RP worth over the competition (Walmart Pricing)

[Fredxt]

AMSOIL SS also uses API compliant levels of additives, as can be easily gleaned from the chart.

Nothing from these carefully selected comparisons tells us that the oil is better than AMSOIL SS. HTHS is also omitted from the PDS info, which is interesting, but not surprising.

What are you expecting UOA's to show you?

They have HTHS in datasheet

https://www.royalpurple.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Royal-Purple-HPS-PDS-06July2021-1.pdf

it's 3.8 for HPS 5W30, and I used the PDF from their current webpage link.

If we have enough UOA, then we can compare the oxidations at x-miles on engine-y vs the VOA. The more delta the more oxidation? Lets say I have N UOA on each oil same engine-y and x-mile, we should be able to make some conclusions. Now, if we want to be within 5% p-value we might need many UOAs (large N).

 

[wemay]

Not sarcastic at all! We see the test data, it is better in every way from the other oil in the comparison chart. Was just asking to see if there is a caveat in that conclusion.

I'm a RP fan myself but would not tout a "study" they conducted. As i wouldn't for any other brand doing the same.

 

[Dave1027]

I like RP's gear oil but for motor oil I stick to M1, Pennzoil and Rotella.

 

[OVERKILL]

They have HTHS in datasheet

I'm saying the HTHS isn't present on the PDS section of the picture buster posted.

https://www.royalpurple.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Royal-Purple-HPS-PDS-06July2021-1.pdf

it's 3.8 for HPS 5W30, and I used the PDF from their current webpage link.

Bingo, which means it is massively heavier than both the AMSOIL SS and M1 EP products. Now, why do you think that might have been omitted from the advert?

If we have enough UOA, then we can compare the oxidations at x-miles on engine-y vs the VOA. The more delta the more oxidation? Lets say I have N UOA on each oil same engine-y and x-mile, we should be able to make some conclusions. Now, if we want to be within 5% p-value we might need many UOAs (large N).

The vast majority of UOA's on this site are from Blackstone, which don't include that data. Finding enough data from the same applications likely isn't feasible given the relative rareness of RP use on here, coupled with the same with respect to UOA's and VOA's that include oxidation.

 

[Fredxt]

I'm saying the HTHS isn't present on the PDS section of the picture buster posted.

oh I see.

Bingo, which means it is massively heavier than both the AMSOIL SS and M1 EP products. Now, why do you think that might have been omitted from the advert?

I don't know. Why did they omit it (I see no reason)? I see RP HPS 5w30 100C viscosity is 11.09 vs 10.3 for Amsoil SS 5W30 so it's heavier but HTHS is 3.8 vs 3.11 for Amsoil, it's even higher than Amsoils next SS weitgh 0w40 (3.76, 14.8 viscosity at 100C). An 8% extra viscosity that comes with 22% more HTHS, seems like a good tradeoff (to me). Also they seem to be more shear stable so cannot say it's just VII and will be depleted (at least within OEM OCI).

The vast majority of UOA's on this site are from Blackstone, which don't include that data. Finding enough data from the same applications likely isn't feasible given the relative rareness of RP use on here, coupled with the same with respect to UOA's and VOA's that include oxidation.

Yeah, might not be able to find more data.
So for now we take the blenders claim at the face value RP does not claim long OCI which means for one extra OC a year (lets say at 10K/6mo instead of 25K/1yr) you will have an oil with higher HTHS which shears less and has better film thickness. Looks like a winner in my eyes.

 

[Fredxt]

I'm a RP fan myself but would not tout a "study" they conducted. As i wouldn't for any other brand doing the same.

I have never used RP, but I like when someone compares their product against other major players instead of comparing it to the lowest bar of "conventional" oil

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't know. Why did they omit it (I see no reason)? I see RP HPS 5w30 100C viscosity is 11.09 vs 10.3 for Amsoil SS 5W30 so it's heavier but HTHS is 3.8 vs 3.11 for Amsoil, it's even higher than Amsoils next SS weitgh 0w40 (3.76, 14.8 viscosity at 100C). An 8% extra viscosity that comes with 22% more HTHS, seems like a good tradeoff (to me). Also they seem to be more shear stable so cannot say it's just VII and will be depleted (at least within OEM OCI).

- If you look at ILSAC oils, the HTHS for a 5W-30 is always around 3-3.1cP.
- If you look at Euro A3/B4 oils, the HTHS for a 5W-30 is always around 3.5-3.8cP, which is the same as you see for 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40

So, if you are trying to sell your product as having superior "film strength", don't display HTHS, then compare it to oils with significantly lower HTHS and voila! Bonus points for using a test designed for gear oils to really lay on the grift:

This test method covers the determination of the load-carrying capacity of lubricating fluids by means of the Timken Extreme Pressure Test.

