....but I figure I'll take the gamble

They aren't that had to get to if I do need to pull them back out

 

[calvin1]

It's common knowledge on the ford truck board that the Windsors do not run well with anything other than the plain OEM copper Autolites. Some vehicles are more picky than others but it's best to use whatever flavor of plug was original.

 

[G.Frost]

My 88 Accord(carb)runs great on the NGK platinum alternative.
Maybe even a bit smoother idle.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Who cares if it is copper or not?
What difference does it make how the internal resistance or heat range is achieved??
This is another internet case of people loving the word 'copper' when talking about spark plugs.
You can have copper plats or iridiums, or plain nickel/steel.


Yeah it seems like a buzz word, but the funny thing is I can't remember any manufacturer hyping copper plugs! I wonder where this internet urban myth came from?
Again MOST ALL SPARKPLUGS ARE COPPER! This is how the center electrode draws heat away from the tip REGARDLESS of firing tip metal - Nickel, Platinum, Rhodium, Iridium. Now some have a Cu core in the GND strap too - like the Cu core in your Quarter Dollar. Copper conduct heat extremely well - thats why its used in most every plug. The Big deal on the firing end is mass, flame kernal obstruction and eroision prevention. Inside racing we talk about mechanical stability and tune with electrode placement and heatrange and GAP ...

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Who cares if it is copper or not?
What difference does it make how the internal resistance or heat range is achieved??
This is another internet case of people loving the word 'copper' when talking about spark plugs.
You can have copper plats or iridiums, or plain nickel/steel.


A lot of old ignition systems seem to, especially if its a waste spark style.

I guess the electrodes are slightly different and on some motors like say every Mercedes engine built before 1997 platnums can cause all kinds of cool misfires.

Those "split fires" are really bad. I had a Jetta with a misfire that I finally traced to one of the plugs that was a "split fire." A .90 cent copper Bosch plug fixed it.

 

[John With Beastly 302]

Originally Posted By: calvin1
It's common knowledge on the ford truck board that the Windsors do not run well with anything other than the plain OEM copper Autolites. Some vehicles are more picky than others but it's best to use whatever flavor of plug was original.


I wonder why the Windsors don't run well on anything but a OEM copper core plug? Does the platinum coating on the center electrode, for example an Autolite Single Platinum spark plug, add more resistance and therefore produce a weaker spark?

I was talking to a college teacher of a Automotive Department one day about this and he told me it's best to use the OEM plugs. He told me he had seen misfire codes pop up from using an Autolite plug in place of a Motorcraft plug. I thought Autolite made Motorcraft plugs? And I found it hard to believe that running an Autolite plug would cause misfire codes. I've been running Autolite single platinums on my 91' F-250 for the past 8 years and haven't had any misfire codes, but the computer is a OBD 1. Nor have I noticed any difference in performance.

Also in my 6.5 years of mechanic experience I know a copper core plug has no coating on the center electrode. Autolites copper core spark plugs have no coating on the center electrode. Autolite also make a double platinum plug which has a coating on the center electrode tip and the L of the plug. The double platinums are used on vehicles that have coil packs because a coil pack produces opposite polarity on half the plugs I'm pretty sure. At least on the early coil pack ignition systems like on a 97' F-150 with a 4.6. In the opposite polarity the spark jumps from the L of the plug to the center electrode which is why there is a platinum tip on the L. Now on a engine that runs individual coils for each cylinder, like a 2000 F250 with a 5.4 V-8, the OEM Plug is a Single platinum which has a Platinum coating only on the tip of the center electrode.

 

[John With Beastly 302]

I forgot I had brought this up on FTE's website back in november.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1116715-switching-from-copper-to-platinum-spark-plugs.html

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: John With Beastly 302
I wonder why the Windsors don't run well on anything but a OEM copper core plug? Does the platinum coating on the center electrode, for example an Autolite Single Platinum spark plug, add more resistance and therefore produce a weaker spark?


Good question. As for your comment about Autolite, that used to be Ford OEM, many moons ago. It took a while for my dad to get it into his head that Motorcraft came about.

It doesn't seem to be just the Windsors (although that's the most obvious examples). The old 2.3L engines were the same way, and I'm sure there are other examples.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

I tried Bosch Platinums in a '78 351M engine and they fouled out in less than 10k. More conventional Bosch Supers were used next and performed much better.