On the shear stability claims, this is the diesel nozzle test designed for screening VII's, it's not designed to replicate in-service conditions.

5.2 This test method is used for quality control purposes by manufacturers of polymeric lubricant additives and their customers.

Basically, this oil is not targeted at the same applications as an ILSAC 5W-30, which is what both the M1 EP 5W-30 and the AMSOIL SS 5W-30 are. Adverts like this count on end user ignorance to not be aware of, or understand that distinction.

A comparable product that could have been included instead would have been Redline 5W-30:

Ignoring of course the dubious testing methods.

 

[OVERKILL]

I have never used RP, but I like when someone compares their product against other major players instead of comparing it to the lowest bar of "conventional" oil

Cool, so you bring your Savage .22LR and I'll bring my $12,000 .338LM and we can do some 1,000 yard shooting. Both are major brands of rifle, so no problem there, right?

 

[edyvw]

oh I see.


I don't know. Why did they omit it (I see no reason)? I see RP HPS 5w30 100C viscosity is 11.09 vs 10.3 for Amsoil SS 5W30 so it's heavier but HTHS is 3.8 vs 3.11 for Amsoil, it's even higher than Amsoils next SS weitgh 0w40 (3.76, 14.8 viscosity at 100C). An 8% extra viscosity that comes with 22% more HTHS, seems like a good tradeoff (to me). Also they seem to be more shear stable so cannot say it's just VII and will be depleted (at least within OEM OCI).


Yeah, might not be able to find more data.
So for now we take the blenders claim at the face value RP does not claim long OCI which means for one extra OC a year (lets say at 10K/6mo instead of 25K/1yr) you will have an oil with higher HTHS which shears less and has better film thickness. Looks like a winner in my eyes.

You need to familiarize yourself with ILSAC, ACEA oils, European oils, European approvals etc. You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Fredxt]

- If you look at ISLAC oils, the HTHS for a 5W-30 is always around 3-3.1cP.
- If you look at Euro A3/B4 oils, the HTHS for a 5W-30 is always around 3.5-3.8cP, which is the same as you see for 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40

So, if you are trying to sell your product as having superior "film strength", don't display HTHS, then compare it to oils with significantly lower HTHS and voila! Bonus points for using a test designed for gear oils to really lay on the grift:

Your argument is that because of following all ILSAC GF-6 guidelines:

https://www.api.org/-/media/files/certification/engine-oil-diesel/publications/api%201509-%2022nd%20edition.pdf

other brands (Amsoil,Mobile here) had to be more limited in their formulation and thus lower performance in the tested dimensions. Which is a valid argument for those who need it. But lets consider a car that's not under warranty and it's not turbo charged, then isn't more HTHS for the same weight grade the better? They clearly say that HPS is not for cars under warranty. What might be the biggest benefit of ILSAC GF-5 for example that this RP HPS does not bring to the table? Is ILSAC GF-5 giving me some guarantee that the car will last 10,000hrs which they HPS doesn't?

On the shear stability claims, this is the diesel nozzle test designed for screening VII's, it's not designed to replicate in-service conditions.


Basically, this oil is not targeted at the same applications as an ILSAC 5W-30, which is what both the M1 EP 5W-30 and the AMSOIL SS 5W-30 are. Adverts like this count on end user ignorance to not be aware of, or understand that distinction.

I need to read more about these, thanks. What test would be a valid shear stability for motor oil then?

A comparable product that could have been included instead would have been Redline 5W-30:
View attachment 190065

Of course, the more data the better, even though their HTHS is more than Red line as well (3.8 vs 3.7).

 

[Fredxt]

You need to familiarize yourself with ILSAC, ACEA oils, European oils, European approvals etc. You are comparing apples and oranges.

I am reading their requirements here

https://www.api.org/-/media/files/certification/engine-oil-diesel/publications/api%201509-%2022nd%20edition.pdf

What does GF-5 bring to the table that RP HPS does not?

 

[OVERKILL]

Your argument is that because of following all ILSAC GF-6 guidelines:

https://www.api.org/-/media/files/certification/engine-oil-diesel/publications/api%201509-%2022nd%20edition.pdf

other brands (Amsoil,Mobile here) had to be more limited in their formulation and thus lower performance in the tested dimensions. Which is a valid argument for those who need it. But lets consider a car that's not under warranty and it's not turbo charged, then isn't more HTHS for the same weight grade the better?

You seem to be under the illusion that we are all working within a single box here where the reality is that the AMSOIL and Mobil 1 products are in one box (ILSAC) while the RP product isn't in a box at all, because it's not compliant with any specification. It is most similar to an A3/B4 lube, which I provided a few examples of, and is likely what its formulation approach mirrors.

They clearly say that HPS is not for cars under warranty. What might be the biggest benefit of ILSAC GF-5 for example that this RP HPS does not bring to the table? Is ILSAC GF-5 giving me some guarantee that the car will last 10,000hrs which they HPS doesn't?

ILSAC guarantees energy conserving and fuel efficiency, this is why the oils have reduced HTHS. On top of that, phosphorous is capped at 800ppm by the API for anything newer than API SL in the xW-30 grades and below.

If you want a higher HTHS, you can run a 0W-40 or any A3/B4 oil, which is in the same ballpark and will actually have formal approvals (if that's what you are looking for).

I need to read more about these, thanks. What test would be a valid shear stability for motor oil then?

The Euros just use a "stay in grade" requirement. A bit of visc loss isn't an issue. Oils have to be formulated to not overly thicken in use too, so there's a balancing act with shear and oxidative thickening.

Of course, the more data the better, even though their HTHS is more than Red line as well (3.8 vs 3.7).

And that means what? Both are above the A3/B4 3.5cP limit. AMSOIL Dominator 60 has an HTHS of 7.7cP, what's that going to do for you in your application?

 

[edyvw]

I am reading their requirements here

https://www.api.org/-/media/files/certification/engine-oil-diesel/publications/api%201509-%2022nd%20edition.pdf

What does GF-5 bring to the table that RP HPS does not?

GF-5 is specification. HPS is specific oil.
As I said, familiarize yourself, don’t expect others to jump answering to you bcs. you feel someone owes you an answer.
By the way, I have no clue what RP HPS is. Don’t care.

 

[Fredxt]

You seem to be under the illusion that we are all working within a single box here where the reality is that the AMSOIL and Mobil 1 products are in one box (ILSAC) while the RP product isn't in a box at all, because it's not compliant with any specification. It is most similar to an A3/B4 lube, which I provided a few examples of, and is likely what its formulation approach mirrors.

ILSAC guarantees energy conserving and fuel efficiency, this is why the oils have reduced HTHS. On top of that, phosphorous is capped at 800ppm by the API for anything newer than API SL in the xW-30 grades and below.

If you want a higher HTHS, you can run a 0W-40 or any A3/B4 oil, which is in the same ballpark and will actually have formal approvals (if that's what you are looking for).

Good points on energy conservation and phosphorous cap, which I don't care about either. ILSAC approvals seem like minimum requirement on some dimensions that are not what the dimension the consumer cares about. I am not sure if there is any consumer advocacy groups in their standard meetings pushing for collecting data and proving their oils + OEM OCI actually works, which is seemingly not.
Need to check more on what these ILSAC guys do, but my knowledge from other industries is that companies sit in the standard meeting and each tries to push their product while keeps other out and the outcome is something in the middle. What about the consumer? Oh, you have you warranty period
I need to make a thread to discuss ILSAC's failure to protect the consumer.

The Euros just use a "stay in grade" requirement. A bit of visc loss isn't an issue. Oils have to be formulated to not overly thicken in use too, so there's a balancing act with shear and oxidative thickening.

Thanks, I understand both sides of the viscosity drop and increase. Basically here we want to reside to UOA then.

And that means what? Both are above the A3/B4 3.5cP limit. AMSOIL Dominator 60 has an HTHS of 7.7cP, what's that going to do for you in your application?

Amsoil Racing oils are not recommended for street cars.

 

[Fredxt]

GF-5 is specification. HPS is specific oil.
As I said, familiarize yourself, don’t expect others to jump answering to you bcs. you feel someone owes you an answer.
By the way, I have no clue what RP HPS is. Don’t care.

As a grown up person you should know that you cannot tell what other people "feel".

 

[edyvw]

As a grown up person you should know that you cannot tell what other people "feel".

Geez man. Then keep asking.

 

[Odd_Ball]

Royal Purple is bar none the best purple oil in the world today.

If I were in the market for a purple oil, it's what I would buy without hesitation.

 

[subzerospeed]

I'm at 3.2 hp/cube so I better drop my HPL and get on this purple stuff

Welcome to the big boys small disp club lmao

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Never gave Royal purple a thought I mean its like an ugly girl with cleavage showing ill look but its coming home with me. Lol jk

 

[facility1]

Royal Purple pcmo is a fine oil,like many others on the market ,a while back i bought four jugs (on sale) to add to my collection and in use now,engine sounds fine,like all the other oils i used in past,not sure why some people put this oil down just because of the color ?? ,if you can get some at a sale price go for it ,,,,it works good in your engine.